TG1860 with RCK54TG cutting deck. Am I crazy?

[Highgrass23]

Hi all, this is something I just picked up, for what I thought was a pretty good deal. Even with 900+ hours on the meter. Needed a battery and belt according to the “second” owner.
A little about myself. I’ve been in auto repair since about 17-18 years old. I’m 67 now and have had my own business for 35 years, this past October.
The man had a battery charger and we charged the battery enough to get it started and loaded on my utility trailer. Once back at my shop I find the broken generator field and battery light feed wires. The “T” connector was missing and had been rigged with spade lug crimp connectors. Easy enough to add new crimp connectors until I come up with a real connector. One problem solved.
Now on to the belt. A very worn out HST. I start investigating a replacement. Some of the interweb search’s pull up very reputable dealers. But they all show a HST44
or K1211-1210. Same issue at my local Kubota dealer. This is a narrow 1/2 X 44” belt. Possible it’s for a smaller cutting deck. I don’t know. There’s quite a mystery in that my worn out belt is in fact a 5/8 X 60”.
Back to reality, I quit fooling with the local dealer. They could not even look up my deck by model and serial number. I find a replacement at Tractor Supply.
Here’s where everything I know and have learned from a seemingly lifelong automotive tech goes awry.
According to the parts illustrations and even a search function post here on this forum, one specifically made on June 30, 2017. Pg. 12.
A member asked a question and posted photos of the belt, tensioner, pulley, spring, rod and pivot bracket.
As anything can clearly see, why and what was the factory thinking?
The tensioner is technically being pulled away from the belt.
I just can’t grasp the idea or concept of this design. I haven’t done any further work. “Meaning” I have not put on this new belt and tried any attempts to run and mow with it.
Long winded, but tried to add all of the information I could.
Thanks to the Administrators for allowing my presence here. And possibly some members/tech’s that could look into this scenario.
Jim in Texas.

 

[Russell King]

Not able to answer but can suggest that you add about four more short posts and then you will be able to post a picture of the deck.

it is possible that it is a different deck so you should find a nameplate on the deck and verify the deck model number if you haven’t already

Added by edit
see the illustrated parts list here by tractor or deck model

Kubota Tractor Corporation - Illustrated Parts List

- K-PAD - Parts Lists - Illustrated Parts Lists - diagrams

apps.kubotausa.com

 

[ve9aa]

I am trying to load pix from my cell phone but think my provider is down.
The tensioner can go one of two ways, but it *IS* being pushed into the belt.

If I can get pix to load, I'll show pages from the parts manual and notes I've made over the last 17-18yrs of
ownership of my TG1860, which is knocking on 1000hrs

 

[ve9aa]

 

[Highgrass23]

Ok, I got it lined out. Drove out to the river to check my buddies machine out. Here’s what I found without pictures. Someone back down the line had removed the tension bracket. When they re-installed it, the spring tab that faces up was installed incorrectly. The tab should be aft of the mid frame crossover, not in front. So long story short the idler pulley should be closer to the PTO.
Ve9aa, if I‘d had your hand drawn diagram, it would have been as clear as day.
Thanks, Jim

 

[Highgrass23]

Oh, and another point. my deck being 54” with three blades does take a longer 60” belt.

 

[Highgrass23]

This seems to be an pretty awesome forum. I’m sure I will have more inquiries about the mower. Seems to have had some amateurs with the wrong end of a wrench, get ahold of it, no doubt.
It has one gimbal bearing making noise. Grease didn’t help. No biggie, I’ll git ‘er done.
I corrected the right turning steering wheel issue promptly after recognizing the no charging issue. Generic “T” connector ordered for the Denso generator.
It’s missing all anti-scalping wheels, shouldered bolts, hardware and one complete pin.
Deck height is not correct and the lever plunger has issues.
Electric PTO metal “stop” tab is worn almost completely in two. I’m thinking build it up with a little fast weld. Not sure the cause and effect of heat and current from heli arc ? Wouldn’t want to take out the magnetic coil.
Fuel cap missing center vent.
Quite a few wear items.
Good thing, I didn’t pay much, in it’s condition.
But hey it’s orange. And my shopping cart at a big national dealer is less than 2 bills.

