Alec Baldwin facing prison and shouldnt be.

[hodge]

I taught firearms safety at the PPC course for the police dept I worked at.

I’m NOT a movie producer, director, or actor tho’.

And there’s no reason to turn this into a hateful ad hominem attack.

It's not hateful. It's an observation based on your comments.

 

[hagrid]

Who hired the taxi-driver that recklessly ran-over and killed the pedestrian while he was taking you to your destination?

Do you always answer questions with questions?

 

[fried1765]

I guess all those airline crashes must be the Passengers’ Fault…..

I have NEVER seen a passenger with his/her hand on the yoke of any airliner in my 39 years of flying!

 

[John T]

I'm gonna bite that spider before it can scurry away.

I think she porked up a bit.... might be a big spider....

looks like she is working at a tattoo place now.... so her days in holly-weird may be over.

 

[fried1765]

I'm gonna bite that spider before it can scurry away.

You wish !!!

 

[hagrid]

You can't stop me!!

 

[GeoHorn]

I have NEVER seen a passenger with his/her hand on the yoke of any airliner in my 39 years of flying!

No…but they are the ultimate employer… and previous comments place the blame on the employer.

I was actually the First in this thread to point out Baldwins’ culpability as producer. I believe he…and virtually all other cowboy actors who have no real experience with firearms….(I believe Baldwin is actually an anti-gun nut… which usually means ignorant about them, IMO)…. Anyway, I believe he relied upon the armorer to do her job …just like we expect taxi drivers and pilots to do theirs.

I”ve always done my best in my FIFTY-four years as a professional pilot, I.P., and FAA designated pilot-examiner.… but we all know there are idiot drivers out there. SHE is the real criminal in this case …if you can believe all that we’ve seen/heard so-far.
But Baldwin certainly bears some responsibility as one of those who participated in hiring her (the extent of which is presently unknown.)

 

[ken erickson]

I believe Alex Baldwin at the end of the day bears the majority of the responsibility for the death. Several times in my 20 plus years of owning and operating a retail gunsmith operation and indoor range I was handed a firearm with closed action and was "assured" that it was unloaded when in fact it was not. I ruffled more than one feather when the first thing I did was keep the muzzle in a safe direction and open the action and check for myself. I could never understand the sour look I would receive when the owner of the firearm told me it was unloaded but I checked for myself. I can assure you that if I had accepted at face value a "unloaded" firearm and then pulled the trigger and a injury or death occurred I would have been held accountable.

Baldwin had no business producing and acting in a film with firearms on the set without being trained and personally practice safe gun handling. I do not care who the personal were that told him the gun was safe, it was HIS duty to check the revolver in a safe manner.

 

[Daren Todd]

From what I understand, he missed the mandatory gun safety training.

But realistically 3 people should be sharing the blame for this tragic accident.

The person in charge of safety for the shoot. They should have insured that no bullets were on site. Just the prop bullets. They should have pulled Baldwin aside and made sure they completed the mandatory gun safety training. They should have also made sure that the person in charge of the prop guns had adequate training to perform the duties required. There should have also been more than one person verifying the loads for the weapons and correct prop bullets and blanks were used.

The person in charge of the prop gun who loaded the bullets into it.

And finally Baldwin for missing the mandatory training as well as being the one to pull the trigger.

 

[jyoutz]

I dont like his politics or stance on gun rights but i dont think he should have to do any jail time for what happened. It seems the person that loaded up the gun with actual bullets or the person that was supposed to check the gun for having the correct ammunition is fully to blame.(The Armorer)

Yeah he was dumb for pointing a gun and having his hand on the trigger but hes an actor using the gun on an acting job so its a prop to him not a deadly weapon. Should have never been allowed to be a deadly weapon on the movie set. It was the armorers job to make sure it was a prop not a gun.


View attachment 94994

Agree, and they will both get jury trials. I believe the armorer will be convicted and Alex acquitted. FYI, I live about 40 miles from the location where this happened.

 

[GeoHorn]

From what I understand, he missed the mandatory gun safety training.

But realistically 3 people should be sharing the blame for this tragic accident.

The person in charge of safety for the shoot. They should have insured that no bullets were on site. Just the prop bullets. They should have pulled Baldwin aside and made sure they completed the mandatory gun safety training. They should have also made sure that the person in charge of the prop guns had adequate training to perform the duties required. There should have also been more than one person verifying the loads for the weapons and correct prop bullets and blanks were used.

The person in charge of the prop gun who loaded the bullets into it.

And finally Baldwin for missing the mandatory training as well as being the one to pull the trigger.

