L1801 hydraulics problem.

[TheOldHokie]

Thank you very much for all your precise and useful answers!
I will now assemble all the needed parts, it might take a while as I am quite restricted in my choices here
Thanks again for all!

You are welcome. Good luck sourcing your parts.

Dan

 

[Vigo]

I agree that if you are going to modify the hard line in any way you might as well reroute it to put the loader valve first, and in series with the 3pt valve, rather than in parallel with the 3pt valve and having the 3pt itself ‘blocked off’ through the descent speed adjustment. That is a ‘kludge’ that someone would only do if they WERENT willing to modify the existing plumbing. But now you are!


Need to see a pic of your loader valve though to make sure it is safe for ‘power beyond’ usage.

Also, the connection from
your hard line to your pump outlet looks like something someone makes a spacer block with external ports for. I thought i saw it for a Yanmar but i could be wrong or could be the exact same thing fits both. But someone makes a spacer block that fits between a round pump flang and round hardline flange with 3 bolts that reroutes fluid through your external attachment before continuing on to the 3pt. Hopefully someone reading this will recognize the reference and be able to direct you to this part/company because all ive got is the knowledge that it exists.. somewhere..

 

[TheOldHokie]

I agree that if you are going to modify the hard line in any way you might as well reroute it to put the loader valve first, and in series with the 3pt valve, rather than in parallel with the 3pt valve and having the 3pt itself ‘blocked off’ through the descent speed adjustment. That is a ‘kludge’ that someone would only do if they WERENT willing to modify the existing plumbing. But now you are!


Need to see a pic of your loader valve though to make sure it is safe for ‘power beyond’ usage.

Also, the connection from
your hard line to your pump outlet looks like something someone makes a spacer block with external ports for. I thought i saw it for a Yanmar but i could be wrong or could be the exact same thing fits both. But someone makes a spacer block that fits between a round pump flang and round hardline flange with 3 bolts that reroutes fluid through your external attachment before continuing on to the 3pt. Hopefully someone reading this will recognize the reference and be able to direct you to this part/company because all ive got is the knowledge that it exists.. somewhere..

The tractor has factory provision for hydraulic outlet and was discussed 4 years ago.. It just needs a simple bolt on aluminum cover plate with two ports in the face. Probably easier to fabricate than chopping on the lines.

Dan

 

[Yann]

I agree that if you are going to modify the hard line in any way you might as well reroute it to put the loader valve first, and in series with the 3pt valve, rather than in parallel with the 3pt valve and having the 3pt itself ‘blocked off’ through the descent speed adjustment. That is a ‘kludge’ that someone would only do if they WERENT willing to modify the existing plumbing. But now you are!


Need to see a pic of your loader valve though to make sure it is safe for ‘power beyond’ usage.

Also, the connection from
your hard line to your pump outlet looks like something someone makes a spacer block with external ports for. I thought i saw it for a Yanmar but i could be wrong or could be the exact same thing fits both. But someone makes a spacer block that fits between a round pump flang and round hardline flange with 3 bolts that reroutes fluid through your external attachment before continuing on to the 3pt. Hopefully someone reading this will recognize the reference and be able to direct you to this part/company because all ive got is the knowledge that it exists.. somewhere..

Thanks for pushing me into the idea that I am on the wright way!
I am pretty sure my loader controls (valve) does not have the possibility to be used in a "power beyond" system, from here my idea to have it in series instead of in parallel, as it would most likely not work.
I can't make a picture wright now as it is 1am and raining like hell, will hopefully send some tomorrow.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for pushing me into the idea that I am on the wright way!
I am pretty sure my loader controls (valve) does not have the possibility to be used in a "power beyond" system, from here my idea to have it in series instead of in parallel, as it would most likely not work.
I can't make a picture wright now as it is 1am and raining like hell, will hopefully send some tomorrow.

The few dollars needed to replace the loadet valve is not much more than you are going to spend on an inline relief. If you replace the loader valve the system will be fully protected AND allow you to use the 3pt and the loader concurrently.

Dan

 

[Yann]

The few dollars needed to replace the loadet valve is not much more than you are going to spend on an inline relief. If you replace the loader valve the system will be fully protected AND allow you to use the 3pt and the loader concurrently.

Dan

Ok, I keep all the options open, it will mostly depend on what parts I will be able to find here.

 

[Vigo]

I agree that if you are going to modify the hard line in any way you might as well reroute it

The tractor has factory provision for hydraulic outlet and was discussed 4 years ago.. It just needs a simple bolt on aluminum cover plate with two ports in the face. Probably easier to fabricate than chopping on the lines.

Dan

Whoops, somehow forgot about that. I think my brain was assuming it was hard because some of these other things were being discussed that wouldnt normally be considered..

Here’s a pic from another thread of the modification you mention:

 

[TheOldHokie]

I agree that if you are going to modify the hard line in any way you might as well reroute it

Whoops, somehow forgot about that. I think my brain was assuming it was hard because some of these other things were being discussed that wouldnt normally be considered..

Here’s a pic from another thread of the modification you mention:
View attachment 100337

Kubota has been using variations on that for 50 odd years. Heres the three port version on my 2021 L3901

Dan

 

[Russell King]

I agree that if you are going to modify the hard line in any way you might as well reroute it

Whoops, somehow forgot about that. I think my brain was assuming it was hard because some of these other things were being discussed that wouldnt normally be considered..

Here’s a pic from another thread of the modification you mention:
View attachment 100337

Just for reference here is a link to a thread that describes how the cover (shown in this picture) is removed and replaced with a new block.

