Southern States 50 Cetane

[The Evil Twin]

Some of you probably know this. I didn't until recently. Southern States sells off road diesel with a minimum cetane of 50. This particular location I was at had the same flavor for on road as well. The PPG was in line with other local stations. So check your local SS if you have one nearby.

 

[DustyRusty]

ok w g 2 ss

 

[GeoHorn]

My Kubota M4700DT Owners’ Manual specifies a minimum cetane of 40.

My Kubota RTV-X900 Owners’ Manual specifies a minimum cetane of 45.

My John Deere 4239D Diesel Engine specifies a minumum cetane of 40.

The state of Texas specifies that diesel fuel have a minimum cetane of 48.

Federal law requires a minimum cetane of 40.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[The Evil Twin]

Parts of TX, yes. Or it can be lower with alternative formulations.

 

[GeoHorn]

‘Think of the CN for diesel as one would for the octane rating of gasoline—only opposite in meaning. That’s because the higher the octane rating of gasoline, the slower it ignites, which stops detonation, or pinging. A high CN means the fuel ignites faster, producing a longer, cleaner fuel burn than diesel with a lower CN.
A cleaner diesel fuel burn means lower emissions. That’s why the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the government’s air-quality police, set a minimum CN of 40 across the country, with the final CN left up to individual states’ EPA regulations. For example, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) currently mandates a minimum 53 CN, while Texas (TxLED) set its highway diesel CN lower, at a minimum of 48.’

Cetane Numbers: How diesel fuel’s biggest unknown affects your truck

“Cetane Number.” It’s a rating in the diesel world that perks up our ears. We know it’s an important variable in the fuel that powers our rigs. But for most of

www.motortrend.com

 

[number two]

Maybe 15 years ago,I was driving fuel tankers here in Michigan.
At that time,Amoco offered Premier Diesel,a true 50 cetane fuel.
My company didn't load it,but for awhile I could find it at a local station.
Did not have a tractor at the time,but my 1993 Chevy 6.5 started and ran very well on the stuff.
Easy minimal knocking low smoke on startup and great throttle response.

Sadly,I have not seen this fuel anywhere for sometime.

Good Luck!

 

[mcmxi]

‘Think of the CN for diesel as one would for the octane rating of gasoline—only opposite in meaning. That’s because the higher the octane rating of gasoline, the slower it ignites, which stops detonation, or pinging. A high CN means the fuel ignites faster, producing a longer, cleaner fuel burn than diesel with a lower CN.
A cleaner diesel fuel burn means lower emissions. That’s why the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the government’s air-quality police, set a minimum CN of 40 across the country, with the final CN left up to individual states’ EPA regulations. For example, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) currently mandates a minimum 53 CN, while Texas (TxLED) set its highway diesel CN lower, at a minimum of 48.’

Cetane Numbers: How diesel fuel’s biggest unknown affects your truck

“Cetane Number.” It’s a rating in the diesel world that perks up our ears. We know it’s an important variable in the fuel that powers our rigs. But for most of

www.motortrend.com

I add Stanadyne to all diesel that I buy and it claims the following:

• Restores/Increase Horsepower: Detergents clean deposits in the injection system resulting in improved combustion, better acceleration, power, and torque
• Reduces Fuel Consumption: Independent tests show an average of 4% improvement in MPG and gains up to 9.6%
• Cetane Improver: Improves combustion resulting in better engine starting, smooth running, and reduced engine noise
• Meets all engine fuel system requirements and will not harm exhaust aftertreatment systems
• Reduces Emissions: Reduces smoke and particulates
• Cleans and Protects: Detergents and deposit modifiers help protect injection pumps, injectors, nozzles, etc.
• Reduces Wear: Lubricity improvers restore lubricity to ultra low sulfur and other low lubricity diesel fuels
• Stabilizes Fuel: Keeps fuel fresher and protects against formations of gums caused by oxidation
• Cold Weather Protection: Improves diesel pour point up to 40°F (22°C), and cold filter plug point by up to 25°F (13°C), depending on base fuel
• Corrosion Preventative: Corrosion inhibiters will protect the fuel system from rust and corrosion
• Helps Remove Water: Special demulsifiers cause tiny water droplets to come out of suspension/emulsion, so the filter/separator can more effectively remove water
• Contains No Alcohol: Avoids corrosion and accelerated wear
• Specially formulated for use with ultra low sulfur diesel fuel
• Can also be used with Bio Diesel Fuel up to B20 (20% bio content approved), increased water separation shown in bio content up to B20

