Trailer ramp problems

TGKY

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L4701DT
May 24, 2018
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US
I have an L4701 that I have to trailer often and my trailer uses stow away ramps. The issue I’m running into with this new tractor Vs my old one is that when loading and unloading as soon as either the front or rear wheels first clear the ramps, the other end isn’t yet on the ramps and they kick off.

I’m putting jack stands under the trailer but this is only offering limited help if any.

Does anyone have any tips on how to prevent this?

thanks in advance.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Apr 2, 2019
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a) drill holes in both trailer and ramps, place bolt to 'secure' the ramp to trailer
b) use straps to connect them to trailer ?

the ramps need to be secured to the trailer !
 
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D2Cat

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Redesign the ramps. As mentioned, have them connected to the back of the trailer and have "feet' welded on the bottom so when the ramps are put down the feet are on the ground. This is much safer. Keeps your truck rear end from coming up when the weight first gets on the trailer. It will help keep your truck under control and not roll off from under you.

Something similar to this. Design the feet so they are within 1" of the ground when on level surface, and build them heavier then pictured here.

1656767264127.png
 
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troverman

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I would just use a ratchet strap on each ramp to secure them while loading and unloading the tractor. The solutions offered above are better, but for the short term a strap would be fine. An L4701 is a significant tractor, so be aware of that. Posting a picture of your current trailer / ramp setup would help us offer better suggestions.
 

RBsingl

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Kubota F 2690 72" rear discharge deck, Deere 955
Jul 1, 2022
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I like the feet idea, I have used straps in the past. I had a set of light aluminum ramps for my pickup that came with chains to secure them and they worked but were awkward and it isn't a solution I would suggest for trailer ramps unless you build in proper anchor points for the chains on the trailer.

Be extremely careful relying upon jack stands to balance/support a trailer while the load is being driven onto the trailer. A little unexpected shift is all it takes to send a jackstand flying which is bad news if you are depending on it.

Loading on a trailer can quickly provide a real life demonstration of geometry as seen with the internet videos of trucks and trailers taking off mid-load after the truck rear end comes off the ground rendering the transmission parking brake useless :) Proper wheel chocks are important but as a backup, if you have a 4WD truck, put it in 4WD before starting the load-up.

A buddy from high school who spent his career as a mechanic told me before you ever depend upon jack stands holding up a car, body slam it from a couple of angles before you go under it. I did consulting work in risk management and failure analysis and it is usually much easier to determine the reason for failure after an incident as opposed to predicting it beforehand but also far less useful to the victim.
 
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troverman

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With loaded rear tires, a loader, and a basic rear implement the L4701 can weigh in excess of 6,000lbs. A significant trailer should be used, and most already have ramps built in or included for specific use with such a trailer. I would imagine a trailer with a 6,000+ lb payload would need to weigh around 3,000lbs itself. This would be near the top of the game for a half ton truck and a 3/4 ton or up truck would be the best option for safe pulling.
 
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BetterThanAShovel

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This would be near the top of the game for a half ton truck and a 3/4 ton or up truck would be the best option for safe pulling.
Went and got my B2650 w/backhoe and grapple with my 2016 Silverado 1/2 ton and a 3k - 4k trailer....and, it never felt unsafe, but ya it was definitely right at the limit of what it could drag across PA ridges. Obviously a trailer brake controller is needed or you'll die. Hills were VERY slow going, but we managed it. I realized that it was probably the largest tractor I could expect to have with only a 1/2 ton truck, or I'll have to pay for some other means of transportation if it needs to go anywhere.
 
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RBsingl

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Kubota F 2690 72" rear discharge deck, Deere 955
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Good trailer brakes with a properly located controller are your friend if the tail starts wagging the dog. Manual moderate application of the trailer brakes by themselves can help pull the trailer back in line and stabilize it and some of the current pickups automatically use this as part of their integrated stability control system, my 2018 GMC 2500HD diesel has this integration.

With enough power, the tow vehicle can also pull the trailer back inline but if the uncontrolled sway is due to improper weight/hitch balance, strong crosswinds, or other underlying conditions then the problem is going to come right back except now you have the problem at a more dangerous speed.

