Making choices...

[motionclone]

[

Your example mixes apples and oranges.

YOUR beliefs cannot be allowed to prevent ME from having equal access to the marketplace. If you are baking cakes for the public…you cannot decide who gets a cake and who doesn’t simply because they have different beliefs than you.

As for the wedding scenario…. you use a church for the example. A church has members and has requirements for membership in it’s congregation. That church can have religious policies that determine weddings, funerals, and other ceremonies that must meet certain religious requirements.

If you used a commercial “wedding chapel” as the place for the ceremony instead of a church…then it would be a more equivalent comparison. A commercial wedding chapel offering services to the public can not discriminate based upon the wedded-couples beliefs.

lol you dont know what youre talking about.

 

[hagrid]

Doesn't matter.

If I can find a pear and a pineapple then we can have fruit cocktail.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: I think the bakery should sell the cake without question to ANY buyer who pays for the product. It's a standard product, you pay, you get.

So you walk into your Kubota dealer and demand him to sell you a John Deere....saying a 'tractor is a tractor'...
..think THAT will happen ??

BTW, there's huge rental company nearby that paints their Kubota excavtors, ugh, 'green'.......

 

[DustyRusty]

re: I think the bakery should sell the cake without question to ANY buyer who pays for the product. It's a standard product, you pay, you get.

So you walk into your Kubota dealer and demand him to sell you a John Deere....saying a 'tractor is a tractor'...
..think THAT will happen ??

BTW, there's huge rental company nearby that paints their Kubota excavtors, ugh, 'green'.......

Sunbelt???

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yeah, that's them.. rented a Kubota 80 series exacvator to my neighbour . Amazing all he needed was a credit card, $700 a day

 

[fried1765]

Sunbelt???

Around here, Sunbelt is a good company to rent (any color, as long as it is green) from.

 

[aaluck]

As for the wedding scenario…. you use a church for the example. A church has members and has requirements for membership in it’s congregation. That church can have religious policies that determine weddings, funerals, and other ceremonies that must meet certain religious requirements.

I don't think you realize that you have made my point, perfectly. These members of the church do not leave their 'religious policies' at the church when they go home or to work. Certainly you do not believe that you can only practice your religion while IN church. Are you not allowed to adhere to your religious beliefs at, I don't know, maybe a bakery you own?

 

[bmblank]

"Rights" are a list of things that are not to be taken away, though, not things that are to be given. It's the same way with health care. People don't have a right to health care because then that would be forcing other people to do things that they may or may not want to do. What people DO have is the right to ACCESS to health care.
People have the right to free expression. That means the government can't stop you from expressing what you want to express. You do not have the right to force others to express what you want them to - they also have the same right to their own expression.

The bill of rights is a list of things that the government cannot TAKE AWAY from you. They are not a list of things that the government must GIVE you.

 

[bmblank]

This is a 1st amendment right and the government has no business forcing people to do things that violate their religious beliefs, so long as it does not endanger others.

There, I fixed it for ya.

 

[aaluck]

The bill of rights is a list of things that the government cannot TAKE AWAY from you.

Exactly. Like the freedom of expression (free speech) and religion? The SCOTUS making someone do something that violates their religious beliefs IS taking away that right.

What I don't understand about all of this is the whole thing is moot. For a case to reach the SCOTUS takes years. Did these folks put off the wedding until they could force this guy to do the cake? I'm sure they went somewhere else and got their cake done--at least thats what a normal person would do.

 

[GeoHorn]

I don't think you realize that you have made my point, perfectly. These members of the church do not leave their 'religious policies' at the church when they go home or to work. Certainly you do not believe that you can only practice your religion while IN church. Are you not allowed to adhere to your religious beliefs at, I don't know, maybe a bakery you own?

Of COURSE you can practice your beliefs whereever you go…. as long as they do not impose on others.
What if you believe (certain “scientists” religions) that it is un-godly to give blood transfusions…but you are a hopital worker who has been told to retrieve blood from the cooler…? The person dying is being served by his tax-supported ER service…who normally gives blood transfusions when necessary.

The bakery is a Commercial Service…like the Wedding Chapel…. They are not serving Communion in their Church…they are selling cakes to the Public! And that is the difference.

 

[GeoHorn]

Exactly. Like the freedom of expression (free speech) and religion? The SCOTUS making someone do something that violates their religious beliefs IS taking away that right.

What I don't understand about all of this is the whole thing is moot. For a case to reach the SCOTUS takes years. Did these folks put off the wedding until they could force this guy to do the cake? I'm sure they went somewhere else and got their cake done--at least thats what a normal person would do.

SCOTUS is not ”making someone do something”. In the case of the bakery matter, SCOTUS was ruling against/negating a state-gov’t entity who acted improperly against the bakery. Different aspect of the case.

 

[Daren Todd]

Doesn't matter.

If I can find a pear and a pineapple then we can have fruit cocktail.

Don't forget the cherries!!!

 

[motionclone]

Of COURSE you can practice your beliefs whereever you go…. as long as they do not impose on others.
What if you believe (certain “scientists” religions) that it is un-godly to give blood transfusions…but you are a hopital worker who has been told to retrieve blood from the cooler…? The person dying is being served by his tax-supported ER service…who normally gives blood transfusions when necessary.

The bakery is a Commercial Service…like the Wedding Chapel…. They are not serving Communion in their Church…they are selling cakes to the Public! And that is the difference.

You still dont know what youre talking about

 

[bmblank]

SCOTUS is not ”making someone do something”. In the case of the bakery matter, SCOTUS was ruling against/negating a state-gov’t entity who acted improperly against the bakery. Different aspect of the case.

Yes. While I celebrated the ruling, I did not celebrate the reasoning behind the ruling. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was kinda like an innocent man on trial for murder being found not guilty on a technicality. He was never really vindicated, and this ruling does little to stop it from happening again.

 

[lugbolt]

It depends on a lot of things

IME, yes you can turn jobs away if you're not under a contract, however even if you aren't you have to be careful as to why you turn jobs away, and how you do it.

For instance if I say I'm booked up for 1 year, that is a "yes I'll do it" to the customer, and he or she will show up a year later wanting it done. BTDT. They only understand that "Yes I'll do it part". Now you're obligated to that job no matter what.

Honesty really is the best policy. Unless you're dealing with a liberal then they expect you to lie to em and if you tell em the truth, you're going to get sued, the media will blast you, you will be forced to close up shop and disappear from the face of the Earth forever, never to be found again. If you fail in doing that, they'll find you and make sure the remainder of your life is miserable.

So as long as you're not obligated in some way, yes you can turn jobs away but no you can't. There. That's the correct answer.

Aint our country "great"?

As someone who works with the public in three separate jobs, I can say with certainty that working with the public, you have to choose your words, mannerisms, actions, etc very wisely. Even here, there is always "one" that will try to ruin you and everything you've worked for, for their own personal gain--and some of that is because there are attorneys and judges who will let them get away with it for their own gains. Case in point the news lady wants me to take her fishing this coming springtime and wants to bring the camera crew along. I've dealt with them (but not these exact people) in the past and while "fame" is sorta sought after by some, once I got the small taste of it and what it really is, I wanted no more to do with it.

Oh and by the way on transfusions and religion, I had a neighbor that was of a belief that taking blood from someone else was highly frowned upon. That person had some health issues such that transfusion was the only way they were going to survive. This person was not old enough to make their own decisions so the parents, also with the same set of beliefs, refused the transfusion and the girl died because of it. 14 years old.

 

[David Page]

You can refuse to do work for anybody, the 'trick' is in HOW and WHAT you say as to WHY you won't !!

The bakery bs is a good example.
I think they said 'sorry, we don't make cakes for queers' or something similar...
THAT was a HUGE mistake....goes against 'freedoms or something....'
SHOULD have said 'sorry, we're really booked up , I don't think we can do it for (3 months ) or some time past their date.

Now if for some unknown reason you do get stuck doing the job, simply do it as a 'fill in', telling them 'when I get some free time, I'll get to it, might be several months, I do have priority clients and sometime emergency jobs that have to be done first, really can't promise a 'finish date'. Be sure this is all written into the contract you write up. Check other contracts...they have clauses for floods, fires, war, riots , etc. ADD those as well.....

The Baker did work for them regularly but the specific occasion was against his personal beliefs.

 

[David Page]

re: I think the bakery should sell the cake without question to ANY buyer who pays for the product. It's a standard product, you pay, you get.

So you walk into your Kubota dealer and demand him to sell you a John Deere....saying a 'tractor is a tractor'...
..think THAT will happen ??

BTW, there's huge rental company nearby that paints their Kubota excavtors, ugh, 'green'.......

They wanted a cake made for a wedding, the Baker served them in all other ways but the wedding cake went against his beliefs.

 

[David Page]

Our founders placed enormous emphasis on personal religious freedom. Would we force a Quaker to serve in the military if we were being attacked?

 

[GeoHorn]

You still dont know what youre talking about

You keep posting stoopid childish stuff like this…but you don’t have any legitimate response.