Tractor(s?) for Vermont

[sadbox]

Hi Folks,

I made a similar post over in TBN, but I'd be curious to get some different viewpoints. After talking to some neighbors and the local dealers were primarily looking at orange tractors / equipment. If you saw the thread there this will be a little repetitive, but we've narrowed in on a few options.

The info:
Property:
113 acres in Central VT, relatively hilly, approximately 4 acres of "homesite" 30 acres of pasture, the rest are forest
The home site is about 1500ft from the road, up a hill

Goals:

1. 1-4 acres of no-till vegetable gardens, so primarily some loader work managing compost
2. trail maintenance, including clearing a small amount of forest for a small shooting range
3. snow management for the long drive
4. driveway maintenance
5. 30-ish dexter cattle, managing a bedding pack for the winter months, dealing with round bales
   1. The pack requires aeration as well
   2. Having the availability of a backhoe attachment would be nice for cleaning the pack in the spring, but we might also just rent a compact excavator for the job.
   3. As a small note here, we're building an open-faced hoop barn, so operating a tractor in the barn will be fairly straightforward.
6. pasture maintenance, mowing on occasion, using a no-till drill for maintaining the paddocks, spreading manure / compost
7. general property maintenance

Non-goals:
I do not want to hay, the land is too hilly and the pastures are too small to make it reasonable. With the high-compost needs of the no-till gardens importing hay is our preferred option.

Budget:
Budget is very loose. This doesn't necessarily need to justify itself in cost, but I do hate owning things that just sit there. I would rather lean on having fewer pieces of equipment I'm pushing a bit than a squadron of specialized ones.

General Desires:

1. Vermont is cold, and the snowiest state in the US, I want a cab on pretty much anything I'll own.
2. I also very much want whatever tractor is snowblowing the drive to have a front-mounted blower. I am aware this costs more, it is worth it for me.
3. I am heavily biased towards sticking with HST transmissions. A lot of what there is to do is loader work. The simplicity of operation also is appealing given the hilly nature of the property, especially if other members of the family end up using the tractor.

The Current Thoughts:
The most obvious tractor for us seems to be a L6060, loaded with plenty of ballast. It's capable of doing everything on the list, even if not perfect for each. Larger would force us in to geared tractors which are not nearly as useful for most of our chores, and would be much less nice for doing trail maintenance. Larger tractors are also worse for maintaining the health of the pastures. Smaller and we can't effectively run the no-till-drill, or mow with larger mowers.

The things it's lacking though:
Moving between the loader and the front snowblower would be an absolute mess given the daily bedding pack management for the cattle.
The loader itself is not the *best* for doing a lot of round bale moving. Capable, certainly not as quick as e.g. a track loader.

We could move snow management to something smaller, e.g. a LX3310 (or whatever the new models are coming out in 2023). This might be nice for mowing the "yard", and might save us from buying a zero-turn. It would also be nice for my wife to drive on occasion, especially for lighter work in the gardens. The actual process of attaching the snowblower to a LX is much simpler (and smaller) than the Grand Ls, and it would be reasonable to just leave it on all season.

We could also buy a compact track loader, It would probably be ideal for the work in the barn. I don't want to drive it around much elsewhere on the property though, between the hills and the damage to the pasture it would mostly just sit during the summer.

 

[BobInSD]

The 6060 w/ cab wouldn't be a good choice in the woods. Were you planning on taking the tractor in there?

 

[sadbox]

The 6060 w/ cab wouldn't be a good choice in the woods. Were you planning on taking the tractor in there?

I would probably use a mix of it and the 3310 assuming that’s the path I take, I’ll have the larger lanes to maintain around the range which would be reasonably sized for the 6060. The 3310 could do the smaller walking or atv trails. Cabs for either are definitely a compromise for the trails but so is freezing my butt off during VT winters lol

 

[BobInSD]

...Cabs for either are definitely a compromise for the trails but so is freezing my butt off during VT winters lol

Tell me about it. I use an open station tractor to move snow here in South Dakota. A cab would be sweet in the winter time for sure.

If you decide to go with two seperate units then the big one can't be "too big".