 

[lugbolt]

The mowers that I am least likely to own are :

GR series (any of them)
T1600 (twin cyl diesel)
TG1860 diesel (gas burners were ok, except the power steering pretty much sucks)
and W5021-can't get many parts for them.

You'll grow to love or hate the power steering. It is power steering, yes. It still sucks. It has no "feel" to speak of and because of that alone I find it very hard to mow a straight line. You are constantly fighting the wheel. The steering ratio is slower than christmas as well.

The transmission is robust, until someone decides that it needs a filter change. Then things go crazy. I don't recommend changing it. Suck the fluid out, refill, done if you feel the need.

Belt tensioner? It's a simple design. Not sure what the fuss is about there, but it sounds like you have it figured out. To change a belt on the 54 and 60 I take one of the gearbox brackets off (RH side). Slip the belt through the tensioner, wrap around the gearbox pulley, and you're nearly done. You'll find the easy way eventually.

Yeah the pto clutch limiter. It wears out. You can build it up with tig or mig, take your pick. I'd use a mig if it was me because it's faster. I'd certainly recommend disconnecting the power steering module/motor. I don't think those are available anymore (could be wrong), so you'd want to take precautions with that. Doubt it'd hurt the clutch. Probably not a bad idea to disconnect the battery and maybe the alternator as well, if it's easy enough to get at. Alternators are available still (aftermarket too).

Speaking of gearbox. Better keep any eye on both of them for oil leaking. The deck gearbox, if oil leaks out of it, the box lasts about 5 minutes and self-destructs. The rear gearbox does not usually leak because it's kind of in a different situation but the deck gearboxes do fail.

Deck bearings? Normal deal. Personally if one is loose I do all of them. And invest in a good blade balancer. Those cone things on teh bench top are not accurate. Not at all. Only gets you in the county, not really even in any ballpark just in the county. IF balanced properly, those decks run pretty smooth-and they cut pretty good too.

 

[Highgrass23]

The mowers that I am least likely to own are :

GR series (any of them)
T1600 (twin cyl diesel)
TG1860 diesel (gas burners were ok, except the power steering pretty much sucks)
and W5021-can't get many parts for them.

You'll grow to love or hate the power steering. It is power steering, yes. It still sucks. It has no "feel" to speak of and because of that alone I find it very hard to mow a straight line. You are constantly fighting the wheel. The steering ratio is slower than christmas as well.

The transmission is robust, until someone decides that it needs a filter change. Then things go crazy. I don't recommend changing it. Suck the fluid out, refill, done if you feel the need.

Belt tensioner? It's a simple design. Not sure what the fuss is about there, but it sounds like you have it figured out. To change a belt on the 54 and 60 I take one of the gearbox brackets off (RH side). Slip the belt through the tensioner, wrap around the gearbox pulley, and you're nearly done. You'll find the easy way eventually.

Yeah the pto clutch limiter. It wears out. You can build it up with tig or mig, take your pick. I'd use a mig if it was me because it's faster. I'd certainly recommend disconnecting the power steering module/motor. I don't think those are available anymore (could be wrong), so you'd want to take precautions with that. Doubt it'd hurt the clutch. Probably not a bad idea to disconnect the battery and maybe the alternator as well, if it's easy enough to get at. Alternators are available still (aftermarket too).

Speaking of gearbox. Better keep any eye on both of them for oil leaking. The deck gearbox, if oil leaks out of it, the box lasts about 5 minutes and self-destructs. The rear gearbox does not usually leak because it's kind of in a different situation but the deck gearboxes do fail.

Deck bearings? Normal deal. Personally if one is loose I do all of them. And invest in a good blade balancer. Those cone things on teh bench top are not accurate. Not at all. Only gets you in the county, not really even in any ballpark just in the county. IF balanced properly, those decks run pretty smooth-and they cut pretty good too.