I highlighted the "Cetane Improver" but when you consider that the mixing ratio is 5 gallons of diesel to 40ml of Stanadyne it's hard to believe that such a small amount of additive could do much of anything. Of course, Parker doesn't say how much the Cetane is improved/increased.

 

[GeoHorn]

I add Stanadyne to all diesel that I buy and it claims the following:

• Restores/Increase Horsepower: Detergents clean deposits in the injection system resulting in improved combustion, better acceleration, power, and torque
• Reduces Fuel Consumption: Independent tests show an average of 4% improvement in MPG and gains up to 9.6%
• Cetane Improver: Improves combustion resulting in better engine starting, smooth running, and reduced engine noise
• Meets all engine fuel system requirements and will not harm exhaust aftertreatment systems
• Reduces Emissions: Reduces smoke and particulates
• Cleans and Protects: Detergents and deposit modifiers help protect injection pumps, injectors, nozzles, etc.
• Reduces Wear: Lubricity improvers restore lubricity to ultra low sulfur and other low lubricity diesel fuels
• Stabilizes Fuel: Keeps fuel fresher and protects against formations of gums caused by oxidation
• Cold Weather Protection: Improves diesel pour point up to 40°F (22°C), and cold filter plug point by up to 25°F (13°C), depending on base fuel
• Corrosion Preventative: Corrosion inhibiters will protect the fuel system from rust and corrosion
• Helps Remove Water: Special demulsifiers cause tiny water droplets to come out of suspension/emulsion, so the filter/separator can more effectively remove water
• Contains No Alcohol: Avoids corrosion and accelerated wear
• Specially formulated for use with ultra low sulfur diesel fuel
• Can also be used with Bio Diesel Fuel up to B20 (20% bio content approved), increased water separation shown in bio content up to B20

I highlighted the "Cetane Improver" but when you consider that the mixing ratio is 5 gallons of diesel to 40ml of Stanadyne it's hard to believe that such a small amount of additive could do much of anything. Of course, Parker doesn't say how much the Cetane is improved/increased.

It probably makes one feel better but pouring it down the drain is just about as useful as adding it to diesel fuel which already meets federal and state standards for retail sale. It’d probably make a good weed-killer.

From the previous link: “
Here’s the bad news: Regardless of “cetane-booster” product claims, the CN of the fuel we use doesn’t have any significant impact on torque, horsepower, or fuel economy according to Lopes and diesel engineers at other major diesel-engine manufacturers. Boosting CN from 45 to 53, for example, isn’t going to change horsepower or fuel economy.”

The only diesel additives I feel good about are anti-biologicals and fuel stabilizer, because I buy it and store 100+ gallons at a time and it may be months before it goes into the tractor.

I agree that such a small amount of Stanadyne type additives for the other benefits claimed likely has insignificant benefit.

 

[mcmxi]

It probably makes one feel better but pouring it down the drain is just about as useful as adding it to diesel fuel which already meets federal and state standards for retail sale. It’d probably make a good weed-killer.

From the previous link: “
Here’s the bad news: Regardless of “cetane-booster” product claims, the CN of the fuel we use doesn’t have any significant impact on torque, horsepower, or fuel economy according to Lopes and diesel engineers at other major diesel-engine manufacturers. Boosting CN from 45 to 53, for example, isn’t going to change horsepower or fuel economy.”

It's all anecdotal for most of us but I disagree that because diesel fuel meets federal and state standards it doesn't benefit from additives. Take the gelling issue for example. Not a problem in Texas perhaps but a big deal up here. State and Federal groups don't care about how long your equipment lasts, or what repair bills you might face over the life of the equipment.

