BX - replacing unknown coolant

[lynnmor]

Unrelated to the thread but They make ph neutralizers for low ph they use calcite to brings the ph up. The calcite dissolves thus bringing the ph up I work for a water treatment company and could get you more info if you are interested.this would make ur life easier for fixtures and pipes in the future acidic h20 is no joke for copper and brass

I have looked into that but didn’t buy the system since it would make the water even harder so a water softener would need to be added. I didn’t want a basement full of water treatment to maintain. I have a simple DI system for the final rinse when washing cars. I use distilled water in the coolant systems in my shop and all vehicles. The price of distilled water did go up to over a dollar most places and Walmart has it for about $1.22 nationwide, so there is no reason to use anything else, unless a person is cheap beyond comprehension.

 

[cthomas]

The color of the coolant means nothing anymore. GM dexcool is orange, Kia is purple(unless early then I think it is orange), Audi/VW is orange/blue/purple(depends on year model)Mercedes is pink, and the rest I have forgotten or am mistaken in the others. Even GM hybrids/electric vehicles take a "special coolant" that is twice the money, but was told in training that it is just dexcool and distrilled water(premixed) as some dealerships(been at a couple of them) that just use the "free crap water out of the tap"(they will not use tap water to make the coffee) so what does that tell you? It is more important to use the same technology of coolant unless flushing. Here is a chart of some of the different technologies.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The coolant branded and sold by Kubota is a POAT (aka P-HOAT) formulation. It is a n extended life phosohated hybrid organic acid technology chemistry that is silicate, nitrate, borate, and amine free. It is the same chemistry used by Asian automobile manufacturers.

Kubota dyes their coolant green but it IS NOT a convenional "GREEN" silicate based inorganic acid technology (IAT) coolant. Kubota manuals now specify an extended life ethylene glycol coolant which explicitly rules out use of old school IAT formulations. Other than that any ELC formulation seems to be OK.

Asian specific POAT formulations can also be purchased in a rainbow of different colors marketed for use in Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, etc. vehicles.

Dan

 

[trial and error]

I have looked into that but didn’t buy the system since it would make the water even harder so a water softener would need to be added. I didn’t want a basement full of water treatment to maintain. I have a simple DI system for the final rinse when washing cars. I use distilled water in the coolant systems in my shop and all vehicles. The price of distilled water did go up to over a dollar most places and Walmart has it for about $1.22 nationwide, so there is no reason to use anything else, unless a person is cheap beyond comprehension.

I dont want to stray too far off topic here but I want to clear a few things up that may be beneficial to you or other members that read this.
First off I don't work for Culligan, and at least in my area they are one of the biggest contributors of customers to our small bussiness becuase they (culligan) put on a dog and pony show and end up trying to sell .customers very expensive proprietary systems that some customers don't even need.
In the case of modern ph balancers for rasing ph there are literally no moving parts to maintain. It is a softner sized tank filled part way with a calcite and magox mix that the water flows through and as the water flows it dissolves the compounds at a very slow rate and raises the ph. These in most cases require a 1x a year check and top off some customers get away with 2-3 years depending on exact ph and water usage. There is literally no maintenance for the customer. Also just becuase a customer adds a ph balancer does not nessacarily mean there hardness will go up. We have tons of the balancers in place that have no other system. That hardness raised by ph balancer sounds like a "Culligan myth."
Now yes if you already have borderline hard water or naturally hard water a softner would likely need to be added to get the full benefits. But the ph balancer will not raise the levels enough in and of itself in 99.9 percent of cases.
Softners are also virtually no customer maintence add salt set the time of day that's it and they only use salt every x amount of gallons if properly installed with a water meter.
Our softners cost roughly 1700 installed out the door all parts and labour. And the ph balancer cost significantly less (I would have to look up the exact amount) to install since it has nopowerhead and thus no moving parts.
Even if both of these where installed by a proper water treatment company it would likely cost less then replacing every fixture pipe and fitting in a house and still not fixing the actual issue. They would solve the problem at its root (or at least close when the h2o enters the house) and eliminate the worry of having burst pipes, clogged fixtures messed up water heaters boilers dishwashers washing machines etc.
I know I strayed way off topic here but I think it's important for others to have all the facts from someone who works with this stuff every day and is employed by a small family company who has been around for over 30 years with no advertising (this doesn't count lol). At the end of the day I'm not a salesman I'm a tech I have no dog in the show, and I don't get paid on commission so I pride myself in honesty.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