The worst of these issues come from improper placement of the load, too little weight on the hitch (easy to do when someone is trying to make a truck with too little carrying capacity do the work), and the general condition of too much load for the trailer and tow vehicle. When my daughter was an infant, I was driving back to IL from visiting my family on the Mississippi coast and a little south of Hattiesburg in the rolling hills of US 49 a then newer F150 with an excavator on a triple axle trailer pulled out well ahead of me. I hung back and on the first downhill the trailer started pushing the pickup creating ever worsening oscillation. I pulled over until he finished running off the road flipping the whole mess in the process. Way too much load for too little truck coupled with a driver who had no idea what he was doing. He made it less than 2 miles before wrecking and fortunately didn't take out any innocent bystanders.
 
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Vigo

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Jan 9, 2022
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Would like to see a pic of the trailer/ramps to be able to suggest the easiest way to fabricate a permanent solution.
 

troverman

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...a then newer F150 with an excavator on a triple axle trailer pulled out well ahead of me.
That is flat out nuts. People are clueless. I saw a guy trying to tow a KX080 behind a GMC Sierra 2500 ....20,000lbs of excavator and probably 7,000lbs of trailer behind a 2500 Denali that probably had 2000lbs of payload. The truck was doing the Carolina Squat and all I could hope was that he wasn't going too far or too fast.
 
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RBsingl

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Kubota F 2690 72" rear discharge deck, Deere 955
Jul 1, 2022
409
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Central IL
That is flat out nuts. People are clueless. I saw a guy trying to tow a KX080 behind a GMC Sierra 2500 ....20,000lbs of excavator and probably 7,000lbs of trailer behind a 2500 Denali that probably had 2000lbs of payload. The truck was doing the Carolina Squat and all I could hope was that he wasn't going too far or too fast.
I travel a lot and see some pretty crazy setups combined with unskilled operators. Running on the margin or overloaded doesn't leave a practical margin of error.

For a similar reason, my Corvette Z06 hibernates over the winter because its high performance summer tires don't start working really well until it is 80 degrees or higher with the tires hot from use. In 50 degree weather, they are like driving on ice. You can decide how fast you accelerate but you don't always have a choice about how hard to brake so those tires simply aren't safe once it gets cold and they will also crack if used below 30F.

The weight ratings are a little higher on the current year trucks but my 2018 2500HD GMC Denali is rated for 15,900 maximum trailer / 25,300 GCWR and that is payload/hitch weight limited. The 3500 SRW models are higher with the 3500 DRW topping out at 23,100 trailer / 31,300 GCWR. The regular cab rating is higher but unless things changed, Denali level trim is only available with a crew cab.

Under the current SAE rating system, the gas engine probably has a higher tow limit in the 3/4 ton trucks due to weight even though it is a far less capable towing engine than the Duramax going both uphill and downhill where the diesel provides exceptional braking force.

My 2018 was still built with the real Allison 6 speed that is still the type used in the GM Navistar joint venture medium duties instead of the Allison branded 10 speed used in current GM 2500/3500 series pickups. The 10 speed is probably an OK transmission but real Allisons have spin on external filters :)
 
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fried1765

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Nov 14, 2019
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Redesign the ramps. As mentioned, have them connected to the back of the trailer and have "feet' welded on the bottom so when the ramps are put down the feet are on the ground. This is much safer. Keeps your truck rear end from coming up when the weight first gets on the trailer. It will help keep your truck under control and not roll off from under you.

Something similar to this. Design the feet so they are within 1" of the ground when on level surface, and build them heavier then pictured here.

View attachment 82759
I have the ramps as pictured here, on my 14K trailer.
I did not even consider slide in ramps, for precisely the reasons described above.
This design may be considered rudimentary/crude, but .....it IS the safest design!
I carry two short pieces of 2x10 to put under the feet/legs when on soft ground.
 

troverman

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Jun 9, 2015
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I travel a lot and see some pretty crazy setups combined with unskilled operators. Running on the margin or overloaded doesn't leave a practical margin of error.

For a similar reason, my Corvette Z06 hibernates over the winter because its high performance summer tires don't start working really well until it is 80 degrees or higher with the tires hot from use. In 50 degree weather, they are like driving on ice. You can decide how fast you accelerate but you don't always have a choice about how hard to brake so those tires simply aren't safe once it gets cold and they will also crack if used below 30F.

The weight ratings are a little higher on the current year trucks but my 2018 2500HD GMC Denali is rated for 15,900 maximum trailer / 25,300 GCWR and that is payload/hitch weight limited. The 3500 SRW models are higher with the 3500 DRW topping out at 23,100 trailer / 31,300 GCWR. The regular cab rating is higher but unless things changed, Denali level trim is only available with a crew cab.