Also, Stanadyne doesn't claim that boosting the Cetane increases horsepower or torque, only that it "improves combustion resulting in better engine starting, smooth running, and reduced engine noise". Is this fact based, hard to say, but given the minimal cost along with the personal anecdotal/empirical evidence and never having had a problem with any diesel engine, ever (8 and counting), I'll keep pouring it into fuel containers and tanks rather than down the drain.

 

[GeoHorn]

Also, Stanadyne doesn't claim… increases horsepower or torque, ….

I add Stanadyne to all diesel that I buy and it claims the following:

• Restores/Increase Horsepower:….. better acceleration, power, and torque

Kool-Aid tastes better.

(It’s yours…you get to decide.)

 

[mcmxi]

Kool-Aid tastes better.

(It’s yours…you get to decide.)

Uhmmm ... I think your reading and comprehension abilities are better than that. Stanadyne doesn't state that raising the Cetane number increases horsepower and torque and that's the only point I was trying to make. Their claims re all of the supposed benefits are stated clearly and concisely and it's up to the consumer to drink the Kool-Aid or not. As you say, it's my choice.

• Restores/Increase Horsepower: Detergents clean deposits in the injection system resulting in improved combustion, better acceleration, power, and torque

Up here, the Montana Department of Labor and Industry regulates fuel quality. Diesel fuel must comply with ASTM D975-21 which specifies a minimum Cetane number of 40.

https://bsd.dli.mt.gov/weights-and-measures/net-content-of-pre-packaged-goods/fuel-quality

Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel

AbstractThis specification covers seven grades of diesel fuel oils suitable for various types of diesel engines. These grades are: Grade No. 1-D S15; Grade No. 1-D S500; Grade No. 1-D S5000; Grade No. 2-D S15; Grade No. 2-D S500; Grade No. 2-D S5000; and

www.astm.org

And given the statement on Wikipedia ...

" Premium diesel often use additives to improve CN and lubricity, detergents to clean the fuel injectors and minimize carbon deposits, water dispersants, and other additives depending on geographical and seasonal needs. " ....

.... it seems reasonable that over the counter additives can do something similar.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

So, do any of you guys 'blend' your used motor oil with your fuel?

 

[GeoHorn]

mcmxi, there’s little that’s “clear“ or “concise” about their claims. There’s nothing to prove that the “detergents” they use 1- clean like they claim or 2- result in increased horsepower, ”improved” torque (whatever “improved torque” means) or results in “better acceleration”, etc.
(as a side-argument, I’d suggest that if the fuel injector inserts a measured amount of fuel into the cylinder…that replacing a portion of that measure of fuel with detergent…might reduce the amount of the real BTU-producing stuff that does provide combustion energy to the process in each shot.) But as you say, the amount is so imperceptible as to likely make little actual difference.

It does provoke your imagination that it must be doing all kinds of miraculous benefits…. but I’ll bet the engine mfr’r doesn’t recommend that stuff. I’ll bet the engine mfr’r only recommends clean fuel which meets an ASTM standard.

Believe what you will, spend your money as you wish. I’ll do the same.

So, do any of you guys 'blend' your used motor oil with your fuel?

Federal law prohibits that practice by fuel distributors/refiners. I wonder how used motor oil of unknown specification and wear-components/dirt affects the CN.
We spend all kinds of effort and money to assure we put only clean, dry, high-quality diesel in the tanks…then throw in used motor oil…which is Notorious for absorbing condensation and developing acidic tendencies…

 

[mcmxi]

mcmxi, there’s little that’s “clear“ or “concise” about their claims. There’s nothing to prove that the “detergents” they use 1- clean like they claim or 2- result in increased horsepower, ”improved” torque (whatever “improved torque” means) or results in “better acceleration”, etc.

