Possible Hydrolock - Cause

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
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B2150 with V1200-5B engine
I have a possible hydrolock on my hands. Yesterday I started my tractor, let it warm up a little at a high idle, then went to hook up to my 3-pt finish mower. Noticed the tach was jumping around weird, needle went way past max RPM (engine did not), but hour meter clicked over at reasonable duration so just assume I need to oil it better but I swear I oiled it as recommended just a couple months ago. Shut off the tractor to hook up mower, restarted with no issue and drove mower to my work area to tend to bearings and blades. Hour or so later wanted to raise the mower and restarted fine but LOTS of white smoke of the unburned fuel variety which didn't clear up as I upped the RPM - though maybe somehow, someway I had air enter the system; shut it down. Two hours later I went to restart the mower and engine acted hydrocked so didn't hit the key again. Pushed the tractor into the garage as I wasn't feeling well at all (not tractor fume related, haven't felt great for a few days).

I'm positive it's fuel that caused the smoke by the smell, not coolant. I have about 0.7 hours on a "rebuild" of the engine - new sleeves, pistons, rings, bearings, etc. Last time I used the tractor was the first start, so tried to put a good, varied load on the engine for a solid 30 minutes. Let it cool for a couple of days then retorqued the head and reset the valves. Maybe 30 engine hours ago had the injectors checked/repaired/etc. by a fuel injection shop, not a mechanic. At the same time, had the cylinder head replaced and gone through by a shop that specializes in cylinder heads (Noland's Cylinder Head Service in Kansas City).

The fuel level in the tank is almost full, so I'm wondering if I have a faulty delivery valve, injector stuck open, etc. I shut the fuel petcock (it was shut this morning before I started the tractor for the first time). I checked the dipstick after it had sat awhile from my pushing it in the garage and the level was correct. I checked the spill timing last year, and as I recall I actually needed to remove the spacers even after I removed the one injection pump spacer that was there, so does that indicate I need a new injection pump? That my fuel cam is bad? I can't find anything of value in my V1200 engine workshop manual.

Any ideas on what to check for what caused this?

Should probably mention engine was rebuilt because last spring the #1 piston shattered while mowing the yard. I replaced the rod, obviously. Crank checked out good, amazingly. Engine was all checked out dimensionally by an engine machine shop, and found to be great. I measured piston protrusion at reassembly and the metal head gasket shim was found to NOT be required, per the engine manual.
 

Jim L.

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Jun 18, 2014
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Sounds like a possible classic rebuild problem. Take off glow plugs and turn engine by hand to see if coolant comes out.
 

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
34
1
8
64086
Sounds like a possible classic rebuild problem. Take off glow plugs and turn engine by hand to see if coolant comes out.
That's the plan. I won't be surprised if that the issue, but with all the fuel I was smelling as it blew white smoke - and no smell of coolant, which unfortunately as of late I am nearly an expert - I'm not betting on it being coolant, either. I think I want it to be coolant.

Side note, fuel filter was changed when engine was reinstalled. Newer lift pump, and vent lines were checked to be all clear back to the tank. Fresh fuel, new coolant, newer thermostat and water pump. Engine did not overheat yesterday.
 

JerryMT

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Equipment
Kubota M4500, NH TD95D,Ford 4610
Jun 17, 2017
528
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43
The Palouse - North Idaho
B2150 with V1200-5B engine
I have a possible hydrolock on my hands. Yesterday I started my tractor, let it warm up a little at a high idle, then went to hook up to my 3-pt finish mower. Noticed the tach was jumping around weird, needle went way past max RPM (engine did not), but hour meter clicked over at reasonable duration so just assume I need to oil it better but I swear I oiled it as recommended just a couple months ago. Shut off the tractor to hook up mower, restarted with no issue and drove mower to my work area to tend to bearings and blades. Hour or so later wanted to raise the mower and restarted fine but LOTS of white smoke of the unburned fuel variety which didn't clear up as I upped the RPM - though maybe somehow, someway I had air enter the system; shut it down. Two hours later I went to restart the mower and engine acted hydrocked so didn't hit the key again. Pushed the tractor into the garage as I wasn't feeling well at all (not tractor fume related, haven't felt great for a few days).

I'm positive it's fuel that caused the smoke by the smell, not coolant. I have about 0.7 hours on a "rebuild" of the engine - new sleeves, pistons, rings, bearings, etc. Last time I used the tractor was the first start, so tried to put a good, varied load on the engine for a solid 30 minutes. Let it cool for a couple of days then retorqued the head and reset the valves. Maybe 30 engine hours ago had the injectors checked/repaired/etc. by a fuel injection shop, not a mechanic. At the same time, had the cylinder head replaced and gone through by a shop that specializes in cylinder heads (Noland's Cylinder Head Service in Kansas City).

The fuel level in the tank is almost full, so I'm wondering if I have a faulty delivery valve, injector stuck open, etc. I shut the fuel petcock (it was shut this morning before I started the tractor for the first time). I checked the dipstick after it had sat awhile from my pushing it in the garage and the level was correct. I checked the spill timing last year, and as I recall I actually needed to remove the spacers even after I removed the one injection pump spacer that was there, so does that indicate I need a new injection pump? That my fuel cam is bad? I can't find anything of value in my V1200 engine workshop manual.

Any ideas on what to check for what caused this?

Should probably mention engine was rebuilt because last spring the #1 piston shattered while mowing the yard. I replaced the rod, obviously. Crank checked out good, amazingly. Engine was all checked out dimensionally by an engine machine shop, and found to be great. I measured piston protrusion at reassembly and the metal head gasket shim was found to NOT be required, per the engine manual.
If the engine was hydrolocked, I doubt you would not have been able to move it. It could be something as a result of the re-build. Were he bearing pre-lubed?