Under the current SAE rating system, the gas engine probably has a higher tow limit in the 3/4 ton trucks due to weight even though it is a far less capable towing engine than the Duramax going both uphill and downhill where the diesel provides exceptional braking force.

My 2018 was still built with the real Allison 6 speed that is still the type used in the GM Navistar joint venture medium duties instead of the Allison branded 10 speed used in current GM 2500/3500 series pickups. The 10 speed is probably an OK transmission but real Allisons have spin on external filters :)
I could talk trucks with you all day. You have a nice truck! A family member just bought a new 2022 GMC 3500 Denali with the Duramax / 10 speed. It is a very quick truck. I'm well aware even though it says "Allison" on the emblem it is really a GM-built HD 10 speed that is mostly just a scaled-up heavier duty version of the joint Ford/GM 10 speed in the light duty trucks. (The Ford Powerstroke 10 speed is also based on this architecture).

I'm mostly a Ford guy, although recently I've been buying RAM trucks. I have two from the current gen: a 2019 RAM 3500 crew cab HO Cummins, and a 2022 RAM 2500 crew cab Hemi. Both are Tradesman with nearly every package you can get on those. Essentially a work truck but with things like parking sonar, 110v outlets, power sliding rear window with defrost, etc. In the past I've had 6 Super Duty trucks, two gas, the other four diesel, one of those a King Ranch. But I use these trucks for work and I'd just as soon run lower spec but still comfortable trucks. As far as the RAM trucks - the modern Cummins HO (which debuted in 2019 with a lot of updates compared to the 2018 engine - 400HP, 1000lb-ft, hydraulic lifters for the first time, CGI block, dreaded CP4 Bosch fuel pump) - it is more responsive and more powerful than the previous Cummins. The Aisin 6 speed is allegedly bulletproof but is one of the worst transmissions I've driven. Slow to shift, poor shift logic, slurred shifts, too abrupt of shifts, etc. The Hemi truck I bought because it was quite a bit cheaper and to offset the high maintenance and fuel costs of the diesel. In some ways, it is a breath of fresh air. The 8 speed transmission is one of the best I've ever driven. Driving around town is more pleasurable than the diesel - just far more responsive, and it has a nice growl. I've pulled my 15,000lb gooseneck trailer with it (I got it with the factory gooseneck prep, just like the 2019 diesel truck) and it will do it. It is much slower than the diesel and the engine is running very high RPMs and the fuel consumption is outrageous. The factory tow rating on the gas truck is 14,900 lbs gooseneck. And lastly, I still have my beloved 2005 F-350 crew cab dually with the infamous 6.0L Powerstroke. The truck is super clean and still used nearly daily in the work fleet. I have a soft spot for the old International diesel that powers it, I like the way they sound. It has a 4.10 axle ratio and the Ford 5-speed automatic and it pulls pretty well. I've fixed most of the normal 6.0L problems myself - I like working on vehicles.
 
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D2Cat

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I have the ramps as pictured here, on my 14K trailer.
I did not even consider slide in ramps, for precisely the reasons described above.
This design may be considered rudimentary/crude, but .....it IS the safest design!
I carry two short pieces of 2x10 to put under the feet/legs when on soft ground.
My trailer has similar feet on the ramps that hinge off the back of the trailer. They are made very heavy and load my 6K lb trencher without a problem. I have a 3" channel welded across the bottom of the short down legs. This keeps the feet from digging into any dirt and if there is a bit of clearance it doesn'tmake much difference if the trailer tail drops a bit. The butt of the truck is not going up!
 

RBsingl

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Kubota F 2690 72" rear discharge deck, Deere 955
Jul 1, 2022
409
428
63
Central IL
I could talk trucks with you all day. You have a nice truck! A family member just bought a new 2022 GMC 3500 Denali with the Duramax / 10 speed. It is a very quick truck. I'm well aware even though it says "Allison" on the emblem it is really a GM-built HD 10 speed that is mostly just a scaled-up heavier duty version of the joint Ford/GM 10 speed in the light duty trucks. (The Ford Powerstroke 10 speed is also based on this architecture).