 

[hedgerow]

If it was me I sure wouldn't buy two tractors. A MX6000 HST with a cab and loader would be the way I would go. I would put a three point blower on it. You can move a lot of snow with a front end loader to. Use the blower when needed and you will have your loader on to feed round bales. I would buy a zero turn for mowing. I have blown a lot of snow with a three point blower and had a loader on the front to feed cattle.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Good day. If trying to do just with one machine, I think it depends on your expectations and scope of the work. To me there is multiple items that seems like the CTL would be superior. If more than one machine is an option I’d maybe consider what do need in addition to the CTL. 1-4 acres is a pretty good spread to call a garden so I wonder how much machine you really need if not tilling. I don’t think the CTL does much for pulling, but I think it will do about everything else. The attachments for the CTL might be more money, but I think it is a step up in capability for any work you want to to do out in front of the machine (but for a price). Depending on the trail and woods work a mulching head is pretty awesome IMO. I guess if I were considering tractor or CTL I’d think about your identified tasks which tasks you want a CTL vs tractor and then see where that leaves things. Just my thought.

 

[BobInSD]

If it was me I sure wouldn't buy two tractors. A MX6000 HST with a cab and loader would be the way I would go. I would put a three point blower on it. You can move a lot of snow with a front end loader to. Use the blower when needed and you will have your loader on to feed round bales. I would buy a zero turn for mowing. I have blown a lot of snow with a three point blower and had a loader on the front to feed cattle.

If money isn't a huge issue they make front snowblowers that are driven by a hydraulic pump driven by the PTO. My brother sent me links to them a few years ago, and they were way out of my price range (but much cheaper than two tractors). Those looked much easier to take on/off than the subframe required for the Kubota front blower driven by the mid-PTO.

Edit to add: Link to the front snowblower driven hydraulically via the PTO:

Tractor Snow Blower With PTO Powerpack| The Summit Series

Tackle the biggest blizzards and snow piles with the Summit skid steer snow blower! Introducing our new patent pending 6 bladed fan that moves over 50 tons/hour more snow! Our serrated auger grinds through the snow, helping remove air pockets, making it more dense before it reaches the fan...

quickattach.com

What does "feeding cattle" entail? If you just need to move a round bale that is already on the ground into a into a field you can do that with a 3pt bale spear (and leave the snowblower on the front for counter weight). If your bales are stacked you couldn't do this, but if they started on the ground it would actually be easier on your equipment to use the rear bale spear (or pallet forks).

 

[mcmxi]

An L6060 or MX6000 seem like good choices for what you need, along with a rear pull snow blower so that you don't have to look over your shoulder. I've heard that's an awful thing to have to do.

The L6060 is a nicer tractor than the MX, no question, with a significantly more advanced transmission and other bells and whistles. The cab layout is better too, but the MX is an excellent utility tractor and has a much more appealing front wheel/tire arrangement.

I helped out a "friend" in late 2021 unloading large round bales (5ft or 6ft) from a gooseneck trailer. They were stacked two rows high and the MX6000 open station I had at the time did ok, but the M6060 I now have would have been way better with significantly more loader height and lifting capacity.

 

[jyoutz]

If it was me I sure wouldn't buy two tractors. A MX6000 HST with a cab and loader would be the way I would go. I would put a three point blower on it. You can move a lot of snow with a front end loader to. Use the blower when needed and you will have your loader on to feed round bales. I would buy a zero turn for mowing. I have blown a lot of snow with a three point blower and had a loader on the front to feed cattle.

Yep. This was going to be my suggestion and it’s probably the most economical solution also.

 

[ve9aa]

HUGE FAN of front snowblowers here.

If I had to take it on/off every snowstorm, I'd move to Key West, Florida and sell it all.

ie: it will get old, really really fast.

(I don't even like doing it twice a year)

I'd either go to some kind of 3pt blower, or a style I could clamp to the bucket, driven hydraulically.
Even though I am not a fan of rear blowers, maybe a pull behind (not the usual push) 3-pt blower would work.

 

[jimh406]

Some thoughts ....

If you will run a notill drill, you need HP. You can rent them from county extensions in some locations. So find out what amount of HP you need for the drill you will use or rent.

A front mounted snow plow can also be fitted on a skid steer or wheeled one and many have heat. Tracks can be problematic in cold weather since they can freeze to the ground.

I know right now you are thinking you won't hay, but you will need quite a bit of hay to last a Vermont Winter for 30 head. You should look up "Just a few acres farm" on YouTube since he raises Dexters on his 40 acre farm. In any case, you should match the tractor or loader to the type of hay that's available in your area. If they mostly do large bales, you'll need a larger tractor. Hay can be one of the biggest expenses for cattle.

If you run a front mount snow blower, you'll need a tractor with a mid-pto. Otherwise, I suggest a MX5400 or MX6000. A zero turn isn't particularly good on hills, so I think you need to determine how much of a yard you will mow.

 

[trueg50]

Hey fellow Vermonter!

By the sounds of it you really have one hard requirement, and that is you need to lift the round bales. The rest can be done by some size machine but would be faster on a bigger machine. For round bales I think you need to check the loader can handle it weight wise (sorry, I don't deal with those).

Snow wise there are worlds of options. With a big L/MX machine you have worlds of weight and ground clearance to do a 3pt "reverse" blower to drive forward while keeping your FEL. Thats how some snowblowing companies over here do it and I've seen them take out 2 ft deep snow just fine. Fortunately for us we don't get slammed with 3ft of snow overnight like NY or out west, so you can usually keep on it without a monster machine plowing once part way through the storm. Even my B2601 (2k lb, no tire chains) can handle when the driveway got ~12" last year and I just ran my backblade 6" off the ground for the first pass, then all the way down for the second.

For trail work I would go rent an excavator! I have so much rock here it is terrible to carve trails in the hills behind my house. An excavator for $1300 a week is far more efficient than trying to either cut-in many trails, or grab material from one place and bring it to your trail because you hit a boulder.

Dealership wise you mentioned Central VT so I believe that would be Harvest equipment (Deere), Champlain equipment (Kubota, maybe New Holland?), and I think CCR in Essex does Kioti. I don't know if there is much else other than to the east and the New Hampshire dealers.

 

[sadbox]

What does "feeding cattle" entail?

The feeding part is just pulling a round bale off the stack and dropping it in a feeder. The more intensive work is managing the pack, so running a rototiller 1-2 times a day, spreading some new bedding every couple days, etc.

HUGE FAN of front snowblowers here.

If I had to take it on/off every snowstorm, I'd move to Key West, Florida and sell it all.

You and me both. It's been a while since I lived up there but I outside of this work a full time remote job, I'm a lot more time limited than cash.

I know right now you are thinking you won't hay, but you will need quite a bit of hay to last a Vermont Winter for 30 head. You should look up "Just a few acres farm" on YouTube since he raises Dexters on his 40 acre farm. In any case, you should match the tractor or loader to the type of hay that's available in your area. If they mostly do large bales, you'll need a larger tractor. Hay can be one of the biggest expenses for cattle.

He's one of the inspirations for this setup, and is not too far off from us zone-wise. He mentions in a few videos that he "hays because he wants to". We'd be in a similar situation, the cost of baling equipment, or hiring it out, or clearing land would make it hard to justify. No till also requires a LOT of compost, 70 tons / acre for some farms. Importing hay for us isn't just feeding the cows, but also feeding the gardens, and bringing organic matter to the farm.


re: Grand L vs MX
I'll have to think about this, it's a hard choice.

I think the winner so far is:
Get a CTL, figure out some sort of blower setup for the Grand L, or maybe look at a larger-than-the-grand-L tractor.

I have one wildcard option:
Go for the either the MX6000 or L6060, allow them to be more "dedicated" to snow in the winter.

But what about a TLB instead of the track loader? Something like the M62 would be absolutely wonderful for clearing out the pack in the summer, handle the loader tasks w/o issue, etc. With the open hoop barn it wouldn't be too bad for being in there with. I don't have too many backhoe tasks, but having one around on occasion wouldn't be too bad. It would also get me in to a "bigger" tractor for loader tasks without having to deal with a shuttle shift.

I do have one question:
Do y'all have any experience with CTLs on hills? Tractors are sketchy as we all know, but so are... apparently all vehicles when slopes are concerned? Would you rather drive a CTL or a tractor on hills?

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Clearing forest sounds like a once or twice job for you. Rent the appropriate machine, rather than upsize your farm tractor to handle that job.

Maintaining a cleared forest might be ongoing, but that's a very different job.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

The feeding part is just pulling a round bale off the stack and dropping it in a feeder. The more intensive work is managing the pack, so running a rototiller 1-2 times a day, spreading some new bedding every couple days, etc.



You and me both. It's been a while since I lived up there but I outside of this work a full time remote job, I'm a lot more time limited than cash.



