New(ish) Kubota M62 With Filthy Hydraulic Oil

[Putneymountain]

around 2015-ish there were a few tractors that showed up at the shop with the exact same thing. Contamination. Came from the factory that way.

Wasn't very many of them, maybe a dozen total (out of about 400 they sold that year), so mostly isolated. Kubota picked up the tab on all of them-and we were advised that it was isolated to a certain number of them, we just happened to have more than other dealers in the area. Not a big deal, drain & refill twice, they never showed up again for any other problem. Some guys waited til the 200hr interval and knocked that out, kubota paying for it. Nice!

I can't recall seeing any of the M62's with this issue. Mostly L3301/3901 and one L4701.

Tractors that sit a lot, or get used infrequently and for shorter amounts of time such that the fluids never really get warm, this can absolutely happen. Just moisture that gets suspended and no black stone won't pick it up as water; or never did in the many times I've had them tested.

Lugbolt:
Thanks - it sure sounds similar to our situation.
Back in 2015 - did anyone have any idea as to the cause?
PutneyMountain

 

[Putneymountain]

This tractor is garaged when not in use - but I wash it frequently, could that be the source of water contamination? How would it get in?

The oil sample report is likely on the correct sample and had 0% water...but I'll do the hot skillet test as well.

thanks.

 

[Putneymountain]

Update - sizzle test for water is between negative and 0.05 - 0.1% 500-1000 ppm. It was zero with Blackstone.

 

[The Evil Twin]

One easy qualitative test for water content is to heat your wife's best skillet to almost smoking hot and pour a small sample of the used oil into it. If the sample pops, bubbles, and hisses when it contacts the hot metal surface test results are positive for water.

Dan

You have to be shirtless and stand REALLY close for this method to work

 

[GeoHorn]

It may be the tractor was WASHED USING A PRESSURE-WASHER. That is never a good idea unless one knows where to AVOID aiming the wand.

 

[Putneymountain]

No use of a pressure washer.

FYI - first of what will be 3 changes of the hydraulic fluid completed. This will cost about $1000 ....

 

[ruger1980]

For flushing I would use an inexpensive UTTO as it will take many changes to rid the water from the system. Remember a large part of the oil in the system is tied up in the HST case and the cylinders.
The best way is either complete disassembly or selectively disconnecting one line at a time starting and flushing that circuit. Very labor intensive and still requires a considerable quantity of oil.

Blackstone's water test may very well be visual. It is most likely for water not in suspension which this is and water in suspension will test as insolubles.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Catch me up SMEs…I am still sort of curious how would water get in the system if not through the fill caps?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Catch me up SMEs…I am still sort of curious how would water get in the system if not through the fill caps?

The most common way - condensation.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Update - sizzle test for water is between negative and 0.05 - 0.1% 500-1000 ppm. It was zero with Blackstone.

Apparently Blackstone was wrong. What sort of water testing do they do for a standard test? The Karl Fisher test is an additional $38.....

Dan

 

[Putneymountain]

Just to clarify - the sizzle test was likely negative.

I'm a bit confused by the recommendation to take apart the hydraulic system in a tractor still undeer warranty.

Current plan is to change the fluid 3 times and then re-test.

 

[fried1765]

Just to clarify - the sizzle test was likely negative.

I'm a bit confused by the recommendation to take apart the hydraulic system in a tractor still undeer warranty.

Current plan is to change the fluid 3 times and then re-test.

Don't take it apart !!!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Just to clarify - the sizzle test was likely negative.

I'm a bit confused by the recommendation to take apart the hydraulic system in a tractor still undeer warranty.

Current plan is to change the fluid 3 times and then re-test.

Good plan.

Dan

 

[Putneymountain]

We’ve been getting all the advice we can and I think the explanation from rScotty sounds right – “Kubota delivered without flushing or adequately flushing the hydraulic system”- we know that the dealer didn’t do most/all of the dealer prep because of other things that got missed.

We’re doing multiple changes right now and the machine will go into the shop for flushing at the first snowfall.

The oil that came out after the first change and about 10 hours of use looked filthy again.

 

[Russell King]

You may want to try to flush out the pump and other hydraulic parts from a clean pail of fluid next change

See this thread for general idea

Your tractor probably pumps a lot of GPM so may need to be careful or have someone replenishing the bucket as it is pumped out and someone manning the kill switch

 

[Putneymountain]

UPDATE

I’m not gonna say this is the most fun we’ve ever had with a new tractor.

To review:

• We noticed at about 200 hours that the hydraulic oil on our new M62 looked less translucent than we were used to - did an oil change and it looked pretty awful (see previous pictures).
• Sent it off for analysis (see attached) September of 2022 and it came back with the insoluble’s four times over the upper limit.
• Kubota helpline was completely not helpful. Out-of-state dealer that we purchased it from also not helpful.
• Kubota says the hydraulic systems of new tractors ARE NOT flushed prior to delivery.
• Did two complete changes of the hydraulic oil and filters ($600) and then sent the tractor to the nearby dealer for an “hydraulic washout” - $600 transport fee - when the tractor got to the dealer we found out that the washout would not be covered under warranty and would cost thousands of dollars.
• Regional representative told dealer that this is normal for the hydraulic fluid in a new Kubota tractor.
• Paid for another complete hydraulic oil and filter exchange. Now insoluble’s are just slightly above the recommended limit (see attached).
• Blackstone is recommending another change of the hydraulic oil filters.

Questions?

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Any idea what’s going on - is this normal?

Should we change the hydraulic filters again?

Should we change the hydraulic oil again?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Motion]

Was the fluid and fiters changed at 50 hours, if it didn't look bad the something happened between changes, was any fluid using (besides theFEL) attachments used in that period? As always do as you feel is best but I would do just a filter change (no fluid). Do you have a third function or remotes, if so consider a side stream filter (high filtration) to help remove contaminants. I believe you need more than 15 hours of hard work to ensure everything is getting into solution. Does your hydraulic filters have magnets, anything on them? When draining the oil are you removing ALLl drain points?

 

[Orange man hero]

One easy qualitative test for water content is to heat your wife's best skillet to almost smoking hot and pour a small sample of the used oil into it. If the sample pops, bubbles, and hisses when it contacts the hot metal surface test results are positive for water.

If caught in the act by said wife tell her you are simply trying out an interesting YouTube tip you found for seasoning fine cookware. Personally I don't have to worry in that regard because my wife does not know what cookware, fine or otherwise, is.....

Edit: Here is a good HowTo for this:

Monitor Water-In-Oil with the Visual Crackle Test

Moisture in hydraulic fluids and lubricating oils has a degrading effect on both the lubricant and the machine. While some additives cling to the water and are removed when the water separates from...

www.machinerylubrication.com

Dan

Jap Engineers say use a cheap oil and change it often.

 

[GrizBota]

UPDATE

I’m not gonna say this is the most fun we’ve ever had with a new tractor.

To review:

• We noticed at about 200 hours that the hydraulic oil on our new M62 looked less translucent than we were used to - did an oil change and it looked pretty awful (see previous pictures).
• Sent it off for analysis (see attached) September of 2022 and it came back with the insoluble’s four times over the upper limit.
• Kubota helpline was completely not helpful. Out-of-state dealer that we purchased it from also not helpful.
• Kubota says the hydraulic systems of new tractors ARE NOT flushed prior to delivery.
• Did two complete changes of the hydraulic oil and filters ($600) and then sent the tractor to the nearby dealer for an “hydraulic washout” - $600 transport fee - when the tractor got to the dealer we found out that the washout would not be covered under warranty and would cost thousands of dollars.
• Regional representative told dealer that this is normal for the hydraulic fluid in a new Kubota tractor.
• Paid for another complete hydraulic oil and filter exchange. Now insoluble’s are just slightly above the recommended limit (see attached).
• Blackstone is recommending another change of the hydraulic oil filters.

Questions?

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Any idea what’s going on - is this normal?

Should we change the hydraulic filters again?

Should we change the hydraulic oil again?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I’m not much help, but I can say it is not normal. My L had 550 hours on the fluid and is looked fine, honey colored. My B at 50 hours had fluid that looked the same as the new stuff in the one gallon jug of super UDT2 that I topped up the fluid lost due to the filter change (with the unit still full of fluid). My L runs a FEL I take on and off regularly. It also has a 3rd function that runs a grapple, although that’s a newer addition this spring.

Only someone with a financial stake in the matter would say oil that looks like what you’ve removed is “normal”. It’s any thing but normal. Too bad that guy’s integrity is for sale for the wholesale price of a few (or 10) pails of fluid.

If I were going to change the fluid three times, I’d just change the filters when I was done with that. Mainly due to cost.

As you know, changing the fluid leaves a bit in that doesn’t come out. On my L, the specs say 11.4 gallons and only 9.4 gallons came out and it read full when I started and I pulled all four drain plugs. Based on that, I think my unit would still have about 10% old fluid in it after 3 changes.

Maybe check the case vent to make sure it’s open to both positive and negative pressure variations.

 

[John D 2]

If I heated one of my wife's best skillet's to red hot then poured used hydraulic oil in it to see the results there would be some definite pops, bubbles and hissing noises.

But it wouldn't have anything to do with the oil in the skillet.