Winter Storm

[D2Cat]

I got a couple of quotes for Generac back in the first part of Jan, but they couldn't promise delivery and could guess 6 months. One other guy wouldn't even come to look for a bid.

What seems odd to me all the big box stores handle Generax and have the exact same price. However, Menards offers an 11% discount on every purchase of anything in the store. You don't get the money, but a store credit. It's still a savings though. I have a friend who's been working on commercial building electrical for 26 years and I will probably have him do the install of what ever I get because even the two quotes I got had exclusion wanting me to provide the base for the unit and be responsible for the gas hookup.

I had the estimator from the local power co. come out to see what his opinion was. This house was all elec when built and has two meters. One is for heating and cooling circuits only. Since last summer we installed new AC we eliminated the elec. furnace and went propane. We primarily heated with wood, but decided it's time to consider easier living, but can still use wood if absolutely necessary. He said we could put the AC circuits in the other panel, they'd pull the meter and block it off and leave the hub on the side of the house and then only need one transfer switch.

 

[RBsingl]

I looked at propane powered generators but ultimately decided diesel is better suited to my needs given the climate and location.

I am in a very rural area and would not be a high priority for power restoration during a major winter storm and propane delivery would be an issue if roads are impassable. The propane supplier also stated they would either need to add a second 500 gallon tank just for the generator or switch my current 500 gallon tank to 1,000 gallons to make sure that the combined load of two central heating systems plus a larger generator didn't run into insufficient vaporization rate in very cold weather. The tank change would have been done at no charge but I still would have the supply issue.

With diesel I am not worried about running out between the 60 gallon tank on the unit, the potential to siphon if needed from the 36 gallon tank in my pickup, the ability to drive for more if needed, and as an emergency backup my farmer neighbor is glad to let me use fuel from his 500 gallon tank if I run short. I use the storage tank on the generator to feed my tractor and replenish as necessary to avoid fuel just sitting there. The longest outage since I put in the generator was 16 hours during an ice storm; I had the tank 81% full and the gauge showed 72% when the power came back on and unlike when I was using the smaller gas generator we behaved like it was commercial power and didn't try to conserve.

It was also nice to have the almost inaudible hum of the 1,800 RPM generator in the barn compared to the 10 KW 3,600 RPM gas portable I had been using. The output of the new generator is also extremely clean, I use panel mounted whole house surge suppressors at the main panel at the meter and at each panel in the house and outbuildings and they have RFI suppression built into them. When running on the portable generator, you could hear them singing along with the generator as their L/C network bypassed the garbage on the waveform to ground, my current generator shows a clean sinewave on my scope just like you would expect from the commercial line.

Where I grew up on the Mississippi gulf coast, a power outage after a hurricane was a nuisance but here in IL in winter it is more than just a nuisance.

And as someone stated earlier in the thread, make sure to exercise the generator under load. One of my distant relatives farms in the area and he has a large propane fueled Generac that is set to do a monthly engine exercise but wasn't set to transfer load during the exercise cycle and apparently the auto transfer switch installed by Generac doesn't even flag the issue if generator power isn't produced during exercise. When he had an outage last winter, his generator came on but didn't produce any electrical output and the issue was the regulator in the generator which he was pretty sure died in a lightning storm early in summer that took out some consumer electronics in his house.

Rodger

 

[DaveFromMi]

We installed a 10 KW propane generator a few months ago. In addition, we have two portable gas generators; a Generac 4000W and a Honda 3000W inverter.
Would consider adding a used portable diesel generator if the price is right.

 

[Dieseldonato]

I looked at propane powered generators but ultimately decided diesel is better suited to my needs given the climate and location.

I am in a very rural area and would not be a high priority for power restoration during a major winter storm and propane delivery would be an issue if roads are impassable. The propane supplier also stated they would either need to add a second 500 gallon tank just for the generator or switch my current 500 gallon tank to 1,000 gallons to make sure that the combined load of two central heating systems plus a larger generator didn't run into insufficient vaporization rate in very cold weather. The tank change would have been done at no charge but I still would have the supply issue.

With diesel I am not worried about running out between the 60 gallon tank on the unit, the potential to siphon if needed from the 36 gallon tank in my pickup, the ability to drive for more if needed, and as an emergency backup my farmer neighbor is glad to let me use fuel from his 500 gallon tank if I run short. I use the storage tank on the generator to feed my tractor and replenish as necessary to avoid fuel just sitting there. The longest outage since I put in the generator was 16 hours during an ice storm; I had the tank 81% full and the gauge showed 72% when the power came back on and unlike when I was using the smaller gas generator we behaved like it was commercial power and didn't try to conserve.