I'm mostly a Ford guy, although recently I've been buying RAM trucks. I have two from the current gen: a 2019 RAM 3500 crew cab HO Cummins, and a 2022 RAM 2500 crew cab Hemi. Both are Tradesman with nearly every package you can get on those. Essentially a work truck but with things like parking sonar, 110v outlets, power sliding rear window with defrost, etc. In the past I've had 6 Super Duty trucks, two gas, the other four diesel, one of those a King Ranch. But I use these trucks for work and I'd just as soon run lower spec but still comfortable trucks. As far as the RAM trucks - the modern Cummins HO (which debuted in 2019 with a lot of updates compared to the 2018 engine - 400HP, 1000lb-ft, hydraulic lifters for the first time, CGI block, dreaded CP4 Bosch fuel pump) - it is more responsive and more powerful than the previous Cummins. The Aisin 6 speed is allegedly bulletproof but is one of the worst transmissions I've driven. Slow to shift, poor shift logic, slurred shifts, too abrupt of shifts, etc. The Hemi truck I bought because it was quite a bit cheaper and to offset the high maintenance and fuel costs of the diesel. In some ways, it is a breath of fresh air. The 8 speed transmission is one of the best I've ever driven. Driving around town is more pleasurable than the diesel - just far more responsive, and it has a nice growl. I've pulled my 15,000lb gooseneck trailer with it (I got it with the factory gooseneck prep, just like the 2019 diesel truck) and it will do it. It is much slower than the diesel and the engine is running very high RPMs and the fuel consumption is outrageous. The factory tow rating on the gas truck is 14,900 lbs gooseneck. And lastly, I still have my beloved 2005 F-350 crew cab dually with the infamous 6.0L Powerstroke. The truck is super clean and still used nearly daily in the work fleet. I have a soft spot for the old International diesel that powers it, I like the way they sound. It has a 4.10 axle ratio and the Ford 5-speed automatic and it pulls pretty well. I've fixed most of the normal 6.0L problems myself - I like working on vehicles.
My older brother had a late model Ram/Cummins which he used to tow his 5th wheel and he loved that truck. It was a great tow vehicle with a nice interior.

The new 10 speed is probably a fine transmission but I really like the classic Allison feel. I bought a 2021 Camaro with the 10 speed as my daily driver after I gave my 18 year old daughter my 2014 Cadillac ATS and I was going to buy the ATS replacement but GM was using the 2.7 4 cyl turbo gas that was designed for the light trucks and it requires premium fuel to produce more noise, less power, and less fuel economy than the 3.6 V6 in the ATS and the previous CTS that I owned. I much prefer RWD cars and I ordered a loaded 2021 Camaro with the 3.6 V6 just as the pandemic was starting. 335 HP on 87 octane with 32 MPG highway @ 80 MPH was much better than the CT4 with 2.7L four that replaced the ATS.

The Camaro has the lower torque variant of the Ford/GM cooperative 10 speed and it seems to be fine although it seems a bit "busy" at times with 10 gears. The Aisin is a very reliable transmission but it sounds like they missed the programming setup in that application. I have the 8L90 GM 8 speed in my 2016 Corvette Z06 and it works beautifully in that application even though there is a class action lawsuit against GM over the performance in other applications.

The Z06 comes with a 650 HP / 650 TQ engine and in touring mode the transmission provides silky smooth shifts and in track mode provides fast sharp shifts at redline while instantly downshifting when needed. I also plugged in a Range module into my Z06 which defeats GM's AFM system that drops cylinders under light load. AFM equipped vehicles modulate the torque converter clutch constantly when AFM is active to help absorb the additional engine vibration when it is running on less than its native number of cylinders which isn't great for the lockup clutch in the converter. I suspect Dodge does the same thing on gas powered vehicles with this technology, they cooperated with GM in developing the system and both use it on multiple platforms. I despise it, it really does little for fuel economy since it just reduces the pumping losses by reducing the amount of air pulled through a partially closed throttle plate under light load. It adds weight and complexity and at least in most GM applications, also restricts the range of control of the variable valve timing system due to the special lifters needed for AFM.

The Allison 6 speed doesn't shift as fast as the light duty transmissions but in GM's tow/haul mode (which is native mode for the Allison in other applications) it performs as close to a manual as I have found in an auto. In tow haul, the converter clutch locks with the shift into second and stays locked through other up and down shifts until speed drops enough to force it into first gear. When you run into one of those interstate backups where traffic is slowed to a near crawl because of an accident, tow haul with range locked in second and exhaust brake on allows you to drive it with one pedal like an EV.

