No support

[Richard Humphrey]

last year bought new BX2680 with la344 quick attach bucket and 60-inch mower First 50 hours worked great then all of a sudden it would only run about 15 min. before it would start stumbling and blowing black smoke no power then stall. let it sit half an hour it would start and run another 15 min. then same. replaced filters as many people complained about same thing and said new filters fixed problem, replaced both and it didn't did not fix anything. Took it back to Agricon Ocala to have them check it out being it only had around 50 hours on it and was 6 months old. they said I let water get in fuel and I had diesel Algie, I have never had an issue on my l4701 over the last 6 years same source. Agricon said it would cost me $1000 for them to disassemble fuel system and clean it, I kindly declined to be screwed. brought it back home and ordered a water separating filter to replace the filter connected to the tank no water in new filter and it still runs like shit. if this is the kind of support you can expect these will be the last Kubota's I will ever buy and will never recommend one to anyone else.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

You may have a 'floater' in the tank, randomly blocks the outlet, so engine coughs, sputters, dies.

That happend to my BX23S 3 years ago (200+- hrs). I took a liesurely 3 days to remove tank, clean it, reinstall and yes, I DID find the problem ! A sliver of black plastic blocking the outlet spigot where the fuel is SUPPOSED to leave the tank.

One possible test you can do to confirm a 'tank problem'. Disconnect the line just before the fuel pump, connect a hose and drop into a 5 gallon can of fresh diesel. be sure tractor is in neutral ! Start up engine, run for a few minutes. If it runs fine...... problem is in the tank.

 

[Bmyers]

Based on your dealer location, I'm assuming you live in FL. I'm also assuming that you haven't find the cause of the issue. Just curious, do you treat your fuel?

Out of three tractors, we had one that developed algae. They all used the same fuel, why one developed algae and the others didn't, no idea. Yet, we ended up having to take the tank off, cleaning everything, it was a pain in the butt. Yet, once everything was clean, it ran fine.

Since then, we have made sure to treat all the fuel to prevent the issue from happening again.

I will be curious as to what you determine the problem to be.

 

[William1]

I had algae. My tractor is kept in a covered structure. Tank full right to the brim at th end of each use. Fuel was treated. The issue is, amount of hours I run the little guy. 20 or so a year. Condensation and tempoerature swings are evil. At about 200 hours...
First time, when rpms were brought up and under load, it'd stutter. Checked the fuel filters. The one closest to the tank was BLACK. New filter, problem went away. I 'shocked the fuel' in the tank with a 2X dose of algecide and after 30 hours runtime, changed the filter again. It was dark, but not black.
I'd cut apart that first BLACK filter, the material in it was hard, solid encrustation.
Now, when I do the annual oil change, I take a look see at the fuel filter near the tank and if it is at all dark, it gets replaced. I also treat my fuel in the can with a stiffer dose of algecide going forward.

 

[Kubie L3400D]

I had algae.
...
Now, when I do the annual oil change, I take a look see at the fuel filter near the tank and if it is at all dark, it gets replaced. I also treat my fuel in the can with a stiffer dose of algecide going forward.

What algaecide do you recommend?

 

[Richard Humphrey]

You may have a 'floater' in the tank, randomly blocks the outlet, so engine coughs, sputters, dies.

That happend to my BX23S 3 years ago (200+- hrs). I took a liesurely 3 days to remove tank, clean it, reinstall and yes, I DID find the problem ! A sliver of black plastic blocking the outlet spigot where the fuel is SUPPOSED to leave the tank.

One possible test you can do to confirm a 'tank problem'. Disconnect the line just before the fuel pump, connect a hose and drop into a 5 gallon can of fresh diesel. be sure tractor is in neutral ! Start up engine, run for a few minutes. If it runs fine...... problem is in the tank.

ve continued to

You may have a 'floater' in the tank, randomly blocks the outlet, so engine coughs, sputters, dies.

That happend to my BX23S 3 years ago (200+- hrs). I took a liesurely 3 days to remove tank, clean it, reinstall and yes, I DID find the problem ! A sliver of black plastic blocking the outlet spigot where the fuel is SUPPOSED to leave the tank.

One possible test you can do to confirm a 'tank problem'. Disconnect the line just before the fuel pump, connect a hose and drop into a 5 gallon can of fresh diesel. be sure tractor is in neutral ! Start up engine, run for a few minutes. If it runs fine...... problem is in the tank.