B7100 Hydraulic block diverter (70060-00360 or 70070-00385)

Back in stock. CDN$40 plus actual shipping These are obsolete and no longer available. I have recently been contacted by a member asking if I will make him one of these after reading how I made mine. I know this comes up from time to time and would like to gauge the interest others might have...

www.orangetractortalks.com

I know it is different from the tractor under discussion but there seems to be a similar round cover somewhere on this tractor.

Hope it helps you figure out what you need to do. It basically is a pre-existing cut in the hardline that the new cover allows the fluid from the pump to be routed to the front e loader and then back to the original pipe to then go into the three point hitch and back into the sump.

 

[Yann]

I agree that if you are going to modify the hard line in any way you might as well reroute it

Whoops, somehow forgot about that. I think my brain was assuming it was hard because some of these other things were being discussed that wouldnt normally be considered..

Here’s a pic from another thread of the modification you mention:
View attachment 100337

 

[TheOldHokie]

I would be really glad if I had such a plate, unfortunately it is not the case... (picture).
I think the best option for me is to add an intermediary plate between the power line and the tractor connection, either at the pump exit or at the end of the line near the 3pt input.

If there is no factory outlet block in the line just cut a section out of the tube and put a couple tube fittings on the ends. Quick, easy and inexpensive. I have done that on dozens of old Fords.

Dan

 

[Yann]

I would be really glad if I had such a connection plate, unfortunately it is not the case... (picture).
I think the best option for me is to add an intermediary plate between the power line and the tractor connection, either at the pump exit or at the end of the line near the 3pt input (but if I do find tube fittings then I will cut the power line).
And the option of having the loader controls working in a "power beyond" system will not work as my loader controls do not support this kind of connection (see pictures, tell me if I am right or wrong) , I will have to connect them in derivation.

 

[Yann]

Here is the way the fluid flows in the loader power controls.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here is the way the fluid flows in the loader power controls.

I see multiple problems with that plumbing - use of tank return for power beyond AND a dead headed DA work circuit. The deadheading is probably the most concerning.

Dan

 

[Yann]

I see multiple problems with that plumbing - use of tank return for power beyond AND a dead headed DA work circuit. The deadheading is probably the most concerning.

Dan

It is not connected as a power beyond system, the return hose goes directly back to the transmission case.

 

[Yann]

It is not connected as a power beyond system, the return hose goes directly back to the transmission case.

After thinking about it I am actually not sure about that, is the out connection on the picture connected to a power place or this just flows back to the transmission case?
There is obviously an error somewhere as I can control the 3pt with the loader controls...

 

[TheOldHokie]

After thinking about it I am actually not sure about that, is the out connection on the picture connected to a power place or this just flows back to the transmission case?
There is obviously an error somewhere as I can control the 3pt with the loader controls...

The exact relationship of loader and 3pt is not clear to me but replumbing will make it clear.

It would be interesting to see the underside of that round flange on the end of the hydraulic supply tube.

Dan

 

[Yann]

The exact relationship of loader and 3pt is not clear to me but replumbing will make it clear.

It would be interesting to see the underside of that round flange on the end of the hydraulic supply tube.

Dan

For the moment I will keep focused on replumbing the loader with what I can find here. Hopefully within the week I should make it.
If it gets to getting off the round flange I will send you a picture of the inside. But I try to avoid dismantling working mechanisms as I can be short of spare parts here.

 

[TheOldHokie]

For the moment I will keep focused on replumbing the loader with what I can find here. Hopefully within the week I should make it.
If it gets to getting off the round flange I will send you a picture of the inside. But I try to avoid dismantling working mechanisms as I can be short of spare parts here.

I think the only thing you will find under that plate is an O-ring
Dan

 

[Vigo]

I would be really glad if I had such a connection plate, unfortunately it is not the case... (picture).
I think the best option for me is to add an intermediary plate between the power line and the tractor connection, either at the pump exit or at the end of the line near the 3pt input (but if I do find tube fittings then I will cut the power line).
And the option of having the loader controls working in a "power beyond" system will not work as my loader controls do not support this kind of connection (see pictures, tell me if I am right or wrong) , I will have to connect them in derivation.

You're right. Your tractor is missing a whole section of gearbox that is visible in the other pic (probably another gear splitter hi/lo type of thing) and your 3pt pressure feed line has no hydraulic 'block' there.

The good news is i don't think your loader valve NEEDS a separate 'power beyond' port to be put in series with your 3pt, because it is a 'sectional' valve for which power beyond would probably split off at the 'outlet' housing, meaning all the passages of everything in between were designed to withstand high pressure. In fact, it seems likely your inlet and outlet sections on that valve are identical other than having their ports drilled in from opposite ends. So that entire valve assembly can handle high pressure. Therefore you can just power your 3pt from the outlet of your loader valve, and while using the 3pt your loader valve will have pressure on both its inlets and outlets and will not work until you release the 3pt handle, but it won't blow up either. The issue with that approach is that you would still need the pressure relief valve between the pump and loader valve since the loader valve does not have its own pressure relief.

It does seem odd to me as well that you have a dual-acting valve with only one work port connected to anything and the other blocked, but this may make sense if your loader lift cylinders are single acting and do not have 'power down', or in other words only drop by gravity. A picture of the entire loader would help. Regarding the comment about 'deadheading' with that blocked port, im assuming the long screw coming out of the bottom of that valve section is and adjustable stopper that (if set correctly) would prevent you from moving the spool to the position that would deadhead the pump against the blocked port.

If you are willing to do compression fittings on your pressure feed line, you could install fittings into the pressure line in the same area that the hydraulic block exists on the other tractor, and your existing hoses may even reach there and not need to be swapped out for different hoses. You could potentially even package the pressure relief valve into this area somehow. Replacing the loader valve with one with an internal pressure relief is still an option.

If you are not willing to do compression fittings on your pressure feed line, then a 'fitting block' between the pump outlet and the pressure line would probably be the next easiest.