only 25 days of diesel fuel left

[GeoHorn]

Three weeks of gas/diesel is enough to assure uninterrupted transportation within our economy?
Living very close to the edge!

You are obviously too young to remember gas rationing (sugar etc.).
Some months ago three weeks of toilet paper was not enough.
Apparently absolutely nothing has been retained from that little lesson!

I was working as an air line captain during the ‘73 embargo and certainly do remember it well.

 

[jyoutz]

Here's why.

Say we need to replenish half of the 714,000,000 barrels, or about 350,000,000 barrels. In March-August 2020 oil was an average of about $35/barrel. Today, hovering at an average of about $85. My calculator gives me an error at the price difference, but I believe that its $17,000,000,000. But your right, whats another wasted 17 trillion.

People need to wake up. This HUGE cost difference just doesn't appear from thin air (well I guess it does they will just print more)--thats why.

Further, what if we need that oil. It is meant for our military purposes not for trying to lower gas by $0.11/gallon for a couple of months to try and win an election

Read about the purpose for the strategic oil reserve:

“The Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR), the world's largest supply of emergency crude oil was established primarily to reduce the impact of disruptions in supplies of petroleum products and to carry out obligations of the United States under the international energy program.”

https://www.energy.gov › ceser › st...
Strategic Petroleum Reserve - Department of Energy

 

[BruceP]

Be aware, the New England states consume HUGE amount of home heating oil over the next 5 months.
Home heating fuel is EXACTLY the same stuff we call "Offroad Diesel Fuel". Most household fuel tanks are 275 gallons and there are 1000s of homes to be filled up.

What this means is, your "25 days" may drop to about 5 days over the next few weeks.

I realize the cost is going thrugh the roof.... lets all pray there is not also a shortage. The result may literally be people freezing to death in their sleep.

 

[jyoutz]

Be aware, the New England states consume HUGE amount of home heating oil over the next 5 months.
Home heating fuel is EXACTLY the same stuff we call "Offroad Diesel Fuel". Most household fuel tanks are 275 gallons and there are 1000s of homes to be filled up.

What this means is, your "25 days" may drop to about 5 days over the next few weeks.

I realize the cost is going thrugh the roof.... lets all pray there is not also a shortage. The result may literally be people freezing to death in their sleep.

I’ve always wondered why heating with oil burners are favored in the northeast, but not other places in the country? In the mountain west, in locations where natural gas is unavailable, people heat with propane or wood. In the Pacific Northwest people heat with electricity because of cheap hydropower.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

why ? might be a 'historical' thing.... when the NE was built, oil was cheap,oil furnaces cheap....couldn't dig for NG pipes to houses ?? and.. to convert to some 'ecomomicl' energy could cost a LOT of money. Money the average Joe ain't got....

 

[The Evil Twin]

Why are you fixated on this? It’s bought when oil prices dip and used when oil prices are high. US oil production this year is at the same level as 2019 and planned to set a new record in 2023. But worldwide prices are still high and because we export oil and fuel, the US prices are subject t

Lol, who is fixated on this? I just made a sarcastic remark. That was all.
Look at the data dude. It hasn't been replenished when prices are low.
Regardless, the SPR is not for lowering pump prices a nickle or dime. It's not to score bonus points with a political base.
Lest I become "fixated" any further, I'll let you have the last word

 

[jyoutz]

Lol, who is fixated on this? I just made a sarcastic remark. That was all.
Look at the data dude. It hasn't been replenished when prices are low.
Regardless, the SPR is not for lowering pump prices a nickle or dime. It's not to score bonus points with a political base.
Lest I become "fixated" any further, I'll let you have the last word

Go ahead and read the link I posted regarding the purpose. It’s not for the military. The link explains the program very well.

 

[Flintknapper]

Go ahead and read the link I posted regarding the purpose. It’s not for the military. The link explains the program very well.

Its not 'expressly' for the Military, it is there to help control the economy and fuel availability in any manner needed (war, hurricanes, earthquake, anything that threatens the economy in a significant way).

The Military has only NPR#3 (that I am aware of) for its petroleum reserves. It produces a paltry 200 barrels a day. The U.S. Military is the largest institutionalized consumer of oil at roughly 100 Million barrels a year.

Where do suppose that would come from if normal channels were disrupted?

 

[BruceP]

I’ve always wondered why heating with oil burners are favored in the northeast, but not other places in the country?

I can only speak for Vermont..... Historically, there was no large source of coal like in Pennsylvania/Ohio so Heating-Fuel was quickly adopted over wood.