It does provoke your imagination that it must be doing all kinds of miraculous benefits…. but I’ll bet the engine mfr’r doesn’t recommend that stuff. I’ll bet the engine mfr’r only recommends clean fuel which meets an ASTM standard.

Believe what you will, spend your money as you wish. I’ll do the same.


Federal law prohibits that practice by fuel distributors/refiners.

Why is this so hard for you to follow? Stanadyne is very clear and concise about the benefits they claim their products offer. Whether their claims are true though is up for grabs, but there's at least one video on YouTube showing that some of the claims are indeed true.

It's well accepted that higher quality diesel gets there via additive packages, but if you want to believe that over the counter diesel additives have no benefits then you're free to do so, just as I'm free to believe that the anti-gelling and other advertised features are real and significant enough for me to keep buying the stuff ... as I will.

 

[GeoHorn]

From Kubota USA: “Kubota recommends the use of diesel fuel that is refined to appropriate on-highway and off-highway standards……Kubota cannot be responsible for any fuel system component failures due to inappropriate fuel, incorrect lubricity or fuel additives used.….Appropriate diesel fuel standards include ASTM D975 for lubricity. D975 is a standard that was adopted in 2005 to manage the concern of decreased lubricity as sulfur is removed from diesel fuel.”

 

[The Evil Twin]

Eh..I'd have to disagree with the fuel economy part. I can certainly attest to that. I drive the same every year. Almost 10000 miles exactly. I switched fuel stations. Both Shell, but one was "Jiffy" diesel at theor truck island. The other Shell/ Shell branded. The price difference was around $0.40/ gallon. I drove about 1000 miles on the cheaper stuff and saw a consistent 1.5 mpg decrease.
I got curious so I sent a sample of each to Intertek. The Jiffy was 41, the Shell was 45. The Shell also scored higher in lubricity. In short, the Jiffy met the bare minimum requirements and it showed.
For those that care, Sheetz is typically 43 in Virginia per Intertek.

 

[Killfast11]

mcmxi, there’s little that’s “clear“ or “concise” about their claims. There’s nothing to prove that the “detergents” they use 1- clean like they claim or 2- result in increased horsepower, ”improved” torque (whatever “improved torque” means) or results in “better acceleration”, etc.
(as a side-argument, I’d suggest that if the fuel injector inserts a measured amount of fuel into the cylinder…that replacing a portion of that measure of fuel with detergent…might reduce the amount of the real BTU-producing stuff that does provide combustion energy to the process in each shot.) But as you say, the amount is so imperceptible as to likely make little actual difference.

It does provoke your imagination that it must be doing all kinds of miraculous benefits…. but I’ll bet the engine mfr’r doesn’t recommend that stuff. I’ll bet the engine mfr’r only recommends clean fuel which meets an ASTM standard.

Believe what you will, spend your money as you wish. I’ll do the same.


Federal law prohibits that practice by fuel distributors/refiners. I wonder how used motor oil of unknown specification and wear-components/dirt affects the CN.
We spend all kinds of effort and money to assure we put only clean, dry, high-quality diesel in the tanks…then throw in used motor oil…which is Notorious for absorbing condensation and developing acidic tendencies…

just playing devils advocate here, but.......
if you lost power due to dirty injectors and the stuff cleans them, is that not increasing power?

 

[GeoHorn]

just playing devils advocate here, but.......
if you lost power due to dirty injectors and the stuff cleans them, is that not increasing power?

I suppose so….IF you can be certain it’s the snake oil that did the cleaning and not just the fresh fuel. (Question: How does the OEM suggest to clean dirty injectors?….and how did they get dirty?)

If, however, the product represents itself as a legitimate “fuel injector cleaner” that would not void a warranty… I would not be opposed to using it. It’s the “we do everything” products which I suspect.

The problem with snake oils (as I see them) is that they are usually applied to “prevent” problems that haven’t yet occurred...for ”smoother, more power” or , “better economy” (that last is the Real Joke if you think about it… spent $10 on something that has no measurable / quantifiable benefit ….and call it “better economy”. Ha!

Here’ s the Crux of the matter: I know of NO OEM which suggests these products.

