Starter not engaging

[Henro]

Thanks for the responses. I think I may have left out a few steps, but I think we are all on the same page. I have not load tested the battery yet, will tomorrow. Have not cleaned or tested the the battery cables yet, will tomorrow. I have the battery out of the tractor and on charge, will test that first. how high should the cranking amps be on a new battery if I need one. I have replaced this battery three years ago, but only replace with like kind. I don’t have any idea what was in it originally. I know I have limited space so can I get a higher cranking amp battery in the same location. Thanks

You are doing all the right things and hopefully when you are done the starter will work again, all will be good, and the worst thing that happens is you will wonder what you did that actually fixed the problem.

Nothing beats a happy ending…and there will still be time to apply logical troubleshooting principles if needed.

 

[BAP]

When you put the starter back on, make sure the mating surfaces of the starter and bell housing are shined up with no rust so that the starter gets a good ground. If they aren’t, that can cause poor performance by the starter if that is the only source of ground.

 

[fried1765]

Thanks for the responses. I think I may have left out a few steps, but I think we are all on the same page. I have not load tested the battery yet, will tomorrow. Have not cleaned or tested the the battery cables yet, will tomorrow. I have the battery out of the tractor and on charge, will test that first. how high should the cranking amps be on a new battery if I need one. I have replaced this battery three years ago, but only replace with like kind. I don’t have any idea what was in it originally. I know I have limited space so can I get a higher cranking amp battery in the same location. Thanks

Since you already have the battery removed from the tractor, you should take it to a local auto parts store for a free load test.
Simply charging the battery to 12V+ is NOT enough!
A DC voltage test meter does NOT provide a LOAD test!

 

[D2Cat]

That is what I would do. Doing it that way eliminates every connection and every wire between the battery in the tractor and the starter itself. That way you are checking ONLY the starter...if the tractor starts you know you have a bad connection or cable between the tractor battery and the starter.

Edit: OR a bad battery, but if I remember right, you pretty much have ruled out a bad battery.

Not true! The metal between the engine block and the face of the starter has to be clean. It is also an electrical connection. Put a starter cable to the tractor frame..... eliminates wires, but not that connection.

 

[Henro]

Not true! The metal between the engine block and the face of the starter has to be clean. It is also an electrical connection. Put a starter cable to the tractor frame..... eliminates wires, but not that connection.

Read a second time what I wrote.

The connection between the starter case and the engine block is just another connection in the circuit. Putting the negative jumper on the starter case and the positive lead on the starter terminal, eliminates that connection as well as every other connection, when checking/verifying the starter actually works (or doesn't work) when it receives power.

 

[BruceP]

Do you have a VOLTMETER?

A couple quick tests you can do are as follows:
voltmeter (-) lead on BATTERY-MINUS for ALL tests

• Voltmeter (+) on CASE of starter (expect 0.00 volts at all times)
  • write down voltage with key in RUN position
  • write down voltage with key in START position
• Voltmeter (+) lead on LARGE connector on starter (expect +12 at all times)
  • write down voltage with key in RUN position
  • write down voltage with key in START position
• Voltmeter (+) on SMALL connector on starter (expect +12 ONLY when key in START)
  • write down voltage with key in RUN position
  • write down voltage with key in START position

If you can tell us the results of the above measurements .... it would go a long way towards isolating your starting issue.

 

[DustyRusty]

Please, let us not forget the quality of the battery jumper cables has a lot to do with the transfer of amperage. A 14 gauge wire will transfer a full 12 volts, but won't transfer much more than 16 amps. This is where the quality of the wires making up the jumper cables comes into play. I have seen jumper cables that have insulation as large as your thumb, but the insulation was thick and the wires inside the insulation were 1/8" in diameter. It was all insulation and almost no wire by comparison.

 

[Henro]

Since you already have the battery removed from the tractor, you should take it to a local auto parts store for a free load test.
Simply charging the battery to 12V+ is NOT enough!
A DC voltage test meter does NOT provide a LOAD test!

This is true. A voltage measurement of a battery unloaded is not of much value as far as determining if a battery can supply high load current.

BUT one "do it yourself" at home measurement that can be useful is measuring voltage AT THE BATTERY TERMINALS when trying to start the engine. Frequently, and maybe always, a weak battery will drop voltage at the TERMINALS when asked to supply high load current. At the terminals means the battery posts themselves, NOT the clamps on the terminals.

If the voltage drops significantly AT THE BATTERY TERMINALS when trying to start the engine, one is almost guaranteed that the battery is bad. IF the voltage does not drop, this likely indicates there is a bad connection somewhere, so the battery sees high resistance, and cannot/will not supply high current as the result. OR the circuit that causes the starter solenoid to energize is not working properly, so the high load current the starter demands is not asked for.

 

[Henro]

Please, let us not forget the quality of the battery jumper cables has a lot to do with the transfer of amperage. A 14 gauge wire will transfer a full 12 volts, but won't transfer much more than 16 amps. This is where the quality of the wires making up the jumper cables comes into play. I have seen jumper cables that have insulation as large as your thumb, but the insulation was thick and the wires inside the insulation were 1/8" in diameter. It was all insulation and almost no wire by comparison.

Excellent point.

My 12' homemade jumper cables that I made decades ago use heavy copper welding cable, I think they are 2 guage...pretty heavy copper...curious now, I am going to have to check what gauge they are. (just checked. #2 super flex welding cable).

 

[fried1765]

This is true. A voltage measurement of a battery unloaded is not of much value as far as determining if a battery can supply high load current.

BUT one "do it yourself" at home measurement that can be useful is measuring voltage AT THE BATTERY TERMINALS when trying to start the engine. Frequently, and maybe always, a weak battery will drop voltage at the TERMINALS when asked to supply high load current. At the terminals means the battery posts themselves, NOT the clamps on the terminals.

If the voltage drops significantly AT THE BATTERY TERMINALS when trying to start the engine, one is almost guaranteed that the battery is bad. IF the voltage does not drop, this likely indicates there is a bad connection somewhere, so the battery sees high resistance, and cannot/will not supply high current as the result. OR the circuit that causes the starter solenoid to energize is not working properly, so the high load current the starter demands is not asked for.

I have a 500 Amp carbon pile load tester.
They are not crazy expensive, and are easy to use.
It will load test any 12V battery, including my golf cart batteries (rated up to 1,000A).
Cannot test an EV battery "when trying to start the engine".

 

[DustyRusty]

Will it test the AAA battery in my television remote?

 

[fried1765]

Will it test the AAA battery in my television remote?

Sure it will!
That would be the SMOKE/SPARK/MELT test!