Kubota UDT substitute
- Thread starter Guy JR
- Start date
Interesting, their spec sheet says Amalie Ultra All-Trac 245 meets or exceeds the following specifications:Kubota UDT and Super UDT
And what specification is it that they say that it meets? Viscosity? My goodness I can mix engine oil and diesel and get similar viscosity and if that's the only specification that I have to meet, then I met it.
Feel free to mix your own oil up for your tractor, but for me, I wouldn't put anything in unless there was clear indication by the manufacturer that it met or exceeded Kubota's specifications. To meet or exceed it has to do it for all.
Some info here about kubota's oil if you have some spare cash
http://papers.sae.org/972788/
http://papers.sae.org/972788/
Last edited:
CaveCreekRay
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3800 HST, KingKutter box scraper, KingKutter 66" rake, County Pride Subsoiler
Having spent the last 36+ years married to a Cost/Benefits Analyst, I kinda think like her now. (It's from getting that "look" for all these years. You married guys know what I mean...
)
What is to be gained from buying an alternative brand hydraulic oil (an essentially critical fluid) for my machine? How often do I change it? How much do I save? What are the risks associated for going with an alternative fluid? Operability? Potential internal damage? Nuisance leaks?
To me, the benefits of $100-$150 saved every 400 hours of operation do not offset the potential costs associated with damaging internal seals or components that need additives contained in the OEM fluid. Even with the apparent outstanding test results of AMSOIL on basic attributes, I cannot be sure AMSOIL has the additives that the OEM products has. Wear out a special rubber seal that relies on a proprietary additive and you are not broken but leaking like a piggy. Same result.
The risk simply does not outweigh the small cost savings.
)What is to be gained from buying an alternative brand hydraulic oil (an essentially critical fluid) for my machine? How often do I change it? How much do I save? What are the risks associated for going with an alternative fluid? Operability? Potential internal damage? Nuisance leaks?
To me, the benefits of $100-$150 saved every 400 hours of operation do not offset the potential costs associated with damaging internal seals or components that need additives contained in the OEM fluid. Even with the apparent outstanding test results of AMSOIL on basic attributes, I cannot be sure AMSOIL has the additives that the OEM products has. Wear out a special rubber seal that relies on a proprietary additive and you are not broken but leaking like a piggy. Same result.
The risk simply does not outweigh the small cost savings.
CJ-4 is CJ-4, UDT is UDT. If it wasn't the class action vultures would be all over those companies as they have deep pockets. Sure, some exceed the standard(s) and that gets 'discussed.' If you notice they seem to be the ones that buy off brand sockets. Square bolts and round holes.
Yes, Service Dept Vic did, but on 07-31-2009 Service Dept Vic posted (see post # 5) ***8220;Ok, I'm sold. It's SUDT in this shop from now on! Send the bill to Mr. K. He'll know what to do with it! ***8220; This I assume was Vic's responce to Ob1kubota post #3. see thread http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48
From what I have read on this site and other sites, those with newer tractors unless they are Gear and foot clutch, may want to use the Super UDT to possibly avoid tranny issues. For me it comes down to 22.05 more per 5 gal pail. For something I will only need to change every 350 hrs, its cheap insurance. Many times symptoms were eliminated by changing the fluid to SUDT. My 2 cents. Bill
Last edited:
This covers all the bases
You get what you pay for and the more expensive fluid does make a difference.
Well said KubotaL185DT.
You will never convince me that Kubota has "special oil" they(Kubota) contract it out to the cheapest bidder, the same as everyone else does. I am willing to put money that their oil comes from a Japanese or Chinese or Korean plant and is supplied to a minimum standard. Someone said here that Kubota does not make oil and that person is correct they do not. The same argument was made by Harley D so you bought their $15.00 a quart oil with a Harley Lable on it, Someone decided to research it and found out they were buying offshore oil for pennies a quart and it was far worse than any Wal Mart or low brand oil you could buy anywhere. Any good quality oil that is UDT compatible is more than likely better.
Vic, I tried to contact you for input before I posted (post # 28). I had sent you 2 PMs.
Thought you must be on vacation or to busy to respond ?
Last edited:
I called my kubota dealer and they asked me if I wanted the kubota brand or there in house brand. They said that when it was hard to get the kubota brand they had some made up. Not sure what brand I'll add when I get but a 5gallon is$100.
If the Valvoline Unitrac Hydraulic Oil-3098 is an exact replacement for the Kubota UDT what difference does it make if a 5 gallon pail of it cost $165 ?
I'd definately buy the Kubota product.
I'd definately buy the Kubota product.
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
The DEALER had "some made up"???
My gut reaction is "Run, don't walk".
I haven't bought any since oil prices went stupid, but a year ago the Kubota "Premium UDT" sold up here was ~CDN$120 for a 20L pail. Roughly similar to your US$100 for 5USG.
