Anyone living in a barndiminium or a spray foam contractor ?

[Poohbear]

We are building new home , zone 3, & not one insulation contractor that has bid meets or exceeds what Texas requires & we use International Residential & International Building Codes . All 4 say they meet code with open cell foam at R13 wall & R19 ceiling & I say my code book says 20 on walls & 38 in attic & because I have a metal frame followed by conventional wood frame interior possibly even higher R value . That's what what my book says . Plus I can't find any data sheet that says open cell at x inchs is a vapor barrier & again they all say it's a barrier but no data sheet.
So my ? Is for those that have used foam what's been your opinion after haveing it a while
Yes I have lots of experience & training on HVAC systems on foamed houses and used to code compliance so I guess I just expect the same from other trades or am I concerned over nothing ?

 

[mikester]

I'd go closed cell and highest R value you can get. I wouldn't use less than R20 walls and R40 roof. What you skimp on during construction you pay for in the day to day operating costs of heating and cooling your home. Put in an ERV/HRV because your home will be too air tight.

 

[mcfarmall]

Nope. I don't live in a spray foam contractor.

 

[Sporto]

My BIL is a spray foam contractor and he had mentioned that open cell is not considered a vapor barrier, here you have to go closed cell. Not sure but I believe that may be code in Manitoba Canada

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious so I ..
googled... open cell foam a vapor barrier

all say ....It is NOT a vapor barrier, this is directly from the guys who MAKE the foams !

open cell has 3.5R value. closed cell is 6R

BTW ...for reference R13 is a 2by4 wall with batts, R19 is a 2by6 wall with batts
Here in Ontario ,minimum code is R19 for the walls.

I've seen installs on TV , where they 'butter spray' closed for an inch first to block ANY air from getting in.., then fill the cavity with open to get the 'R- value'.

Yes, an HRV is needed. IF properly installed it really helps.....

 

[Poohbear]

As I said I cannot find a data sheet anywhere showing open cell is a vapor barrier, only an air barrier & insulator( thermal barrier ).
I'm in climate zone 3 , hot/humid, which is way different than you guys in the frozen north country. I've allways used closed cell on the shops I've built but these are not heated/cooled so have experience a small bit. I'm just baffled by contractors especially the larger outfits that are trying to pass off non compliant installs. My walls are 4in post/purlins steel frame with interior framed with 2/4 for a 7 1/2 cavity.
If I had not been an AC contractor till retirement and keeping my license current I wouldn't have known a building that has code compliant insulation & windows meant that I didn't have to do/. pay for 2 tests by a 3rd party. I'm back to finding a foam company that will not try to BS the job. Meeting code means more $ so why don't they want to do it correctly is baffleing

 

[GreensvilleJay]

All of the foam makers ,like JM, have datasheets and say that open cell is NOT a vapor barrier...common sense says that if open cell was a valor barrier they'd promote the fact.
Your local building department(whoever inspects) WILL KNOW...after all THEY are the ones you have to please. Show them the product the 'foamers' are offering !!

Some up here,stuff 2by6 walls with 'pink' batts, then cover the exterior with a sheet of foam and vapor barrier. Real common for houses with stucco..

Doesn't matter where you live we're all trying to keep Mother Nature out !
BTW ,going to be 50*F here today ! Should help Buffalo get rid of the 4 FEET of snow they got this past week.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Anyone living in a barndiminium or a spray foam contractor ?

I don't know about a barndominium, but I am 100% certain nobody is living in a a spray foam contractor.


Sounds like an old episode of The Twilight Zone.

 

[DustyRusty]

I put about 10" of low-density foam on the underside of the roof deck, and it has made a big difference in the comfort level of the home. I know that it isn't a vapor barrier, but I really don't care, because the home is so dry in the winter, and air-conditioned in the summer. The contractor is going to be doing my cellar interior wall once I have the cellar cleaned out, and he said that below grade he has to use high-density foam because of the moisture that comes through the concrete. When I built the home, we used 6" fiberglass batts in the walls and 2" styrofoam board on the outside and 12" batts on the attic floor which was what was recommended 35+ years ago. It is OK, but not as good as the spray foam, and I can tell from the melt areas on the roof where we didn't have it spray foam exactly where they are from the outside. This is above the garage, and I am going to have that area spray-foamed this spring. Today more than ever before, good insulation is important, since the cost of heating and cooling has gotten so expensive. If I were to build the home again, I would build walls out of 2"x12" lumber and spray foam the entire thickness of the wall, and not put in as many windows as I presently have. Skylights would also be eliminated.

 

[Henro]

Some up here,stuff 2by6 walls with 'pink' batts, then cover the exterior with a sheet of foam and vapor barrier. Real common for houses with stucco..

I am surprised to hear that, since in a cold climate the vapor barrier is to be placed on the hot side of the insulation, where water vapor in the air is the highest.

This is because as the vapor moves through the wall towards the cold side it may reach a point where it condenses within the insulation. Wet insulation equates to lower R value, among other things. That's the theory anyway...which I subscribe to myself.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Some 'fancy' new system ,called 'Zip' I think. EXPENSIVE green coloured 4by8 sheets of wafter board, foam and vap barrier with really really specific 'how to install' instructions.....

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Some 'fancy' new system ,called 'Zip' I think. EXPENSIVE green coloured 4by8 sheets of wafter board, foam and vap barrier with really really specific 'how to install' instructions.....

Yep.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=matt+risinger+zip+system

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Our house is 2x6 with rockwool insulation R21 and (2) 1" thick sheets of ridged foam with both sides in Mylar vapor barrier, they have the seams foamed and taped and seams are staggered between layers.
This gives the walls 4 vapor barriers on the outside and a thermal break from the wood framing to the siding.
Trusses are energy trusses, which allow a min of 16" of blown insulation over the walls rest of house is 24" minimum
All penetrations through the drywall are closed cell fire foamed in.

HRV (cold climate) ERV (hot climate) are required if you build a tight house.

I have a really nice HRV that controls the interior humidity, bathroom exhaust fan duties, and makeup air for things like the dryer.

Our house is extremely efficient.
Winter is really nice, warm and dry, Hydronic heating of the insulated slab is the only way to go.
And summer, well this last summer it was in the 90's up to 104 and the house normally stays in the mid 60's with the highest being 71 for one day.

Having properly installed insulation is sooo under rated.

I've used Zip system sheets they are nice, but also pricey.
I have the same type of product that they use on the zip sheets in a liquid spray form.
So think liquid vapor barrier, it's neat stuff, again also not cheap.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

OK, now I'm real curious !
'energy trusses' ???
I just gotta know...what makes them 'energy' trusses ????

 

[Biker1mike]

OK, now I'm real curious !
'energy trusses' ???
I just gotta know...what makes them 'energy' trusses ????

Short over view

Raised-Heel Trusses - APA – The Engineered Wood Association

www.apawood.org

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Thank you !
Nice design...lot stronger building with them.....

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Energy trusses and raised heal trusses do work in the same ways.
And yes they are extremely strong.
My trusses are 2x6 top and bottom cord.
These are my trusses:

 

[leveraddict]

Wolfman, just wondering what is your ballast on the back of your tractor and what is wrapped around your front tires?

 

[jkrubi12]

I wondered that myself; I guessed an engine block & sticky wrap on the F tires to prevent 'steer' marks on the new concrete.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I wondered that myself; I guessed an engine block & sticky wrap on the F tires to prevent 'steer' marks on the new concrete.

It's a six-cylinder head (maybe off a truck?), and I think he has the tape sticky side out to pick up nails