The Hemi engines are fun to drive but they do like their fuel :) The Ford 6.0, VT-365 in Navistar speak, seemed a lot less problematic with the Navistar programming and it led to an ugly corporate spat and divorce :( The issues in Ford trim seemed far from insurmountable and it sounds like you have addressed them, congratulations! It is too bad Ford didn't, but all of the major automakers have had the MBA mindset since the 1970s with short term profits taking precedence over long-term including customer satisfaction. GM has certainly had their issues also. My first Duramax was one of the first 2001 (I took delivery in 2000) and I never had a problem with it but a lot of people went through a lot of injectors in the first generation Duramax. I sold it to a colleague whose son finally sold it with over 500K and he did go through two sets of injectors. The followup LLY generation didn't have sufficient cooling for those who towed heavy. I bought a 2006 LBZ when I sold my 2001 and it was a really nice generation coming just before more extensive emissions controls. Other than a mouse who decided to use the underhood fuse/relay center as a home/urinal, it was flawless for the 12 years I owned it. Hopefully my 2018 serves me as well and it has slightly better fuel economy than the 2006 even with the stupid DPF system. I think the better NOx reduction system using DEF allows them to offset some of the fuel efficiency lost to DPF restriction and regeneration since it can run much higher peak combustion pressures while still meeting NOx standards via the DEF/SCR system.

Finally, I also have a soft spot for IH products. I took my driver's exam long ago in my parent's 1973 International Travelall powered by a IH V392 and they later traded it for a 1979 Scout II. IH, like American Motors, was well ahead of their time with many innovations and the 1973 Travelall had a rudimentary form of anti-lock braking where the rear brakes were rapidly cycled under maximum braking to avoid lockup. IH was largely destroyed by a single CEO in the late 1970s who came to IH with no industry experience in agriculture, construction, or transportation; it was the era of believing a good manager could manage anything. Coming out of a high tech, no organized labor background he quickly managed to get IH into a major strike with the UAW which was a huge gift to Deere and from which IH never really recovered.

Rodger
 
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troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
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My older brother had a late model Ram/Cummins which he used to tow his 5th wheel and he loved that truck. It was a great tow vehicle with a nice interior.

The new 10 speed is probably a fine transmission but I really like the classic Allison feel. I bought a 2021 Camaro with the 10 speed as my daily driver after I gave my 18 year old daughter my 2014 Cadillac ATS and I was going to buy the ATS replacement but GM was using the 2.7 4 cyl turbo gas that was designed for the light trucks and it requires premium fuel to produce more noise, less power, and less fuel economy than the 3.6 V6 in the ATS and the previous CTS that I owned. I much prefer RWD cars and I ordered a loaded 2021 Camaro with the 3.6 V6 just as the pandemic was starting. 335 HP on 87 octane with 32 MPG highway @ 80 MPH was much better than the CT4 with 2.7L four that replaced the ATS.

The Camaro has the lower torque variant of the Ford/GM cooperative 10 speed and it seems to be fine although it seems a bit "busy" at times with 10 gears. The Aisin is a very reliable transmission but it sounds like they missed the programming setup in that application. I have the 8L90 GM 8 speed in my 2016 Corvette Z06 and it works beautifully in that application even though there is a class action lawsuit against GM over the performance in other applications.

The Z06 comes with a 650 HP / 650 TQ engine and in touring mode the transmission provides silky smooth shifts and in track mode provides fast sharp shifts at redline while instantly downshifting when needed. I also plugged in a Range module into my Z06 which defeats GM's AFM system that drops cylinders under light load. AFM equipped vehicles modulate the torque converter clutch constantly when AFM is active to help absorb the additional engine vibration when it is running on less than its native number of cylinders which isn't great for the lockup clutch in the converter. I suspect Dodge does the same thing on gas powered vehicles with this technology, they cooperated with GM in developing the system and both use it on multiple platforms. I despise it, it really does little for fuel economy since it just reduces the pumping losses by reducing the amount of air pulled through a partially closed throttle plate under light load. It adds weight and complexity and at least in most GM applications, also restricts the range of control of the variable valve timing system due to the special lifters needed for AFM.