More recently -- It is mainly the 'environmentalists' who have blocked Natural Gas distribution.
You are correct that there is plenty of NaturalGas from Canada and they are eager to sell it to us.

HOWEVER: When they tried to bring the pipeline down from Canada the 'greenies' showed up by the busload. They carried signs, chained themselves to equipment and trees brought army of lawyers to challenge EVERY plot of land the pipeline went through.

The 'greenies' largely stopped NG distribution across Vermont.

In the end.... The pipeline goes from Canada passes thru Vermont down supplying New Hampshire and Mass.

Personally: I was fortunate in that my home was near the NG line passing infront of my house. I got a "deal" where the NG company paid for ALL installation costs. I converted my water-heat and clothes dryer to NG to take advantage of the free installation. The gas company even paid to convert my oil-furnace over to NG. I even got a free chimney relining.

My annual costs were cut down about 40% of what it used to be. (No more heating oil, electric bill MUCH lower)

 

[fried1765]

I was working as an air line captain during the ‘73 embargo and certainly do remember it well.

Hired in '67
I was flying DC-10 F/O

 

[i7win7]

I’ve always wondered why heating with oil burners are favored in the northeast, but not other places in the country?

Used fuel oil for 50 years until stove wore out. As long as you have gravity/oil to keep combustion chamber "wet" you have heat. Converted to wood pellets 10 yrs ago. Needs 180 watts every hour to run it. Been making firewood in case of grid failure and gen. gas can't be purchased.

 

[jyoutz]

Its not 'expressly' for the Military, it is there to help control the economy and fuel availability in any manner needed (war, hurricanes, earthquake, anything that threatens the economy in a significant way).

The Military has only NPR#3 (that I am aware of) for its petroleum reserves. It produces a paltry 200 barrels a day. The U.S. Military is the largest institutionalized consumer of oil at roughly 100 Million barrels a year.

Where do suppose that would come from if normal channels were disrupted?

Where would it come from? The US refineries on the gulf coast and Permian basin. The military would have priority over other sales. But you are correct in that the reserves have a number of purposes. Help

I can only speak for Vermont..... Historically, there was no large source of coal like in Pennsylvania/Ohio so Heating-Fuel was quickly adopted over wood.

More recently -- It is mainly the 'environmentalists' who have blocked Natural Gas distribution.
You are correct that there is plenty of NaturalGas from Canada and they are eager to sell it to us.

HOWEVER: When they tried to bring the pipeline down from Canada the 'greenies' showed up by the busload. They carried signs, chained themselves to equipment and trees brought army of lawyers to challenge EVERY plot of land the pipeline went through.

The 'greenies' largely stopped NG distribution across Vermont.

In the end.... The pipeline goes from Canada passes thru Vermont down supplying New Hampshire and Mass.

Personally: I was fortunate in that my home was near the NG line passing infront of my house. I got a "deal" where the NG company paid for ALL installation costs. I converted my water-heat and clothes dryer to NG to take advantage of the free installation. The gas company even paid to convert my oil-furnace over to NG. I even got a free chimney relining.

My annual costs were cut down about 40% of what it used to be. (No more heating oil, electric bill MUCH lower)

I know what you must have felt to convert to NG. I had a forced air furnace running on propane. After one winter I bought a wood pellet stove and only used the furnace when we were away from home. The cost of propane was more than wood pellets. Last year I paid a contractor to run natural gas from the road 1500’ across my property to the house. I sold the pellet stove and bought a natural gas fireplace/stove for aesthetics and converted the furnace to NG. I originally thought the fireplace would just be for aesthetics, but discovered that with the blower on the stove it will heat the house except during the dead of winter. Now our monthly gas bill is $58 for the next year under the level payment plan. I spent double that on propane monthly. It’s hard to beat NG heat if you have access to it.

 

[Flintknapper]

Where would it come from? The US refineries on the gulf coast and Permian basin. The military would have priority over other sales. But you are correct in that the reserves have a number of purposes. Help

Precisely what happens. In war time... domestic inventories are used by the military (on a priority basis) creating a shortage (in some cases) which must then be drawn from the strategic reserves for the rest of the country to use.

IF some other catastrophe should happen at the same time (major storm in the gulf) shutting down production, then the strategic reserves could be directly accessed by the military (upon order of the POTUS).

So having adequate reserves (just in case) is indeed a National Security concern. I agree when instituted in 1975 the main purpose for it was to insure we did not suffer another situation like the Oil Embargo created. I remember it all too well. But make no mistake...the reserves are there for any emergency situation.

This would NOT include creating a more favorable position for election/reelection of any political party. But politicians (both sides) being what they are....will play any game they can get away with.

