Which FEL circuit to divert

[Softailrider]

Hello all. New to this forum. I'm currently working on an attachment for my B3300su and could use some help. I'm installing a Precision Manufacturing double add a grapple to my bucket, and to get hydraulics to it, I'm going with their diverted valve. It seems like a pretty common way of diverting the fluid to the grapple is to plumb it to the tilt /curl circuit. I was set to do that, and I heard Tractor Mike say that some Kubotas have a regeneration phase on their FEL hydraulics, and you can't divert the tilt /curl lines, in stead have to divert the raise/lower lines. Does anyone have any knowledge on this? I appreciate any feedback.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hello all. New to this forum. I'm currently working on an attachment for my B3300su and could use some help. I'm installing a Precision Manufacturing double add a grapple to my bucket, and to get hydraulics to it, I'm going with their diverted valve. It seems like a pretty common way of diverting the fluid to the grapple is to plumb it to the tilt /curl circuit. I was set to do that, and I heard Tractor Mike say that some Kubotas have a regeneration phase on their FEL hydraulics, and you can't divert the tilt /curl lines, in stead have to divert the raise/lower lines. Does anyone have any knowledge on this? I appreciate any feedback.

Regen is a common feature on the bucket circuit of many Kubota loaders but it will work fine on a grapple. You must hook the dump side of the bucket circuit to the base end of the grapple cylinders. It will not work if you reverse the lines.

Regen will produce a reduced clamping force on the tines but that should not be an issue for typical uses. Some Kubota valves have a fourth detented non-regenerative dump position that produces full cylinder force.

Dan

 

[Softailrider]

Regen is a common feature on the bucket circuit of many Kubota loaders but it will work fine on a grapple. You must hook the dump side of the bucket circuit to the base end of the grapple cylinders. It will not work if you reverse the lines.

Regen will produce a reduced clamping force on the tines but that should not be an issue for typical uses. Some Kubota valves have a fourth detented non-regenerative dump position that produces full cylinder force.

Dan

Regen is a common feature on the bucket circuit of many Kubota loaders but it will work fine on a grapple. You must hook the dump side of the bucket circuit to the base end of the grapple cylinders. It will not work if you reverse the lines.

Regen will produce a reduced clamping force on the tines but that should not be an issue for typical uses. Some Kubota valves have a fourth detented non-regenerative dump position that produces full cylinder force.

Dan

Thanks for the reply, Dan. I have 120 acres of thick forest and plan on putting the grapple and tractor lift capacity to the test with cleaning up a lot of dead fall. So when you say "reduced clamping force on the tines" do you think that will effect my ability to pick up trees?

 

[Henro]

Thanks for the reply, Dan. I have 120 acres of thick forest and plan on putting the grapple and tractor lift capacity to the test with cleaning up a lot of dead fall. So when you say "reduced clamping force on the tines" do you think that will effect my ability to pick up trees?

If there is any question, why not just put it on the other circuit? Regen becomes a non issue then.

 

[Softailrider]

If there is any question, why not just put it on the other circuit? Regen becomes a non issue then.

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards now. I'd prefer it on the left and right joystick move, but considering the regen situation I'll be more confident with it on the raise/lower. Thanks for your input.

 

[2650fan]

Perhaps you should consider a summit hydraulic system, it works off power beyond ports and allows you all functions of loader plus grapple open and close… I just added one to my b2650
Works great

 

[Softailrider]

Perhaps you should consider a summit hydraulic system, it works off power beyond ports and allows you all functions of loader plus grapple open and close… I just added one to my b2650
Works great

I did look at Summit as well as W. R. Long before I ordered the grapple, and hindsight being what it is I should have went with Summit. Now I'm $500 invested into Precision's diverter.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards now. I'd prefer it on the left and right joystick move, but considering the regen situation I'll be more confident with it on the raise/lower. Thanks for your input.

If you have a WSM for your loader, you can see if it has the fourth position on the bucket valve Dan mentioned. Here's the diagram for the TL720 loader on my L35. A2/B2 go to the curl cylinders, you can see the regen path at the 3arrow.

Or you could use trial and error. Just swap a few hoses.

 

[Softailrider]

If you have a WSM for your loader, you can see if it has the fourth position on the bucket valve Dan mentioned. Here's the diagram for the TL720 loader on my L35. A2/B2 go to the curl cylinders, you can see the regen path at the 3arrow.
View attachment 83699

Or you could use trial and error. Just swap a few hoses.