I have continued to use the tractor and have noticed thing that led me to the same conclusion seems to happen during turns and jamming on brake and lurching forward seems to dislodge something and it will continue to run to the nest turn or downhill slope just procratinating removing tank. a couple of months back I came across an article, maybe by you refering to the same thing black plastic left over from fabrication of tank drawn into the fuel tank scupper.

 

[Dave Ogren]

I have been using Diesel Kleen, 3 ounces to 5 gallons of diesel since brand new. It is a little strong (should be about 6 ounces per 20 gallons) raises the cetane a little but runs great and starts easily even when the temperature is in the single digits like just last week. Good luck.
Dave

 

[fried1765]

ve continued to

I have continued to use the tractor and have noticed thing that led me to the same conclusion seems to happen during turns and jamming on brake and lurching forward seems to dislodge something and it will continue to run to the nest turn or downhill slope just procratinating removing tank. a couple of months back I came across an article, maybe by you refering to the same thing black plastic left over from fabrication of tank drawn into the fuel tank scupper.

Take it back to Agricon!
It is only $1,000.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious, I had a look at your model online parts... similar 3 chamber tank ,so a 'floater' can go here,there ,everywhere playing hide and seek.
According to Kubota it's only a 3 hour job, but I wasn't in a hurry.... Hardest part was lifting the dang seat assembly ,it's HEAVY and AWKWARD... Next was removing the 'floor pan-fender' tin. Funny how everyone 'disappears' when I could use 2 extra hands. The rest was easy.... Oh yeah, the knob for 3PH position broke off...only $7 to replace...
The problem is that if you don't remove and clean the tank, the 'floater' WILL come back again and again...usually when you NEED the tractor.

 

[William1]

What algaecide do you recommend?

I happen to be using StaBil but most are just as good as another. Diesel Kleen has a good rep.
Keep in mind, a treatment is not a 'repair in a bottle', it is a preventative going forward. If you have clumps of goop in the tank, treatment will not dissolve them. It is the residue of dead algae. To remove, the tank must be cleaned.
I was lucky and did not have much and what I had was captured by the filter. Had a simple filter swap not resolved it, the tank would of been pulled.

 

[Kubie L3400D]

I happen to be using StaBil but most are just as good as another. Diesel Kleen has a good rep.
Keep in mind, a treatment is not a 'repair in a bottle', it is a preventative going forward. If you have clumps of goop in the tank, treatment will not dissolve them. It is the residue of dead algae. To remove, the tank must be cleaned.
I was lucky and did not have much and what I had was captured by the filter. Had a simple filter swap not resolved it, the tank would of been pulled.

I don't have any issues in either Kubie or Bobbie (Bobcat T190) but don't want to either, thus the question, as this thread represents a new to me threat to their operation that I'd like to avoid.
I already use Sta-Bil in the fuel but not one that contains Biocide.

Thanks for replying, and best wishes to the O P'r on resolving his issue.

Happy New Year, y'all.

 

[William1]

I don't have any issues in either Kubie or Bobbie (Bobcat T190) but don't want to either, thus the question, as this thread represents a new to me threat to their operation that I'd like to avoid.
I already use Sta-Bil in the fuel but not one that contains Biocide.

Thanks for replying, and best wishes to the O P'r on resolving his issue.

Happy New Year, y'all.

If you are running fuel through and putting in the hours, biocide is not critical. but for people like me where the machine sits inactive for months on end, it is a real issue.
Kudos for wanting to be proactive. I certainly try!

 

[Kubie L3400D]

If you are running fuel through and putting in the hours, biocide is not critical. but for people like me where the machine sits inactive for months on end, it is a real issue.
Kudos for wanting to be proactive. I certainly try!

Neither sits for months,
but weeks sometimes they do.

 

[Dave Ogren]

My son bought a used diesel tractor (the 18 wheel type) and started using Diesel Kleen in the fuel. Inside of the 2- 100 gallon tanks was black.He ended chainging fuel filters daily (about 600 or 700 miles). Finally the tanks' insides were bright and shiny as if they were brand new. It is my understanding that some kind of bacteria of algae grows in diesel fuel.
Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I've read how you've added products to the fuel, but I've yet to read that you've added a biocide to the tank.
It works completely different than a booster/ cleaner like you say you've been using.

SOLTRON, NOT startron

Check with any boat place or I get it at NAPA.

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[lugbolt]

that is a typical response of a frustrated owner. I've been in those shoes. I've been in the tech's shoes and the service manager's shoes too. I have not been in the shoes of a kubota tech rep though; although I worked alongside them closely for a number of years. 3 decades actually.

On the BX's, it's not uncommon for junk to get down into the tank and it can often plug the tank outlet, maybe partially or maybe completely. Algae does in fact grow in diesel fuel. So that is also a possibility. Water isn't uncommon either, and I can tell you this about water in diesel: it's not always caught by a water separating filter. Some of it can stay suspended. It's a HUGE issue with the trucking industry, well and with any diesel engine that uses a common rail injection system. CR injection is extremely sensitive to water. A few parts per million can cause damage. And diesel SITS in tanks, especially off-road diesel and in tractors. Luckly your bx doesn't have a common rail engine, and can tolerate a very small amount of water. When I say small amount I mean an ounce to 5 gal.

I do believe the issue lies in the fuel tank itself based on the frustrated OP's descriptions. Unfortunately, on a BX, there is no easy way to get the tank out to clean it. It's buried under the seat so you have to remove the seat both fenders flooboard roll bar some wirings, etc to access the tank, then pull it off and flush or replace it. It's typically a 2-3 hour job for a seasoned tech. A lot of them want to replace the tank and the reasoning is that if they flush it they don't really know if they got all the junk out because of the shape of the tank, and IF they don't get it all and it comes back, they (the shop) is on the hook for the repair and secondly and more importantly the tractor's owner has lost all confidence in the dealer if they have to take it back a second time for the same repair. Understandable. The downside of replacing the tank is cost, obviously.

my personal SOP for a repair such as this, give the owner the option. Replace (the correct way) or try to flush it/clean the system, with no guarantee that it's going to be a permanent fix. Then the owner has made the decision based on their needs and wishes. "Most" of the time they choose #2 and then if there is an issue, they aren't as pissed because they chose that option.

So 3 hours labor + the tank + all the fees and taxes? Yeah I can see $1000. Do I agree with it? Not really. Not even as a service tech. But understand that us techs have little to do with what things cost. We have to look at the bigger picture and make a decision that is best for the customer and that often costs, maybe more than the owner thinks it should. Oftentimes more than "I" think it should. Trust me when I say, if we could do it for free, we would.

Here's another scenario. If in fact the fuel tank had plastic debris inside of it from manufacturing, then Kubota would be on the hook for it. But that has to be proven, and proving it is not easy. I've done it and I've seen it happen; and kubota will eat the cost if THEY left manufacturing debris in it. At 50 hours, it's a remote possibility.

 

[DustyRusty]

For boates, they have a device that pumps the fuel out and back into the tank, and you leave it on for a few hours, and it removes algae and other contaminants. As my friend that has one and uses it on his sailboat, he says it polishes the fuel, and that after the fuel goes through the 3 filters, it is immaculate and dry.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Curious so , I had a look. The tank is the same as in my BX23S, is $407 CDN. As it's only a year old with very,very low hours I don't think algae is the cause. My forklift will sit for months and it's from the 70s so who knows what's inside that tank !
It's EASY for a 'foreign object' to get into the tank as there isn't an 'inlet filter/screen',which is what I suspect happened to me, it might also have been a piece of plastic from the fuel cap itself. There's 2 posts for the vent system and if they'd had some 'flashing' on them..hmmm..similar shape and size to what I found.
yes $1000 is cruel, as LB says .$400 for tank, 3 hrs is $375, old diesel disposal fee $100. TAXES and yeah $1000 comes up fast !
I would expect it to be easy to clean that tank, hot soapy water, bent pressure wand though I doubt any 'black' will come out. It took me about 6 real hours, over 3 days. heck, I didn't need to let the tank bake in the sun for 3 hours after I'd cleaned it, rinsed with alcohol (WW fluid..). Service said 3 hrs and I can see 2 guys easily doing it in that time.
It's too bad the filler neck doesn't have a factory installed screen. It SHOULD be there... my forklift has one....

 

[SDT]

ve continued to

I have continued to use the tractor and have noticed thing that led me to the same conclusion seems to happen during turns and jamming on brake and lurching forward seems to dislodge something and it will continue to run to the nest turn or downhill slope just procratinating removing tank. a couple of months back I came across an article, maybe by you refering to the same thing black plastic left over from fabrication of tank drawn into the fuel tank scupper.

If it is debris in the tank from manufacturing it is a warranty issue.

Problem being that you will not be able to prove that such was found or that such was manufacturing debris or contamination introduced by you.

If such is found at the dealer what do you expect that the dealer will do?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

a request.
can those with similar tractors , remove the fuel cap and look at the 2 'vent pipes' please.
Are they straight pipes with smooth ends or do they have 'ridges' (about 1/8" thicker ) on the ends ?