L245DT hydraulic/ gear oil in bellhousing. Clutch slipping.

[BiPolarBear]

Hi from Australia,


I have an issue with my old L245DT kubota.

My issues began with very weak hydraulics and basically straight after this a plastic plug blew out of the bellhousing and sprayed a jet of gear oil all over my steep driveway. I lost 5-8 litres in a short period of time. When I shut the engine down the high pressure disappeared. The plug that came out is labeled number 8 on the diagram.

I thought it was unusual to have oil in the bellhousing and thought that maybe it was a wet clutch model. I plugged the hole and drained the transmission/cleaned the filter screen (it was filthy) and topped up the oil with UTTO. Which was quiet a lot thinner than the oil that came out. ( not sure if this caused further issues with clutch slipping)

I decided to try and do some slashing and instantly noticed that the clutch was slipping in high range especially on hills. Low range was okay.

Hydraulics still werent the best either and my front end loader was hardly lifting.

I am confident that it’s not engine oil causing the slipping because the level is consistent and the oil was cold and cleaner than engine oil

Not sure if I have overfilled the transmission at some point which has traveled into the bellhousing on my steep property or if I have a serious leak in a transmission seal. I have searched the forums and can’t really find to much info.

I opened up the clutch inspection port which was filled with at least 5 litres of oil, up to the inspection port holes. I drained and degreased what I could.

I decided to change the transmission oil with a thicker oil. During 10minutes of running the tractor the filter screen was blocked up again pretty badly. This time it wasn’t metal and I was thinking it may have been clutch material or a seal. The oil was very dark and contaminated already as well. Not sure what is going on!



When refilling, by the time I hit the fill level I could see another 5 litres in the bellhousing and it was leaking out of the inspection point again.



I’m really hoping that I’m simply overfilling the gearbox and it’s somehow finding it’s way into the bellhousing. On the left hand side there are two bolts that I had loose during filling and stopped somewhere between the two. I found a bellhousing drain plug which I’m thinking I might leave out for a bit to see if it’s a continual leak or if it’s from overfilling.
I really haven’t got the time to split the tractor for a while as I am about to have another cub and won’t have the cash for a clutch replacement.
Has anyone got any ideas?

Could it be a blocked vent or hydraulic relief valve?

If it is a transmission seal has anyone done this job or are they instructions in the manual.

See pics of inspection port, dirty oil and a diagram of the plug that came out.

Thanks in advance for all your help. This is an awesome resource.

 

[Russell King]

No oil should be in that area.

It is probably a bad seal, but you should make sure the transmission vent is open and not clogged


If you want you can leave the drain plug open on the bottom of the clutch housing and see how fast it is leaking and verify what fluid level is going down.

The engine won’t hold that much oil so should be low quickly.

The transmission holds over five gallons of fluid so you may need to mark a stick through the fill hole to see if it is lower after a while.

The older fluid may have been 80 weight gear oil but you can use a more modern universal transmission and hydraulic fluid like Kubota UDT

May be dark quickly because you’re not draining the rear axle completely or there is just a lot of residual gunk in the transmission case or the clutch housing is cross contaminating the transmission

 

[Dave_eng]

I am thinking liberal use of brake clean might save the clutch disk.
Block the clutch pedal down so you can spray the face of then clutch on the engine side of the disk.
The whole assembly needs to be oil free.
Dave

 

[rbargeron]

Well this is a head scratcher. From your observations, its not engine oil, so we're looking for a source of transmission oil, which on the L245 is the hydraulic oil.

The L245 transmission has a front seal on the mainshaft which can fail and allow gear oil to seep into the clutch housing - but it is usually a small amount and isn't pressurized. The only source of pressurized gear oil is the main hydraulic system.

A few of the L245's in the US had integral power steering (maybe more in Australia). It is possible for a leak in the steering box, to drain into the clutch housing, eventually filling it like your picture shows. Its oil comes from a priority valve under the seat - look for two small hydraulic pipes running forward to the steering box.

A way to isolate this possible source is to disconnect the two pipes at the steering box and let them flow into a clean bucket. Another way to go would be to screw down the priority valve so it stops flow to the steering.

A couple cans of brake cleaner sprayed into the clutch housing with the pedal down should eventually restore the clutch to workable friction. Addressing a steering box leak will be a separate adventure. Related discussions here and another here.