Probably just like must guys on here, I can fix just about anything with my hands. My know-how comes from either experience or trial and error(YouTube is helpful too) I'll be perfectly honest, looking at diagrams, whether hydraulic or electric, you might as well be talking to me in Japanese. I just don't follow them.. Lol. Thanks for your input.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for the reply, Dan. I have 120 acres of thick forest and plan on putting the grapple and tractor lift capacity to the test with cleaning up a lot of dead fall. So when you say "reduced clamping force on the tines" do you think that will effect my ability to pick up trees?

Short answer is NO. Clamping force is only an issue if the tines on the grapple dont wrap around the work. If they close around the object you do not need clamping force. If you are trying to pick up a big rock that you cant get inside the tines you need clamping force. Even then the regen force should be sufficient to "squeeze" hard enough to grasp and lift the object.

Dan

 

[Softailrider]

Short answer is NO. Clamping force is only an issue if the tines on the grapple dont wrap around the work. If they close around the object you do not need clamping force. If you are trying to pick up a big rock that you cant get inside the tines you need clamping force. Even then the regen force should be sufficient to "squeeze" hard enough to grasp and lift the object.

Dan

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation. I'll be getting to work soon, and when I have it installed and plumbed I'll check back here and give an update.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation. I'll be getting to work soon, and when I have it installed and plumbed I'll check back here and give an update.

Plus, you can squeeze with the lid, then release the button to lock the lid, and squeeze on with the bucket curl.

Just don't overdo it. Depending on your tractor, loader and grapple design, it's theoretically possible to bend something or blow a hose.

 

[Kennyd4110]

The "B" series valves are generally 4-way, so you can use the dump/curl circuit. The "L" series are usually only 3-way (regen only) valves.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The "B" series valves are generally 4-way, so you can use the dump/curl circuit. The "L" series are usually only 3-way (regen only) valves.

Actually they are all 4 way (double acting) valves.
Some are 3 position and some are 4 position.
They will all work with a grapple.

Dan

 

[Kennyd4110]

Actually they are all 4 way (double acting) valves.
Some are 3 position and some are 4 position.
They will all work with a grapple.

Dan

Yes...Just different terminology Dan. I'm sure he understood what I meant, but thanks for correcting me.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards now. I'd prefer it on the left and right joystick move, but considering the regen situation I'll be more confident with it on the raise/lower. Thanks for your input.

I mentioned the reduced force for completeness but I can't see it being an issue. Let me quantify that for you. At 2000 PSI a 2" cylinder with 1" rod produces 6200 pounds of force. In regen mode that becomes 2200 pounds of force. That's a pretty substantial grip and will hold most anything the loader can lift and will crush limbs and small trees.

Dan

 

[Softailrider]

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

I mentioned the reduced force for completeness but I can't see it being an issue. Let me quantify that for you. At 2000 PSI a 2" cylinder with 1" rod produces 6200 pounds of force. In regen mode that becomes 2200 pounds of force. That's a pretty substantial grip and will hold most anything the loader can lift and will crush limbs and small trees.

Dan

With that kind of pressure, I'll be able to hold onto anything that can be picked up by my tractor. Thanks for shedding all the light on this. I'm feeling better about it now than I was this morning. After hearing your input and Potreeboy's suggestion, I'm going to go ahead and plumb it into the tilt/curl circuit. There are two 6 x 2 cylinders for the lid, so even with regen I should be fine. I also like the suggestion from Potree of locking the lids and using the curl on the bucket if it's called for. Thanks again to all of you who chimed in with suggestions.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

With that kind of pressure, I'll be able to hold onto anything that can be picked up by my tractor. Thanks for shedding all the light on this. I'm feeling better about it now than I was this morning. After hearing your input and Potreeboy's suggestion, I'm going to go ahead and plumb it into the tilt/curl circuit. There are two 6 x 2 cylinders for the lid, so even with regen I should be fine. I also like the suggestion from Potree of locking the lids and using the curl on the bucket if it's called for. Thanks again to all of you who chimed in with suggestions.

Once you lock the cylinders they are locked. Pushing isn't going to increase the grip.

If the loader has quick connects at the valves you can easily change which circuit is being diverted.

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Once you lock the cylinders they are locked. Pushing isn't going to increase the grip.

If the loader has quick connects at the valves you can easily change which circuit is being diverted.

Dan

You're right. I was thinking along the lines of backhoe bucket and thumb .