If you need 'distilled water', just collect the condensate from your home A/C unit. That water is water from the air and similar in quality to bought bottled distilled water,just not recommended for drinking according to some.

 

[lynnmor]

I dont want to stray too far off topic here but I want to clear a few things up that may be beneficial to you or other members that read this.
First off I don't work for Culligan, and at least in my area they are one of the biggest contributors of customers to our small bussiness becuase they (culligan) put on a dog and pony show and end up trying to sell .customers very expensive proprietary systems that some customers don't even need.
In the case of modern ph balancers for rasing ph there are literally no moving parts to maintain. It is a softner sized tank filled part way with a calcite and magox mix that the water flows through and as the water flows it dissolves the compounds at a very slow rate and raises the ph. These in most cases require a 1x a year check and top off some customers get away with 2-3 years depending on exact ph and water usage. There is literally no maintenance for the customer. Also just becuase a customer adds a ph balancer does not nessacarily mean there hardness will go up. We have tons of the balancers in place that have no other system. That hardness raised by ph balancer sounds like a "Culligan myth."
Now yes if you already have borderline hard water or naturally hard water a softner would likely need to be added to get the full benefits. But the ph balancer will not raise the levels enough in and of itself in 99.9 percent of cases.
Softners are also virtually no customer maintence add salt set the time of day that's it and they only use salt every x amount of gallons if properly installed with a water meter.
Our softners cost roughly 1700 installed out the door all parts and labour. And the ph balancer cost significantly less (I would have to look up the exact amount) to install since it has nopowerhead and thus no moving parts.
Even if both of these where installed by a proper water treatment company it would likely cost less then replacing every fixture pipe and fitting in a house and still not fixing the actual issue. They would solve the problem at its root (or at least close when the h2o enters the house) and eliminate the worry of having burst pipes, clogged fixtures messed up water heaters boilers dishwashers washing machines etc.
I know I strayed way off topic here but I think it's important for others to have all the facts from someone who works with this stuff every day and is employed by a small family company who has been around for over 30 years with no advertising (this doesn't count lol). At the end of the day I'm not a salesman I'm a tech I have no dog in the show, and I don't get paid on commission so I pride myself in honesty.

Thank you for that. To bring it back closer to the topic, your contribution should convince many of the importance of water quality in a cooling system. While treated water is important, one can bypass any issues by using distilled water since it has virtually nothing in it to cause problems.

 

[GeoHorn]

The color of the coolant is an industry-standard.

That is Not Correct. There is NO “industry standard” color for antifreeze indicating Anything other than pretty colors.

Here’s another tidbit: In general, coolants should be considered compatible – that is, mixing will not have catastrophic results.

Coolants 101 | Chevron Lubricants (US)

www.chevronlubricants.com

 

[The Evil Twin]

The color of the coolant means nothing anymore. GM dexcool is orange, Kia is purple(unless early then I think it is orange), Audi/VW is orange/blue/purple(depends on year model)Mercedes is pink, and the rest I have forgotten or am mistaken in the others. Even GM hybrids/electric vehicles take a "special coolant" that is twice the money, but was told in training that it is just dexcool and distrilled water(premixed) as some dealerships(been at a couple of them) that just use the "free crap water out of the tap"(they will not use tap water to make the coffee) so what does that tell you? It is more important to use the same technology of coolant unless flushing. Here is a chart of some of the different technologies.

Don't get me started of Ford Diesels.......Gold, orange, yellow...it's like a bag of Skittles.

 

[GeoHorn]

If you need 'distilled water', just collect the condensate from your home A/C unit. That water is water from the air and similar in quality to bought bottled distilled water,just not recommended for drinking according to some.

That’s an interesting idea! Thanks for it.

But it. often does contain spores, fungus and algae, …sometimes in concentration depending upon local humidity.

Distilled water is cheap…typically $1/gal from WM.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Spot on @GeoHorn . Condensate will also contain the dirt, dust and pollen that made it past the air filter. Some always will. No matter how good your filtration is.
Just out of curiosity, @dje , why not just go back to the K branded coolant? Then you know it's the right stuff. It is not priced that much differently from others. At least in the US it isn't. $21/ gal concentrate.

 

[GeoHorn]

Re: the excellent treatise by “trial and error” post #24:

I own/live in a house built in what was once called “the country” in 1952. It was built as a hunting lodge by a wealthy auto dealer. I bought it in ‘95 having leased it for a few years first.

It is served by its’ own well that was thoroughly tested in the ‘60s. There is near-zero treatment….it comes out of the ground, thru a large paper-filter, into a pressure-tank….then 100 yds via buried galvanized pipe to the house where it goes thru a “whole-house” wound-string filter. I change the whole-house filter annually…mostly because it collects rust particles and turns brown.

It’s clear, taste is indistinguishable from bottled water….and it suds-up just fine…and washes soap off of you in the shower just fine. (I used to live in the Bryan/College-Station area where the water was so soft you could never feel like you got all the soap off. Yuck.)….

The. only “problem” with my well-water is it is brought up from a limestone aquifer, …so it is hard. It leaves spots on glasses in the dishwasher. It eventually causes the coffee-maker to require a dose of vinegar to return it to a 10-minute coffee maker…from a 30+ minute maker. We also occasionally throw a cup of vinegar into an empty dishwasher and send it thru a cycle. (DW sometimes takes ALL the glasses in the house and runs them thru a cycle with some vinegar tossed-in for clarity.)
We do both about every two months.…going on 30+ years now without difficulties. Every other year I remove the shower-heads and soak them in vinegar for an hour which returns them to original spray pattern/flow-rate.

This house was built with galvanized plumbing, which is now 70+ years old. Although it concerns me… I’ve had little/no plumbing problems. (Replace old-style faucet-washers. Occasional change of 70-yr old outdoor faucets.)

I HAVE added some plumbing…a mix of copper (hot water recirculation system), PVC (extend service to an out-building), and PEX (recent remodel of a guest bath and utility-room).

I’m pretty sure there’s lots of calcium build-up inside those original galvanized pipes.…but there’s no detected reduction of flow-rate. Fortunately the majority of all that original plumbing is beneath a pier/beam main-section of the house.

In past years, I’ve used tap/well water in radiators and W/S washers without problems. But this discussion has influenced me.

I plan to use distilled water in my tractor cooling system change this month. (I think this might be it’s first coolant change since it was first purchased by PO’s in 1996. It has almost 700 hours on it).

I’ll use Prestone ethylene-glycol type.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I’ll use Prestone ethylene-glycol type.

Would that be Prestone's IAT, OAT, HOAT, POAT, or SI-HOAT ethylene glycol type?

Dan

 

[GeoHorn]

Would that be Prestone's IAT, OAT, HOAT, POAT, or SI-HOAT ethylene glycol type?

Dan

Whatever is in those yellow jugs which claims to be compatible with all other types (and with which the link I provided earlier from Chevron on Coolant 101 agrees) ….those 3 jugs have been sitting here since I bought them 6 years ago on-sale at Autozone

There is one Caveat I’ll offer in this discussion: I also own a sleeved-diesel JD engine in a compactor-roller. That cooling system actually has a spin-on coolant filter that introduces pelletized SCA’s to the coolant to prevent sleeve “cavitation”. I recently changed that coolant and filter when I had to replace a water pump. I use a specific “SCA-formulated” PEAK-brand anti-freeze in it. It was purple for whatever that is worth.
But that is a JD sleeved engine…NOT a Kubota which doesn’t need that stuff.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Whatever is in those yellow jugs which claims to be compatible with all other types (and with which the link I provided earlier from Chevron on Coolant 101 agrees) ….those 3 jugs have been sitting here since I bought them 6 years ago on-sale at Autozone

There is one Caveat I’ll offer in this discussion: I also own a sleeved-diesel JD engine in a compactor-roller. That cooling system actually has a spin-on coolant filter that introduces pelletized SCA’s to the coolant to prevent sleeve “cavitation”. I recently changed that coolant and filter when I had to replace a water pump. I use a specific “SCA-formulated” PEAK-brand anti-freeze in it. It was purple for whatever that is worth.
But that is a JD sleeved engine…NOT a Kubota which doesn’t need that stuff.

That "stuff" is nitrates and SCAs are just additive replenishers. Its a way to avoid a full coolant change.

The Prestone universal is just one of many universal extended life coolants. As such they all use some (secret) form of Organic Acid Technology and you dont really know what you are putting in. I am sure its just fine but I prefer a little more disclosure.

My main point is these are almost ALL ethlyne glycol based coolants and the differences are in the additive chemistry. PG based coolants are few and far between.

Dan

 

[ejb11235]

A few years back I did some reading on coolant chemistries ... not super deep but enough to understand some basics about what makes coolants different, how buffers and materials interact, and why coolant should be changed out at the recommended intervals. I eventually decided to go with the factory coolants so I would't have to think about compatibility. Distilled water plus Toyota coolant in the old 22RE, Kubota coolant in the BX23S.

 

[trial and error]

"I used to live in the Bryan/College-Station area where the water was so soft you could never feel like you got all the soap off. Yuck.)…."

I get that, we always tell customers that "if the there is no soap suds left on you, then the soap is off." And also to "use less soap then they are used to"

 

[fried1765]

Walmart sells gallon jugs of distilled water for about a buck.

Nearest Walmart to me is 50+ miles.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Nearest Walmart to me is 50+ miles.

Distilled water might be one of the easiest things in this world to come by. This commercially manufactured and "patent pending" distilled water generator has been in my family for over a century and it still works as good as the day it was purchased. Grandpappy was very fond of it

Dan

 

[fried1765]

Distilled water might be one of the easiest things in this world to come by. This commercially manufactured and "patent pending" distilled water generator has been in my family for over a century and it still works as good as the day it was purchased. Grandpappy was very fond of it

Dan

View attachment 104489

You think he was really distilling......water ????

 

[dje]

Spot on @GeoHorn . Condensate will also contain the dirt, dust and pollen that made it past the air filter. Some always will. No matter how good your filtration is.
Just out of curiosity, @dje , why not just go back to the K branded coolant? Then you know it's the right stuff. It is not priced that much differently from others. At least in the US it isn't. $21/ gal concentrate.

It was too inconvenient to source the original Kubota coolant - rural Canada . I can get all of the other Kubota fluids & parts shipped, but not the coolant.

This is the product I ended up using:

OEM Extended Life BLUE Antifreeze/Coolant - Recochem

OEM Extended Life BLUE Antifreeze/Coolant meets or exceeds performance requirements ASTM D3306 and JIS K2234. This long service life product is based on a proprietary extended life corrosion inhibitor technology that is free of silicates, borates, nitrites and amines. It protects coolant system...

www.recochem.com

It was available at the local Canadian Tire.

Like the original Kubota coolant, it's a phosphate-based OAT ethylene glycol coolant.