Can you remove the glo plugs and turn the engine over with a wrench on the harmonic balancer?
 

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
34
1
8
64086
If the engine was hydrolocked, I doubt you would not have been able to move it. It could be something as a result of the re-build. Were he bearing pre-lubed?

Can you remove the glo plugs and turn the engine over with a wrench on the harmonic balancer?
Everything was prelubed, even cranked some before putting in the glow plugs. I was able to move the tractor, I had the clutch pushed in and in neutral, so not sure what you mean.

Still feeling under the weather so haven't had the motivation this evening to start working on it. It's a pain to remove glow plugs on this engine, lots of stuff in the way.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Sounds like you very possibly have a bad injector.
I'd pull either the injectors or the glow plugs and had turn over the engine and look for fuel.
 
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JerryMT

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Kubota M4500, NH TD95D,Ford 4610
Jun 17, 2017
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The Palouse - North Idaho
Everything was prelubed, even cranked some before putting in the glow plugs. I was able to move the tractor, I had the clutch pushed in and in neutral, so not sure what you mean.

Still feeling under the weather so haven't had the motivation this evening to start working on it. It's a pain to remove glow plugs on this engine, lots of stuff in the way.
Poor english on my part. Should have said "... I doubt you would not have been able to move it....." i.e you wouldn't be able to roll the engine over.
 

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
34
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you wouldn't be able to roll the engine over.
That certainly makes sense, I just wasn't sure what you meant. I just pushed it in the garage and stopped for the day. Thankfully feeling much better today, so perhaps will dive into this more after the kids go to bed.
 

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
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1
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64086
Sounds like you very possibly have a bad injector.
I hope you're right, pulling injectors is a cake walk compared to other tasks. By the time I remove enough parts to pull all the glow plugs, it's not much more work to pull the head.

Would a dirty injector possibly cause this? I had brand new caps over each injector and the delivery valves while the lines were off, the line ends were taped, and felt confident in cleaning all the lines 'just in case' before reassembling (copious brake cleaner and clean air blast), but one never knows.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Usually not caused by dirt but by damage inside the injector.
When you pull them note if any are wet.
 
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LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
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Number three was wet, precombustion chamber soaked as well. Of course with the diesel that has come out of the lines as I removed them, everything smells like diesel now. It certainly doesn't look like bright green coolant, but it would be coolant in a precombustion chamber. By far the cleanest chamber of the four!

I wanted to send my endoscope in there, but the new phone of course has a different type of connector. Jeff Bezos says he'll have an adapter to me tomorrow.
 

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
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Pulled the head last night. Sure enough, gasket bad between 3&4, who knows where else. $115 + tax for a Kubota gasket.

Also, I get to rering the engine at over $100 per cylinder for Kubota rings. Absolutely outrageous what parts cost for these tractors.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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You need to check to see if it's bend a connection rod.
And you need to make sure the head is not cracked.
Turn the engine till that cylinder comes up to The top note how high it comes up, then compare it to all the rest, if one or more does not come up to the same height it's bent a rod and you'll need to replace it.
 

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
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You need to check to see if it's bend a connection rod.
And you need to make sure the head is not cracked.
Turn the engine till that cylinder comes up to The top note how high it comes up, then compare it to all the rest, if one or more does not come up to the same height it's bent a rod and you'll need to replace it.
Yes, I did do all of that. Head is still flat, too. Thankfully my Chinese knock-off starter doesn't have as much giddy-up-and-go and the offending cylinder must have been near the top of its stroke so the engine didn't have much momentum when it hit.
 

LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
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Why are you replacing rings with .7 hours on them?
Because I lost the gamble on using the Chinese knockoff rings that came with my Kumar Bros. rebuild kit, and every cylinder is now scored. Therefore, I get to split the tractor again so I can rehone the cylinders without contaminating the main bearings.

I was very careful with gapping the rings to be dead-on in the middle of the factory-new acceptable range, and it was for naught. The oil-control rings all seemed very stiff to me when they went in, but thought perhaps with their shape they would wear in quickly, by design. Instead, on at least one cylinder the oil control ring actually had some parts broken off. Cylinder #3 had the coolant in the cylinder, but I want to say it did NOT have the ring damage.
 
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LorenS

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B2150HSD, Land Pride AT2572, Koyker 120 FEL
Mar 22, 2021
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As an update to this, I obtained a new Kubota head gasket and torqued everything down, set the valves, etc. Before installing the intake and exhaust manifolds, and the glow plugs wanted to spin the engine over to get everything oiled. Coolant shot out of both the intake and exhaust ports, and pressurized the cooling all in a matter maybe 5 seconds of cranking.


Removed head and has - not surprisingly - been found to be "very bad". No visible issues even with the valves removed, so I have to imagine it was in/around the injection cup area. Reman'd head on the way. Crazy how much these things cost.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
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As an update to this, I obtained a new Kubota head gasket and torqued everything down, set the valves, etc. Before installing the intake and exhaust manifolds, and the glow plugs wanted to spin the engine over to get everything oiled. Coolant shot out of both the intake and exhaust ports, and pressurized the cooling all in a matter maybe 5 seconds of cranking.


Removed head and has - not surprisingly - been found to be "very bad". No visible issues even with the valves removed, so I have to imagine it was in/around the injection cup area. Reman'd head on the way. Crazy how much these things cost.
It will be cracked from the pre chamber to the intake or exhaust valve.