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
In North America and Austrailia SUDT2 is blended by Valvoline. Documented fact not a guess.
I will also be happy to provide you with a detailed description of Kubota's physical properties and performance requirements for SUDT. There are only a handful of products that can come even close to matching it. JD HyGard lo-vis (slightly less exoensive) and CNH/J I Case Ultraction SSL (more expensive) are two that I know of.
Dan
Yeah..but I just can’t seem to find where I last left my Oil Laboratory to PROVE it was THEIR OIL that caused the failure…. so I just use what Kubota says and be done with it.
Just because Kubota is not in the refining business…. doesn’t mean they don’t have specifications to be met by Valvoline or whoever cooks-up their recipie. It also doesn’t mean that everything with a Valvoline “compatible with UDT” pedigree meets Kubota specs. Just because the different fluids are made by the same guy doesn’t mean it’s the same stuff.
I notice that most of the guys who endorse Brand-X ”compatible w/UDT” are “New Members”.…which causes me to wonder if they are also new to tractor ownership.… but…CHolmes (who posted in 2017) is unfortunately not likely to see this post… However I would suggest that using HIS logic…the next time he’s in the hospital he tell the ER that he will be happy with cheaper Dog-blood or a ‘possum heart…. after-all….we’re all made by the same Guy.…
I see the same thing on car forums. Say Toyota has a spec. Now it's WS (World Standard). GM has Dexron VI, IIRC Ford has Mercon VI and the list goes on. Then along comes someone like say Valvoline that says their XYZ fluid meets all those standards and then some. Now, I am not saying Valvoline makes a "poor" product. But, when I see they try to make it meet Ford, spec, GM, Toyota, and whole list of other companies, I get quite concerned. A trans is an awfully expensive thing to chance. No thanks. When I do a fluid change on my Toyota(s) I go to the dealer and buy the OEM stuff. Spent too many years in auto work to chance stuff like that
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Hyperbole is not helpful and ad hominem attacks add no value to the conversation.. Everybody has and is entitled to their own opionions. I try to base mine on good scientific data.
When Kubota introduced SUDT in 1991 they published an SAE whitepaper describing the engineering goals, physical properties, and qualifying tests for their new lubricant. It is copyright protected material but any SAE member can purchase a copy for the modest sum of $35. I am going to offer up a brief synopsis of that paper and you will find a table showing the comparative physical properties of UDT and SUDT at the bottom of this post. Kubota was primarily focused on two areas of improvement:
Cold Temperature Pumpability
The new fluid had to pump quicker at low temperature than conventional UTTO's like UDT. The qualifying test was a simple bench rig using a Kubota tractor hydraulic pump, 35u suction side filter, flow meter, and reservoir. The oil and test apparatus was stabilized at -30C and then the pump was started. As the oil was pumped through the test rig it is warmed by friction and the rate of flow increases.
- Standard UDT had to flow >1 l/minute after 2 minutes of operation and >3.5 l/min after 10 minutes of operation.
- The new SUDT had to flow >2.5 l/minute at the 2 minute mark and >5.5 l/min at the 10 minute mark.
Filterability and Water Tolerance
When a lubricant is contaminated by sufficient quantities of water it forms oil/water emulsions and the water can cause additives to precipitate out of solution. These emulsions and precipitates can and do clog filters. The new qualifying test for SUDT consisted of mixing 1% by volume water with the oil, agitating the mixture, and allowing it to rest at room temperature (20C) for 168 hours. The mixture was then passed through a 10mm millipore filter and the sludge and particulates collected were weighed. A maximum of .1g of residue is allowed.
Those two characteristics are the factors KUBOTA defined as separating SUDT from UDT and third party UTTO's. ALL of these lubricants are GL4 gear oils and provide excellent wear protection. I have yet to find any reliable studies that show using conventional UDT or generic UTTO's will harm a Kubota tractor or void your warranty and AFAIK Kubota does not publish such a claim. But what is clear is that SUDT is a SUPERIOR lubricant that will get to operating parts faster in cold weather and can tolerate greater quantities of water contamination before filters need to be changed.
Now for my PERSONAL OPINION:
If you live in a warm dry climate that added performance may be of little added value. However, if you own an HST machine and simply want the best for your tractor SUDT is a readily available and affordable choice. JD Hygard (J20D) and Case Ultraction SSL (Hytran) are very similar OEM products promoted by and available from the competition. Hygard is priced just under SUDT and Ultraction is a considerably more expensive. The Amsoil product is similar but looks like a synthetic in between sort of product. It also costs $200+ for a 5 gallon pail and makes no claims of enhanced water tolerance.
Dan
ALL DATA PROVIDED BY KUBOTA TRACTOR CORPORATION
Last edited: