Making choices...

[GeoHorn]

Sorry fried…I was editing for clarity while you were thinking hard for your best comment…. .

 

[Yooper]

I was in business for over thirty years. Learning how to say no to a customer is harder than most people think. And if you don’t do it carefully it can have its implications. I believe Kmart did a study that a good experience equals four people being told. But a bad experience equals thirteen people. IOW, bad news travels way farther than good news.

But sometimes you have to fire the customer. It usually follows a pattern of unreasonable expectations followed by slow to pay. Or they keep beating you down on price to the point where it just is not worth your time. Usually they end up coming back when they find out you get what you pay for.

Unless it is a contract the best way to deal with them is just say you are too busy to give them any kind of service. If they press you further you can negotiate new terms and see how they react. Then you move on from there

 

[Benhameen]

I worked in a field where we had to sell our products by law to licensed customers and in turn they had to buy from us and I still managed to tell people no. Not necessarily on selling them the product but on things they felt “owed” or wanted because our competitors were doing it. Typically, these were technically illegal request but generally fell into a “grey” area of how the law is written. Our company used said laws to our advantage in order to say no often. Our license to sell, said products, was at risk for breaking the laws. We were able to use the law in order to stay in business and be as profitable as possible. While not an easy task or a popular one with most of our customers it is possible to say no or refuse a request.
I had lots of uncomfortable conversations during my 20 years in that industry. Somehow I managed to end up being the “no” guy. Someone have an unreasonable request, send in Ben, he’ll take care of it. Glad I’ve moved on and not in that position anymore.

 

[Biker1mike]

clipped
A large handful of harmless salt or alum in “specialty cake” recipies. could have been a lot cheaper and made the point… and probably reduced future requests from a particular line of customers.

A missed deadline might also suffice. One can choose one’s battles, ya’ know?

Of course if you hired a vendor for your extra special day you would have no problem that they 'tainted' your food just because you are white and have an orange tractor ?

 

[fried1765]

Of course if you hired a vendor for your extra special day you would have no problem that they 'tainted' your food just because you are white and have an orange tractor ?

I strongly suspect that selling intentionally tainted food may actually be a felony.

 

[RCW]

I ran a catering business for my employer for a while. He was a sole proprietor. Became a good friend that was in my own wedding. We did weddings, company picnics, clambakes, etc.

Like others said, it's hard to turn down work. Oddly, we had a couple large corporate accounts we swore off after we had trouble getting paid. Often, I'd do some major "local" events leaving with cash in my back pocket.....often $6-8k...

 

[Henro]

True…but the bakery made their own “freedom of choice” to spend money on a ridiculous lawsuit instead of simply baking a damn cake.

Not sure I could get the rest of GeoHorn's post, but this sentence says a lot of the way I think about things...Granted we have to stand up for our beliefs, whatever they may be.

But unless we have excess cash it might be better to save the attorney's fees. Just my take on it.

Now if I were the baker, I might "mistakenly" use salt in place of sugar when mixing the cake batter..."Oh! So sorry, unfortunate mistake. Here is your money back. Sorry we spoiled your wedding. Sincere apologies..."

Edit: But I really would just bake the cake and wish them well. Just my personal nature...

 

[Biker1mike]

I strongly suspect that selling intentionally tainted food may actually be a felony.

Tainted does not need to mean poison. Just make disagreeable. Nice dodge. But did not answer my question.

 

[motionclone]

True…but the bakery made their own “freedom of choice” to spend money on a ridiculous lawsuit instead of simply baking a damn cake.

One can choose one’s battles, ya’ know?

Not sure I could get the rest of GeoHorn's post, but this sentence says a lot of the way I think about things...Granted we have to stand up for our beliefs, whatever they may be.

But unless we have excess cash it might be better to save the attorney's fees. Just my take on it.

What are you and geohorn even talking about???? The baker got SUED in the begining by a gay couple because he refused to bake a cake for them. he won at the supreme court but how much did that cost him? NOW that same baker is getting SUED again because he refused to make a trangender reveal cake.

Christian Baker Sued Again for Refusing to Bake a Cake - Christianity Today

Masterpiece Cakeshop owner is now in a legal battle with a customer who put in an order to celebrate her gender transition.

www.christianitytoday.com

 

[Henro]

What are you and geohorn even talking about????

I guess what I am talking about is common sense and money use...

Hey, if someone has money to burn paying lawyers, good for them. I don't really, so if it were me I would bake the cake!

 

[motionclone]

I guess what I am talking about is common sense and money use...

Hey, if someone has money to burn paying lawyers, good for them. I don't really, so if it were me I would bake the cake!