 

[DustyRusty]

You beat me to it. He'll look like a genius saving the country just prior to election day! Thanks Joe! or is it Jose'?

Or, perhaps that may be too political and the comment should be stricken from the record.

This thread already has had a bunch of posts removed from it. It is unfortunate that they were removed because they contained important information as to the thinking and logic of the people involved in discussing this matter.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Go ahead and read the link I posted regarding the purpose. It’s not for the military. The link explains the program very well.

Ok, ya lured me in again. ...
Exactly! Thank you for posting that to prove my point. (I never said it was for military purposes, for those following along at home. Check my posts).
By your own word, there is not an issue with supply. As quoted in post 12:

US oil production this year is at the same level as 2019 and planned to set a new record in 2023.

Anyone that reads the entirety of the mission of the SPR (link that you provided) would see that the recent releases do not meet that mission statement.

 

[DustyRusty]

I would like to see the original mission statements that were made when the petroleum reserves were originally created. I'll bet that it is a world of difference then compared to the statements today.

 

[jkrubi12]

Great thread!

VERY disappointed to learn that a 'bunch of posts' have been 'removed' because I feel that this is quite an informative and important subject matter.

'25 days of diesel' is certainly a very alarming disclosure and prompted me to top off my diesel tanks and go fill my 'cans' even though the price is higher than almost ever.....I believe that it's likely to climb even more!

It sucks that a major contributor to this issue is a lack of refining capability in the U.S. but it really sucks that our 'leaders' would address this problem with an eye towards the 'party line'.

 

[Biker1mike]

I would like to see the original mission statements that were made when the petroleum reserves were originally created. I'll bet that it is a world of difference then compared to the statements today.

Start with this. 1975 Energy Policy and Conservation Act (EPCA)

 

[fried1765]

Used fuel oil for 50 years until stove wore out. As long as you have gravity/oil to keep combustion chamber "wet" you have heat. Converted to wood pellets 10 yrs ago. Needs 180 watts every hour to run it. Been making firewood in case of grid failure and gen. gas can't be purchased.

I have a different (better?) fix.
FL ...Nov 1st to May 1st.
It has worked well for me over the past 26 years, (no oil or gas heat $ needed) and will obviously be a much more dramatic $ saving this year.

 

[GeoHorn]

(I have kept up with this thread and have not seen any posts suddenly “missing” which pertain to the topic instead of blatant political propaganda.)

The Strategic Reserve link is pretty clear that it’s main purpose was to prevent disruptions of CIVILIAN/ECONOMICS. Its’ SECONDARY purpose is Nat’l Emergency/Military.

POTUS is held accountable for the ”Economy” far beyond what is actual and probable, so POTUS will react to public pressure …EXACTLY AS EXPECTED and As Charged by that public.

The “economy” we now have did not start in 2020. It started in 2018-2019 when the pandemic began large influences on the workplaces which have resulted in shortages. Supply and Demand are still the Ecomomic Drivers and presently the administration is reacting to public pressure.

Meanwhile, in this thread I’m reading the posts of Chicken Little relatives who are witnessing a public with Huge Buying Power (money) created Huge Demand…. for reduced Supply…. keeping Inflation at near 7%. The U.S. relies more and more on foreign-produced-goods which require Transportation which requires Fuel which we have Plenty of Reserve… but which reserves suffer this year JUST LIKE ALL YEARS PREVIOUS …. seasonal cycles as refiners convert from Spring/Summer gasoline to Fall/Winter heating products. Nothing New.

But Chicken Little’s relatives are trying to start a “shortage/panic club” when the problem is the 53% increased Profits by Big Oil simply “because they can”…and POTUS has recently made public statements critical of Big Corporations who are keeping prices artificially high when Supply issues are relieved and Inventories are actually Good….so they can buy-back their own Stocks and pay themselves Dividends…instead of reducing prices …because (as previously mentioned)…. because CONSUMERS have Huge Buying Power (money) and are buying-up anything-and-everything as fast as possible because they perceive the “SKY IS FALLING” (despite the fact a tax-break was offered energy companies to convert Chicken Little’s nephew to N.G. on the cheap, and “free” (to Him….)

Folks, we can’t have it Both Ways. We can’t have politicians who we claim we want to represent us and keep our economy healthy…..and at the same time complain they’re taking actions to do just-that), and us complain about it.

We also need to be smarter about who and why we vote for them….

If you want to go back to the times of Theocracy with Dark-Ages Repression …then keep voting for politicians that push those agendas using conspiracy theories and spread untruths.

As the farmer said: Don’t complain about food prices with your mouth full.