The Allison 6 speed doesn't shift as fast as the light duty transmissions but in GM's tow/haul mode (which is native mode for the Allison in other applications) it performs as close to a manual as I have found in an auto. In tow haul, the converter clutch locks with the shift into second and stays locked through other up and down shifts until speed drops enough to force it into first gear. When you run into one of those interstate backups where traffic is slowed to a near crawl because of an accident, tow haul with range locked in second and exhaust brake on allows you to drive it with one pedal like an EV.

The Hemi engines are fun to drive but they do like their fuel :) The Ford 6.0, VT-365 in Navistar speak, seemed a lot less problematic with the Navistar programming and it led to an ugly corporate spat and divorce :( The issues in Ford trim seemed far from insurmountable and it sounds like you have addressed them, congratulations! It is too bad Ford didn't, but all of the major automakers have had the MBA mindset since the 1970s with short term profits taking precedence over long-term including customer satisfaction. GM has certainly had their issues also. My first Duramax was one of the first 2001 (I took delivery in 2000) and I never had a problem with it but a lot of people went through a lot of injectors in the first generation Duramax. I sold it to a colleague whose son finally sold it with over 500K and he did go through two sets of injectors. The followup LLY generation didn't have sufficient cooling for those who towed heavy. I bought a 2006 LBZ when I sold my 2001 and it was a really nice generation coming just before more extensive emissions controls. Other than a mouse who decided to use the underhood fuse/relay center as a home/urinal, it was flawless for the 12 years I owned it. Hopefully my 2018 serves me as well and it has slightly better fuel economy than the 2006 even with the stupid DPF system. I think the better NOx reduction system using DEF allows them to offset some of the fuel efficiency lost to DPF restriction and regeneration since it can run much higher peak combustion pressures while still meeting NOx standards via the DEF/SCR system.

Finally, I also have a soft spot for IH products. I took my driver's exam long ago in my parent's 1973 International Travelall powered by a IH V392 and they later traded it for a 1979 Scout II. IH, like American Motors, was well ahead of their time with many innovations and the 1973 Travelall had a rudimentary form of anti-lock braking where the rear brakes were rapidly cycled under maximum braking to avoid lockup. IH was largely destroyed by a single CEO in the late 1970s who came to IH with no industry experience in agriculture, construction, or transportation; it was the era of believing a good manager could manage anything. Coming out of a high tech, no organized labor background he quickly managed to get IH into a major strike with the UAW which was a huge gift to Deere and from which IH never really recovered.

Rodger
I also have a 2020 Mustang GT 6-speed manual as my side toy. I love the Corvette. The C6 is my favorite generation. Your 2016 is a better car but I felt the true classic styling was changed just enough to make me prefer the older generation. That said, the C7 is a much nicer looking Corvette than the C8, in my opinion. I just can't make myself like the styling of that vehicle, regardless of how awesome the performance is (which it is).

Same family member who just bought the '22 3500 Denali also has a 2005 2500 Duramax he bought brand new. It hasn't had many engine problems, but it did have injector failure. That has the 5-speed Allison. I own a GMC 3500 dump truck with the gas 6.0L Vortec engine myself, it has 130k on so not a ton of miles but it has been bulletproof.

What's happened with IH is a travesty, in my opinion. They are a storied American company now owned largely by Volkswagen, to the point an all electric VW "Scout" will be hitting the market soon. VW does make heavy trucks but they are all the snubby Euro-style rigs, nothing like what IH makes. I still really like the styling of the Durastar and Workstar trucks (MV / HV or whatever they are called now) but the IH Maxxforce engines really haven't been wonderful.
 

RBsingl

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Kubota F 2690 72" rear discharge deck, Deere 955
Jul 1, 2022
409
428
63
Central IL
I also have a 2020 Mustang GT 6-speed manual as my side toy. I love the Corvette. The C6 is my favorite generation. Your 2016 is a better car but I felt the true classic styling was changed just enough to make me prefer the older generation. That said, the C7 is a much nicer looking Corvette than the C8, in my opinion. I just can't make myself like the styling of that vehicle, regardless of how awesome the performance is (which it is).

Same family member who just bought the '22 3500 Denali also has a 2005 2500 Duramax he bought brand new. It hasn't had many engine problems, but it did have injector failure. That has the 5-speed Allison. I own a GMC 3500 dump truck with the gas 6.0L Vortec engine myself, it has 130k on so not a ton of miles but it has been bulletproof.