He's one of the inspirations for this setup, and is not too far off from us zone-wise. He mentions in a few videos that he "hays because he wants to". We'd be in a similar situation, the cost of baling equipment, or hiring it out, or clearing land would make it hard to justify. No till also requires a LOT of compost, 70 tons / acre for some farms. Importing hay for us isn't just feeding the cows, but also feeding the gardens, and bringing organic matter to the farm.


re: Grand L vs MX
I'll have to think about this, it's a hard choice.

I think the winner so far is:
Get a CTL, figure out some sort of blower setup for the Grand L, or maybe look at a larger-than-the-grand-L tractor.

I have one wildcard option:
Go for the either the MX6000 or L6060, allow them to be more "dedicated" to snow in the winter.

But what about a TLB instead of the track loader? Something like the M62 would be absolutely wonderful for clearing out the pack in the summer, handle the loader tasks w/o issue, etc. With the open hoop barn it wouldn't be too bad for being in there with. I don't have too many backhoe tasks, but having one around on occasion wouldn't be too bad. It would also get me in to a "bigger" tractor for loader tasks without having to deal with a shuttle shift.

I do have one question:
Do y'all have any experience with CTLs on hills? Tractors are sketchy as we all know, but so are... apparently all vehicles when slopes are concerned? Would you rather drive a CTL or a tractor on hills?

I believe you can put a blower in a CTL. Also they are heavily ballasted to the rear as purchased so going up a steep incline can be an issue at some point.

 

[BAP]

A question for Sadbox, do you currently have any of the things that you list in your first post as uses for your tractor? Do you have the garden, the cows, the pastures? If you don’t have the cows, do you have any experience with them or are you just relying on internet videos? Kind of sounds like you don’t have any experience and some of the things that you list that you need to do with your tractor related to them aren’t really needed or at least no where as often as you mentioned.

 

[sadbox]

A question for Sadbox, do you currently have any of the things that you list in your first post as uses for your tractor? Do you have the garden, the cows, the pastures? If you don’t have the cows, do you have any experience with them or are you just relying on internet videos? Kind of sounds like you don’t have any experience and some of the things that you list that you need to do with your tractor related to them aren’t really needed or at least no where as often as you mentioned.

I have experience with cattle, albeit from back in Arkansas where we didn’t have to deal with the same winters. But, yes, I’ve been talking with farmers who are currently using this method in VT and upstate NY as well as some folks from UVM who work with grass fed producers in the state.

Bedded Pack Barns for Cow Comfort and Winter Manure Management

Bedded pack is a strategy for providing for animal health and comfort and managing manure, during the winter months. It refers to accumulated bedding materials and manure under covered housing. The pack is then composted after winter ends and the animals are back on pasture, and helps build soil...

www.uvm.edu

 

[mcmxi]

I believe you can put a blower in a CTL. Also they are heavily ballasted to the rear as purchased so going up a steep incline can be an issue at some point.

How about a telehandler. They seem to be very popular on farms in the UK when working with cattle and such.

 

[PaulL]

Sounds to me like the Grand L is the machine that does everything you list. A bit sketchy for large round bales. But if you set the round bales at a height the tractor can lift with a bale spear, you're in better shape. If you stack them along a low wall/ramp, then you can lift the top ones from on top of the ramp, the bottom ones from on the ground. No swapping implements then (well, 3ph bale spear for rototiller, but that's pretty easy). May need a ramp for the feeder too, depending on how that works.

 

[River19]

I'm in Central NH and have a cabin in northern VT 40miles from Canada.......I wouldn't really be THAT concerned with the snow.....sure, it snows, but it isn't measured in "feet" very often. The deep cold and MUD are the two things I would be prepared for. Mud is a reality for ~8 months out of the year depending on your location, maybe 7.5 months....... Oh then there is the Mud. Did I mention you will be dealing with Mud?

Honestly, if $ wasn't a real limiter I would opt for a capable larger tractor and a capable mid to compact with a mid PTO for blowing......BUT, what is your driveway and farm yard surface? And how level is it? That would be a consideration for me for snow removal. If typical flat gravel, I would go maybe LX for snow removal and trail, basic around the farm maintenance, has a cab etc. Then the big boy for the actual "farm duties" and to pull the little guy out when you get it stuck in the mud. Did I mention mud?