Good for you but a lot of people have religious principles and the gov shouldnt get to decide that those principles matter less than a protected groups needs.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Here is the simple smell test, change it to another product then does it make sense? This is OTT, should orange or the orange dealers sell tractors as build to order no matter the request? Should they get sued for lack of filling a customers request for a paint color they don’t offer or an emblem they don’t source or sell? Should an orange dealer be sued for not selling a green tractor? Of course not. They sell orange tractors. If you want a different color go to the dealer that advertises the color you prefer. To me it’s just that simple. Do all the social media companies owe free speech? Or should everyone silenced or suppressed have a legitimate right to sue? Of course not…no one forcing you to be their customer. Can you order a straight or gay sandwich at mcdonalds? No they have sandwiches. Can you order a straight or gay piece of pie or cake at your favorite restaurant? Should they all be sued? The issue is forcing someone to make sell or service something they don’t advertise. If you want a cake buy a cake. I’ve never been to any sort of buy/sell/service transaction where gender / preference comes up. I suspect the baker in the story did not ask either.

 

[Henro]

Good for you but a lot of people have religious principles and the gov shouldnt get to decide that those principles matter less than a protected groups needs.

I agree I think. I believe I said previously we should just be able to refuse to work for anyone if we so decide. But there is always a practical aspect to whatever decisions we make.

Refusal comes at a cost in some cases like the one in question. Good for them if they are willing to spend the money to make a point. But they should not have to. It should be a simple "go somewhere else..."

 

[Biker1mike]

Good for you but a lot of people have religious principles and the gov shouldnt get to decide that those principles matter less than a protected groups needs.

"We the people" decided that all men are created equal and we also have an amendment that says you can not discriminate based on religion , etc..
Just because my religious beliefs differ from yours does not give you the right to refuse me service based on that difference.
Mutual respect is not really that hard.

 

[motionclone]

"We the people" decided that all men are created equal and we also have an amendment that says you can not discriminate based on religion , etc..
Just because my religious beliefs differ from yours does not give you the right to refuse me service based on that difference.
Mutual respect is not really that hard.

What amendment says a person cannot discriminate against someone else???? Have you ever read the constitution or the declaration of independance? FOUNDING DOCUMENTS

 

[GeoHorn]

What are you and geohorn even talking about???? The baker got SUED in the begining by a gay couple because he refused to bake a cake for them. he won at the supreme court but how much did that cost him? NOW that same baker is getting SUED again because he refused to make a trangender reveal cake.

Christian Baker Sued Again for Refusing to Bake a Cake - Christianity Today

Masterpiece Cakeshop owner is now in a legal battle with a customer who put in an order to celebrate her gender transition.

www.christianitytoday.com

Sounds like Masterpiece Bakery has a short memory.

I thought twice about posting in its’ entirety my earlier post… I suspected it might raise hackles… but I was not suggesting anyone to ”taint” food. I was suggesting that an error might occur in the recipe. Neither salt nor alum are items I consider “taint”…since both are common ingredients used in pastries.
I admit it would be a “sneaky” way to discourage a particular customer’s business.

But Masterpiece Bakery clearly has some stoopidity if they cannot figure out what is legal operations and what is not and/or how to legally turn away business. If they want to spend money on lawyers then they should hire one to advise them how to accomplish that goal.

I turned away a foreigners request for flight training once because I was suspicious as to their true intent. Simple matter to notify the authorities as to the behavior which I didn’t care for. End of story…. after the interviews they underwent that person had no further desire to do business with me. I’m pretty certain there are simple ways to turn away undesired pastry-business.

Unless of course one is repeatedly stoopid.

 

[Biker1mike]

What amendment says a person cannot discriminate against someone else???? Have you ever read the constitution or the declaration of independance? FOUNDING DOCUMENTS

Your are correct , the state " nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

 

[Biker1mike]

Your are correct , the state can not " nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. "

 

[Biker1mike]

Here is the simple smell test, change it to another product then does it make sense? This is OTT, should orange or the orange dealers sell tractors as build to order no matter the request? Should they get sued for lack of filling a customers request for a paint color they don’t offer or an emblem they don’t source or sell? Should an orange dealer be sued for not selling a green tractor? Of course not. They sell orange tractors. If you want a different color go to the dealer that advertises the color you prefer. To me it’s just that simple. Do all the social media companies owe free speech? Or should everyone silenced or suppressed have a legitimate right to sue? Of course not…no one forcing you to be their customer. Can you order a gay sandwich at mcdonalds? Can you order a gay piece of pie or cake at your favorite restaurant? Should they all be sued? The issue is forcing someone to make sell or service something they don’t advertise. If you want a cake buy a cake. I’ve never been to any sort of buy/sell/service transaction where gender / preference comes up. I suspect the baker in the story did not ask either.

The problem arises when the orange tractor dealer refuses to sell to a gay farmer because the dealer does not believe gays should farm.
Or switch gay with black or hispanic.

 

[Biker1mike]

Given me a headache and time to move on.
But
As an Firefighter/EMT I was never asked my religion or sexual orientation when I walked in with my crash bag ! Did have a few people tell me they were HIV positive before I stated working with them but it never slowed me down or made me think less of them.