The ONLY product which is often recommended by OEMs are fuel stabilizers on equipt which is placed in-storage….rarely or only sporadically-used…such as generators, log-splitters, etc. None of the “friction reducers”, octane / cetane ”improvers”, or other magic-sauces are recommended by OEMs.

Except for those fuel stabilizers in sporadically-used equip’t….OEMs usually advise only “fresh fuel” and ASTM or API approved motor oils. Why? Because they cannot be held responsible for the unknown effects of snake oils on their product….and many warranties are void if unapproved additives are used.

Of course, it’s your machine and money and you can always do as you wish. YMMV

 

[Killfast11]

I suppose so….IF you can be certain it’s the snake oil that did the cleaning and not just the fresh fuel. (Question: How does the OEM suggest to clean dirty injectors?….and how did they get dirty?)

If, however, the product represents itself as a legitimate “fuel injector cleaner” that would not void a warranty… I would not be opposed to using it. It’s the “we do everything” products which I suspect.

The problem with snake oils (as I see them) is that they are usually applied to “prevent” problems that haven’t yet occurred...for ”smoother, more power” or , “better economy” (that last is the Real Joke if you think about it… spent $10 on something that has no measurable / quantifiable benefit ….and call it “better economy”. Ha!

Here’ s the Crux of the matter: I know of NO OEM which suggests these products.

The ONLY product which is often recommended by OEMs are fuel stabilizers on equipt which is placed in-storage….rarely or only sporadically-used…such as generators, log-splitters, etc. None of the “friction reducers”, octane / cetane ”improvers”, or other magic-sauces are recommended by OEMs.

Except for those fuel stabilizers in sporadically-used equip’t….OEMs usually advise only “fresh fuel” and ASTM or API approved motor oils. Why? Because they cannot be held responsible for the unknown effects of snake oils on their product….and many warranties are void if unapproved additives are used.

Of course, it’s your machine and money and you can always do as you wish. YMMV

again. was only playing devils advocate. i do use seafoam in the tank on mine. does seem to help with carbon and lubricates injection pump. i use it in my cummins also. I know it does helps as i get a little milage increase that will last for a couple tanks after each use. and i do use the same source for fuel. all the time

my cummins is a 2003. original cp3, original injectors. 350K miles on it. so it does something. im assuming lubricates the pump as if i cant get any seafoam i use 2 stroke oil and it gives the same reasults but only for that tank.

 

[mcmxi]

I suppose so….IF you can be certain it’s the snake oil that did the cleaning and not just the fresh fuel. (Question: How does the OEM suggest to clean dirty injectors?….and how did they get dirty?)

If, however, the product represents itself as a legitimate “fuel injector cleaner” that would not void a warranty… I would not be opposed to using it. It’s the “we do everything” products which I suspect.

The problem with snake oils (as I see them) is that they are usually applied to “prevent” problems that haven’t yet occurred...for ”smoother, more power” or , “better economy” (that last is the Real Joke if you think about it… spent $10 on something that has no measurable / quantifiable benefit ….and call it “better economy”. Ha!

Here’ s the Crux of the matter: I know of NO OEM which suggests these products.

The ONLY product which is often recommended by OEMs are fuel stabilizers on equipt which is placed in-storage….rarely or only sporadically-used…such as generators, log-splitters, etc. None of the “friction reducers”, octane / cetane ”improvers”, or other magic-sauces are recommended by OEMs.

Except for those fuel stabilizers in sporadically-used equip’t….OEMs usually advise only “fresh fuel” and ASTM or API approved motor oils. Why? Because they cannot be held responsible for the unknown effects of snake oils on their product….and many warranties are void if unapproved additives are used.

Of course, it’s your machine and money and you can always do as you wish. YMMV

Stanadyne has been around for decades and was recommended for Fords when I was on a diesel forum back in 2002. There's plenty of literature around re OEM approval. It's a well proven product that I'll continue to use.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.suredone.com/2158/documents/stanadyne-OEM-Approval.pdf