What's happened with IH is a travesty, in my opinion. They are a storied American company now owned largely by Volkswagen, to the point an all electric VW "Scout" will be hitting the market soon. VW does make heavy trucks but they are all the snubby Euro-style rigs, nothing like what IH makes. I still really like the styling of the Durastar and Workstar trucks (MV / HV or whatever they are called now) but the IH Maxxforce engines really haven't been wonderful.
Your 2020 Mustang is a classic looking vehicle with a style that will age well! I agree and I also don't care for the C8 Corvette generation, maybe it will grow on me but I doubt it. I looked at the C6 generation but it was gone by the time I got around to ordering so I waited for the second production year of the C7.

The GM 6.0L gas is pretty much bulletproof. It isn't high performance but it is the perfect engine for truck use and goes about its work without drama. I have never owned one but have driven vehicles equipped with them many times.

I live not far from what originally was the Mitsubishi and Chrysler joint venture auto plant, later Mitsubishi only, and now Rivian. Between the end of Mitsubishi operation and the start of Rivian, their production/storage parking area was home to thousands of VWs bought back under the diesel emissions cheating scandal and waiting for export. Every company makes mistakes but overt cheating is a little beyond a mistake.

The Navistar CV line of light medium duties uses the Durmax 6.6 with PTO equipped Allison, this is a Navistar/GM joint venture and GM sells them as the Silverado chassis cab 4500/5500/6500 series. They seem pretty solid and are a good choice in their GVWR range.

Navi and Cat have both had their diesel engine issues, the ACERT push was pretty much a disaster both from the engineering and marketing standpoints. Light through heavy diesel emissions systems has been something of a deja vu experience mirroring some of the issues seen with light duty gas engines during the early 70s in the beginning of emissions control.

Rodger
 

troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
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I'm afraid the Vortec 6.0L will be a better engine than the new 6.6L gas that replaces it. The old 6.0L was great because it was so simple - port injection, no cylinder deactivation, no variable valve timing. Just a good old pushrod 2-valve V8. In an application like a one-ton dump, the gas is the better choice in my opinion because it offers more payload and plenty of power to haul whatever goes in the dump bed. If you intend to tow, the 6.0L might not be the best choice.

Regarding VW, I don't dislike the company. I just dislike that they own International. I'm not really upset by them cheating - the EPA was basically being stupid. The TDI cars were terrific...50mpg on the highway was not difficult to achieve. They were well made, fun to drive - something never said of a Prius. The TDI's had a DPF but no SCR system...too expensive on a small car like a Golf or Jetta. So they cheated a bit. The real question is what hurt the environment more: swapping a 50mpg car for a 30mpg car which burns more fuel, or releasing a little more NOx than allowed? (Keep in mind its still perfectly legal to be operating 1970's R-model Mack trucks today which release...just about everything).

Finally, regarding the Silverado 4500-6500 and the IH clones. Good and bad in my opinion. What I really like is the forward-tilt hood for easy access to the engine. Far better than a Ford 550 or RAM 5500. The styling is good. I think it crosses over a bit into heavy duty truck land with superior brakes than the Ford or RAM, and there is an optional air suspension at least on the rear. The standard batteries are well better than anything coming on the Ford or RAM, and there are options for major battery power if you need it.
The straight frame is obviously a plus for upfitters, but it also creates the single biggest problem in my opinion for this truck: height. Whether its a rollback or a dump truck, this thing is quite a bit taller than the Ford and RAM competition, despite rolling on the same 19.5 tires. I think GM is being disingenuous with the "6500" moniker because while it does go up to 23,500 GVWR (compared to 19,500 for a Ford or RAM 550/5500), it is a far cry from a true medium duty like a Ford "650" which implies a similar class. The 650 is a much larger truck with more "big truck" features like air brakes and much heavier axles and suspensions and 22.5" wheels. In the end, its a good truck but I would probably still just buy a 550 Ford (or F-600 if I needed a little more GVWR). The supposed upfitting advantage due to the perfectly straight frame is minimal simply because there are so many Ford 550's sold that nobody is having trouble upfitting them; they are a little cheaper, and lower. Note that the Silverado 4500-5500 uses leaf springs on the front end while Ford / RAM use coils, despite Ford using the same front axle as the Silverado MD (Dana 60). And for comparison, the last-gen Ford F-450 pickup was using the Dana S110 rear axle as well. The S-130 was previously used in the Ford F-550 as well.
 
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