Lug, very good assessment.
Concerning the gearbox, HST drive or whichever it’s called. I did see a lighter SAE looked to me like leak. The drip was collecting on the PTO. I don’t know if it got slung from spinning, but only makes sense that’s what happens. I ran the engine, deck removed and no leak. Drive shaft was spinning, no leak. But then again engaging the PTO would have been useless at this point with no belt. Strange that the cleanest (oil washed) spot seemed to be where the square bottom pivot runs up through the housing. I did wipe it down, and touch the top with my index finger. I could feel down in the recess, but finger came out dry. So now I’m led to believe lower seal ? Btw, it was clean looking oil. Didn’t smell like gear oil.
On the limiter, at least on the PTO flange wear. I would remove the assembly from the machine to build up missing metal.
At this point I’m wondering if the lower seal is the leak, is it doable ? Without a service manual it’s purely speculation.
Is this the 20w/50 that the HST uses? I would like to try to add as much as possible for a short test [mow a small] amount. If the oil I mentioned above is correct, is the vent tube the proper PITA place to try to add ?
Just trying to tackle one problem at the moment. This leak being most important.
Any information would be highly appreciated.
@lugbolt thanks for your time.
Jim

 

[lmichael]

In the HST I believe that machine will call for SUDT2. I would not put anything else

 

[Highgrass23]

Ok,To clarify things a bit. Now that I pull up a parts diagram. I am looking at what’s called the Bevil Gear Case. I need to get back to the shop and look closer at it. If I was correct in assuming the leak was coming from the top left (looking from the front) mine has no part ID #370 [O-ring fitting] nor vent tube, hose, vent cap. Wish I would have took a light and mirror while the deck was dropped.
This was the “hole” I put my index finger into and came out dry. But this was the corner of the case that looked wet / washed clean from oil. Might get lucky and just need a fitting with the correct threads. I have GM Turbo 350 and differential vent valves and fuel hose.
To be continued…
Jim

 

[Highgrass23]

That was it. Stopped the oil slinging problem.

 

[ve9aa]

That was it. Stopped the oil slinging problem.

I "lost" my vent tube one time too. Oil everywhere - 1 belt ruined. Lesson learned. Make sure it's attached well ;-)

Glad you are getting it sorted.

I hear lotsa smack being slung about on these TG1860's (rightfully so in some cases) however I musta got a good one. No trouble with PTO or power steering. The (weak) HST issues were solved with new (slightly shorter) belt and topping up fluid.

Now watch the thing finally die this summer, now that I've said that !

I like 2 things about this mower. Diesel (good on fuel) and comfortable. I mow a "lawn" that's not really a true lawn . It's 2ac of old cow farm field which I have gradually packed down and fixed the biggest holes and pimples on, but it's still rough and bumpy. The rider suspension I find is really nice for my aging back,.

 

[lmichael]

So is the HST belt driven on these through a bevel gear box? Like a large frame Simplicity? I assumed because it looked so much like the G2160 it was simply the same thing with a smaller engine and deck (the G2160 is all shaft driven). Only belts are one small one to run the PTO to mower deck (which is also shaft driven from there), and the one on the deck itself. The HST is shaft from engine back

 

[Highgrass23]

I "lost" my vent tube one time too. Oil everywhere - 1 belt ruined. Lesson learned. Make sure it's attached well ;-)

Glad you are getting it sorted.

I hear lotsa smack being slung about on these TG1860's (rightfully so in some cases) however I musta got a good one. No trouble with PTO or power steering. The (weak) HST issues were solved with new (slightly shorter) belt and topping up fluid.

Now watch the thing finally die this summer, now that I've said that !

I like 2 things about this mower. Diesel (good on fuel) and comfortable. I mow a "lawn" that's not really a true lawn . It's 2ac of old cow farm field which I have gradually packed down and fixed the biggest holes and pimples on, but it's still rough and bumpy. The rider suspension I find is really nice for my aging back,.

Thanks ve9aa.
I can understand now why that part failed. Using the correct size extractor, a nylon or plastic what was left of it anyway came out. Maybe 3/16 thicknesses left.
I always keep new radiator install left over cooler line fittings and such. 1/4” male to 5/16 barbed brass was close. Teflon tape made up for little slop. 5/16 fuel and a vent from an old Ford idle air control valve.
Now the starter wants to be tapped once warmed up. Will have to check this out next. Either worn brushes or high resistance solenoid plunger.

 

[lugbolt]

I'm going off of memory here but I "think" the transmission takes 20w50.