Take care, Dick B

 

[Dieseldonato]

My bet would be the front seal as well. Idk where pressurized fluid would be coming from as all the lines are external for the hydro system on an l245dt. (That I'm aware of) even the optional power steering had steel lines that ran on the exterior of the tractor. There is a full plug on top, and a level plug thats on the side of the transmission, near the clutch pedal.

 

[BiPolarBear]

Awesome guys thanks for the replies. I had some spare time today due to catching the virus again.
I opened the drain for the the bellhousing and another 5 litres came out and it just kept leaking slowly. I put go the plug back in and within 10 minutes another litre had come through. Checked the fill plug and the level is obviously below the hole because it’s making its way into the bellhousing.
I started the tractor and cycled the hydraulics with the drain open to see it was pressurised or not.
When I went up with the loader the flow stopped and when I went down it sped up but it’s defiantly not pressurised at them moment though. Im not entirely sure how to explain the jet of oil other than I was on a steep hill and maybe it was just gravity/ head pressure pushing it out with such force coupled with the was at least 5 litres extra in the system from filling up the bellhousing. The vent was also slightly blocked under the seat so that wouldn’t have helped.
The good thing is that I successfully drove it up my hill without it slipping which makes me feel a little more confident about savaging the clutch. But if the seal is gone I will have to split it anyway I guess and might as well do it while I’m there.

How do you tell if it’s a single stage or dual clutch? I am still a novice but I can feel the PTO engage before I move usually so I’m thinking dual clutch?

At the end of the day I’m certain it’s gear oil and it’s continually leaking. I don’t have a power steering box, but I wish I did as I have broken two Chinese copies and the original kubota steering box in the last 2 years. I think I must be working that FEL too hard. Haha

So I’ll have to split it to investigate the leak further I’m guessing. Maybe source the main seal and a clutch in the meantime?

Thanks a lot.

 

[BiPolarBear]

Also I cannot seem to find a seal locally, at least online anyway. I’m not sure if messicks ship internationally but they are cheap in the states. I can only find a single stage clutch locally also :/
I’ll try my kubota dealer next week otherwise I’ll have to pay import tax and shipping from the states.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Awesome guys thanks for the replies. I had some spare time today due to catching the virus again.
I opened the drain for the the bellhousing and another 5 litres came out and it just kept leaking slowly. I put go the plug back in and within 10 minutes another litre had come through. Checked the fill plug and the level is obviously below the hole because it’s making its way into the bellhousing.
I started the tractor and cycled the hydraulics with the drain open to see it was pressurised or not.
When I went up with the loader the flow stopped and when I went down it sped up but it’s defiantly not pressurised at them moment though. Im not entirely sure how to explain the jet of oil other than I was on a steep hill and maybe it was just gravity/ head pressure pushing it out with such force coupled with the was at least 5 litres extra in the system from filling up the bellhousing. The vent was also slightly blocked under the seat so that wouldn’t have helped.
The good thing is that I successfully drove it up my hill without it slipping which makes me feel a little more confident about savaging the clutch. But if the seal is gone I will have to split it anyway I guess and might as well do it while I’m there.

How do you tell if it’s a single stage or dual clutch? I am still a novice but I can feel the PTO engage before I move usually so I’m thinking dual clutch?

At the end of the day I’m certain it’s gear oil and it’s continually leaking. I don’t have a power steering box, but I wish I did as I have broken two Chinese copies and the original kubota steering box in the last 2 years. I think I must be working that FEL too hard. Haha

So I’ll have to split it to investigate the leak further I’m guessing. Maybe source the main seal and a clutch in the meantime?

Thanks a lot.

JFYI. Return oil from the loader cylinders is pumped into the sump so I would expect that to produce a small as in tiny increase in case pressure.

Sounds like your seal is just about non-existant.

Dan

 

[Russell King]

97% sure it’s a single stage clutch

 

[Dieseldonato]

L245dt 100% sure it's a single stage clutch, unless something has been wrong with my dad's for the 20odd years he's owned it.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Regarding your steering gearbox - how much rear counterweight do you run with your loader? Hanging more off the back will lighten the load on your axle, steering and arms.