It was also nice to have the almost inaudible hum of the 1,800 RPM generator in the barn compared to the 10 KW 3,600 RPM gas portable I had been using. The output of the new generator is also extremely clean, I use panel mounted whole house surge suppressors at the main panel at the meter and at each panel in the house and outbuildings and they have RFI suppression built into them. When running on the portable generator, you could hear them singing along with the generator as their L/C network bypassed the garbage on the waveform to ground, my current generator shows a clean sinewave on my scope just like you would expect from the commercial line.

Where I grew up on the Mississippi gulf coast, a power outage after a hurricane was a nuisance but here in IL in winter it is more than just a nuisance.

And as someone stated earlier in the thread, make sure to exercise the generator under load. One of my distant relatives farms in the area and he has a large propane fueled Generac that is set to do a monthly engine exercise but wasn't set to transfer load during the exercise cycle and apparently the auto transfer switch installed by Generac doesn't even flag the issue if generator power isn't produced during exercise. When he had an outage last winter, his generator came on but didn't produce any electrical output and the issue was the regulator in the generator which he was pretty sure died in a lightning storm early in summer that took out some consumer electronics in his house.

Rodger

We used to preach to customers about getting their standby generator load banked once a year or at least once every other year. Few did. It let you know the generator could put out 100% load if needed and kept the exhaust system from gumming up on light loads. (Everyone over sizes generators) wet stacking can be pretty bad in a diesel gen set if it doesn't get at least 60% load on it. We were typically happy to see 80-85% load cycles. Happy engine and a bit extra if you ever added anything else down the road.
As a side note, I keep looking for diesel generators in the 12-17kw range and it seems lately the price has gone crazy, even for used units. Kinda put me off upgrading from my mosa....

 

[Daren Todd]

We used to preach to customers about getting their standby generator load banked once a year or at least once every other year. Few did. It let you know the generator could put out 100% load if needed and kept the exhaust system from gumming up on light loads. (Everyone over sizes generators) wet stacking can be pretty bad in a diesel gen set if it doesn't get at least 60% load on it. We were typically happy to see 80-85% load cycles. Happy engine and a bit extra if you ever added anything else down the road.
As a side note, I keep looking for diesel generators in the 12-17kw range and it seems lately the price has gone crazy, even for used units. Kinda put me off upgrading from my mosa....

With a diesel, 80% load is optimal.

Here's a story as a good example. Had a customer pump acidic water through a 12" diesel powered water pump.

I rebuilt the pump end and ordered parts using the units model number with the manufacturer.

Well someone goofed and sent me the impeller for a Super 12 (300hp 12,000gpm) instead of the standard 12 (180hp 9,500gpm).

I had a stub to compare to the new one after the acidic water had its way with it for a couple months.

So when the new impeller showed up and I got it out of the crate, I said "yup, this sum beach ought to move some water".

Got everything back together, load tested it at the shop, but it's more of a pressure check to test for leaks and check the mechanical seal. Can't get it under a full load on something that big (no enough water storage).

Rebuilt it's twin sister, same exact issue and parts, then sent them to a paper mill for an emergency repair where we had to bypass a canal.

Got both of them hooked up, ran them full throttle (1,800 rpm similar to a gen set). It picked up a prime, let out a roar....... turbo started to really sing, the RPMs dropped to 1,400 and wouldn't go any higher, and started raining carbon from the exhaust

Backed one down to 1,000 rpm just to make sure throttle was working and then tried to ramp it back up. well it took it about 10 minutes to work it's way back to 1400 rpms and wouldn't go any higher.

Customer told me to not touch the other one, leave it at 1400, and they were gonna check flow at the other end of there discharge pipes (1,000 ft away).

They said they are pumping like a mother f---ker and leave it be.

I called the vendor back the next day, gave them the part number and asked if it was for a super 12. They said "yup, that's what you were rebuilding???.... right????" I said "nope, it's got the 180hp engine".

He said "oh....... bet it pumps like a mother, but doesn't idle up for shit!!!!!"

I said "yup..... that pretty much sums it up...... ship me two of the correct impellers and email me the return shipping labels for the others.... the units will be out for about a week, then I'll be able to tear em down"

Job ended up taking the customer 3 days where those pumps ran the whole time like that. It sure cleaned the carbon out of em

 

[Dieseldonato]

With a diesel, 80% load is optimal.

Here's a story as a good example. Had a customer pump acidic water through a 12" diesel powered water pump.

I rebuilt the pump end and ordered parts using the units model number with the manufacturer.

Well someone goofed and sent me the impeller for a Super 12 (300hp 12,000gpm) instead of the standard 12 (180hp 9,500gpm).

I had a stub to compare to the new one after the acidic water had its way with it for a couple months.