According to CBS yesterday he was given a private safety briefing because he was on the phone handling a family-matter during the regular safety-meeting.

The question I have is: Is it normal on movie sets for actors to check firearms for real ammo ..?? ..or is it more customary to rely upon the armorer?

Did John Wayne always check his before each scene? Eastwood? Anyone?

 

[fried1765]

No…but they are the ultimate employer… and previous comments place the blame on the employer.

I was actually the First in this thread to point out Baldwins’ culpability as producer. I believe he…and virtually all other cowboy actors who have no real experience with firearms….(I believe Baldwin is actually an anti-gun nut… which usually means ignorant about them, IMO)…. Anyway, I believe he relied upon the armorer to do her job …just like we expect taxi drivers and pilots to do theirs.

I”ve always done my best in my FIFTY-four years as a professional pilot, I.P., and FAA designated pilot-examiner.… but we all know there are idiot drivers out there. SHE is the real criminal in this case …if you can believe all that we’ve seen/heard so-far.
But Baldwin certainly bears some responsibility as one of those who participated in hiring her (the extent of which is presently unknown.)

NOPE!
The airline is the "employer".
The pilot does not solicit payment from the passengers.
Passengers are just innocent dupes.

 

[Alfred_2345]

Everyone should read the entire Probable Cause statement from the Dirstrict Attorney:

Alec Baldwin Probable Cause Statement | PDF | Manslaughter | Hazards

Alec Baldwin Probable Cause Statement

www.scribd.com

Granted its one sided in that it lays out the state's case.

It shows that Alec Baldwin was grossly neglagent both as an individual (the actor) and as the employer (the producer by not enforcing standard safety protocols). There is plenty of blame to go around, the armour and assistant director were also negligent and are facing charges also.

 

[Daren Todd]

According to CBS yesterday he was given a private safety briefing because he was on the phone handling a family-matter during the regular safety-meeting.

The question I have is: Is it normal on movie sets for actors to check firearms for real ammo ..?? ..or is it more customary to rely upon the armorer?

Did John Wayne always check his before each scene? Eastwood? Anyone?

That's why I stated that the person in charge of safety and the person in charge of the prop guns should be held just as responsible for the accident.

 

[fried1765]

That's why I stated that the person in charge of safety and the person in charge of the prop guns should be held just as responsible for the accident.

Certainly there is plenty of blame to share, but......
The fact remains.....Alec Baldwin pulled the trigger ( though, with unabashed arrogance, he lies, and says that he did not. )

 

[motionclone]

We obviously differ significantly on this issue.!
ALL REAL guns should be treated as loaded guns,..... until verified unloaded by the holder of the gun!
The armor did not pull the trigger!
Baldwin claims he did NOT pull the trigger either....HUH ?????

If an actor is pretending to fly an airplane, and is given a safety rundown on how to fly it but was told the controls arent really hooked up for him to fly, and he trusts those pros. Then while getting ready for the scene, the actor cranks the yoke over thinking the controls arent really hooked but they are and the plane crashes should that actor go to jail?

 

[fried1765]

Certainly there is plenty of blame to share, but......
The fact remains.....Alec Baldwin pulled the trigger ( though, with unabashed arrogance, he lies, and says that he did not. )
ie: Alec Baldwin is an arrogant lying fool

 

[fried1765]

If an actor is pretending to fly an airplane, and is given a safety rundown on how to fly it but was told the controls arent really hooked up for him to fly, and he trusts those pros. Then while getting ready for the scene, the actor cranks the yoke over thinking the controls arent really hooked but they are and the plane crashes should that actor go to jail?

From 39 years of professional flying I can tell you that any/every pilot will do several control checks before takeoff.
Yours is a very weak analogy.

 

[jimh406]

People have been hurt and killed by "blanks" on set. From what other actors have said, they are told not to point guns at people, period. So, Baldwin's fault. If you throw in that it was Baldwin's movie set, it's all on him. It's the same as killing someone when driving. That is, you don't have to be doing something unreasonable to be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Here's one definition.

Involuntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being without intent of doing so, either expressed or implied. It is distinguished from voluntary manslaughter by the absence of intention. It is normally divided into two categories, constructive manslaughter and criminally negligent manslaughter, both of which involve criminal liability.

 

[motionclone]

From 39 years of professional flying I can tell you that any/every pilot will do several control checks before takeoff.
Yours is a very weak analogy.

So should the actor go to jail if he yanks the controls and crashes the plane after being told by a "pro" who set the plane up that the controls are not operational? Actors arent pros at whatever they are pretending to do and rely on a real pro to guide them.