So when the new impeller showed up and I got it out of the crate, I said "yup, this sum beach ought to move some water".

Got everything back together, load tested it at the shop, but it's more of a pressure check to test for leaks and check the mechanical seal. Can't get it under a full load on something that big (no enough water storage).

Rebuilt it's twin sister, same exact issue and parts, then sent them to a paper mill for an emergency repair where we had to bypass a canal.

Got both of them hooked up, ran them full throttle (1,800 rpm similar to a gen set). It picked up a prime, let out a roar....... turbo started to really sing, the RPMs dropped to 1,400 and wouldn't go any higher, and started raining carbon from the exhaust

Backed one down to 1,000 rpm just to make sure throttle was working and then tried to ramp it back up. well it took it about 10 minutes to work it's way back to 1400 rpms and wouldn't go any higher.

Customer told me to not touch the other one, leave it at 1400, and they were gonna check flow at the other end of there discharge pipes (1,000 ft away).

They said they are pumping like a mother f---ker and leave it be.

I called the vendor back the next day, gave them the part number and asked if it was for a super 12. They said "yup, that's what you were rebuilding???.... right????" I said "nope, it's got the 180hp engine".

He said "oh....... bet it pumps like a mother, but doesn't idle up for shit!!!!!"

I said "yup..... that pretty much sums it up...... ship me two of the correct impellers and email me the return shipping labels for the others.... the units will be out for about a week, then I'll be able to tear em down"

Job ended up taking the customer 3 days where those pumps ran the whole time like that. It sure cleaned the carbon out of em

We worked on a lot of containerized gensets for sunbelt rentals. The best one that comes to mind was 2, 1mw units that followed some sort of tour around the country. 1 was used as a main and the other was used as a backup for power. Both were grossly oversized for the application. Neither ran worth a hoot when they came in for service. We had a 2, 400kw load banks at the shop. Couldn't really find anything wrong with either unit so hooked them up to the load banks. Got the first 400kw load on and you could see the carbon flying out of the exhaust, kept it up till we had all 800kw on the first one. Took nearly all day and I'd swear at one point we had the exhaust on fire. Smoked like a pig for a good long time, just kept adding the load bit by bit till we had all we could give it. The exhaust did finally clear out and we block tested it a few times, recovery was right where it needed to be. Did a general PM on them both and off they went for rent again. Won't lie I do miss working on them....

 

[Daren Todd]

We worked on a lot of containerized gensets for sunbelt rentals. The best one that comes to mind was 2, 1mw units that followed some sort of tour around the country. 1 was used as a main and the other was used as a backup for power. Both were grossly oversized for the application. Neither ran worth a hoot when they came in for service. We had a 2, 400kw load banks at the shop. Couldn't really find anything wrong with either unit so hooked them up to the load banks. Got the first 400kw load on and you could see the carbon flying out of the exhaust, kept it up till we had all 800kw on the first one. Took nearly all day and I'd swear at one point we had the exhaust on fire. Smoked like a pig for a good long time, just kept adding the load bit by bit till we had all we could give it. The exhaust did finally clear out and we block tested it a few times, recovery was right where it needed to be. Did a general PM on them both and off they went for rent again. Won't lie I do miss working on them....

Back when we rented generators out of our location we had an 8kw generator bussed in for a customer to use at the chuck wagon races going on of the fair grounds.

Got up there and this gen set was in the middle of the RV park. 5pm when I got there, so grills were going and the beer was flying.

Unit started, then immediately bogged down and quit. Wouldn't start after that Replaced fuel filters. Still no start.

Loosened up the exhaust clamps on a whim wondering if the mud dobbers had a field day with the spark arrester. Unit started so I deduced that the spark arrester must be clogged. Now by this point a got a pretty decent crowd sitting around me talking smack, drinking. A few smart assed comments "you gonna get this pos running tonight????" Plus some cute single women. (I was single at the time). So..... I'm trying to look like a hero and do this as quick as possible. Did I mention quite a few BBQ's were going at this point???

I let this generator get up to full running speed, then start slowly tightening up the exhaust clamps.

Well finally enough pressure built up that it blew all the crud out of that spark arrestor Black crud, mud dobbers nests, water, and what ever else was in there shot about 40ft in the air

I finished tightening the exhaust clamps, then pulled my head back out of the cabinet. Looked around and realized everyone was gone except for the customer who was laughing his butt off

There were a few people that had enough sense to close there grills, but some had to start over

I quickly packed up and got out of dodge

 

[Biker1mike]

Hot humid and lights out due to lighting strike. Westinghouse 9.5 kW started with push button. Breakers inside switched to gen and AC and all appliances are on.
Yes open frame generator and a tad noisy. Have no neighbors and I can barely hear it from the far side of the house.