 

[BiPolarBear]

Just so I’m positive can someone point out the fill level and fill point on the transmission? The Manuals arent helpful. But I filled it up using the cap behind the shifters and filled to the highlighted bolt from memory. But I’m starting to think it maybe the wrong bolt
See diagram below.
There was ballast in rear wheels but I took it out and I have the slasher on as a rule when using the fe loader. But it still doesn’t like all that extra weight even when empty. Power steering conversion would be ideal.

 

[woodman55]

Considering how quickly the oil is leaking, I would look in the access port with a flashlight and a mirror if needed, to verify where the oil is coming from. There have been a lot of needless repairs done because people "though" they knew where the fluid was coming from.

 

[BiPolarBear]

Yeah I got my light and mirror in there yesterday and all the oil was down low but very hard to judge through the inspection hole because of the clutch parts and the prop shaft Case. Looking at a picture I found the only place is the seal+ o ring. This video shows it in the first 5 minutes.

. He disassembles an entire trans which is cool to watch.
It took me a fair bit of research to get my head around the system so I will attach some pics just in case some other noob like me needs some info in the future.
Number 17 on the clutch diangram and 3 on the transmission diagram will be what I’m dealing with
I really don’t think I over filled it but would really like to be sure hahah. To be honest though looking at the pics even if it was over filled it still shouldn’t have access into the bellhousing anyway.

Thanks

 

[BiPolarBear]

Im hoping there is a chance I could source a seal locally using the part number from the below pics? See below for front view of trans and seal below.

 

[BiPolarBear]

Started the tractor split today.
The front end loader is going to cause massive dramas. Does anyone know if there are any detailed threads on doing this job or a clutch replacement?

The loader chassis/ support runs all the was to the rear where it's bolted to the ROPS/ axle. I had to plasma cut 2 of the four bolts that were welded in crooked or in accessible. It's also bolted in front of the bellhouing on a few places. My theory is that I should be able to leave these front bolts in place and roll the rear of the tractor away from the front to access the bellhousing. And now that the rear attachment of the FEL is free the rest of the rear end should be able to move around it.
There are a few supports in the way of the hyraulic hardlines which are going to make the job difficult. Looks like I'll have to move the soft lines that control the loader as well.
Any help or Tips will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Russell King]

Yes those are the correct fill and drain plug holes (or at least look the same as my L185)

Drain transmission fluid and remove the hydraulic lines that span the split line.

Take pictures of everything you need to remove as you go

At the front axle put blocks on both sides of the center pin to keep the engine from falling to the side

 

[BiPolarBear]

Yep I’ve got the fluid drained and the front axel held still.
The hyraulic hardlines are loose but they will not fit through the small gap between the loader mounts and engine.
I will send a photo when I get time to show you what I mean
Id be done by now if there wasn’tfor the loader being in the way.
I really want to avoid removing the entire loader unit if possible as my shed wont be able to bear the weight of it with a block and tackle. And it will be a pain to move the tractor now it’s been half dismantled.
I had to remove the rear gaurds to access the loader bolts.
Turning into a head scratcher for me.
see pics of loader mounts below. That rail runs all the way along and it blocking lines from being able to move..

 

[Dieseldonato]

I know whenever I have to do the clutch on my dads l245dt, the first thing that will be coming off is the loader and sub frame. It's in the way of literally everything. I know that's not what you want to hear, but I just don't know of an easy way to get everything apart to make life easy to split it.
And yes, those were the correct fill and level plugs.
The power steering conversion is also easier said then done. Aftermarket yoir pretty much on your own, and finding an oem power steering unit is darn near impossible. (At least around here) dad's L steers like a bear with a full bucket, even with the 7 foot box blade on the rear, not that it steers great when it's empty. Definitely not something you use a suicide knob on.

 

[BiPolarBear]

I drained the fluids and I have the tractor split. Had to remove the bucket and take one half of the loader Frame off to do it.
The seals looked fine so I decided to refill the transmission only to find it is leaking from a hole in the transmission. See pictures below.
Not sure if it’s a breather or if it should be plugged off. it looks to be at a similar level to the overflow/ fill level on the side of the transmission.
Any thoughts on plugging this up?
Because I live on a hilly property I believe the issue will persist if I do nothing.
The clutch disc is stuffed so I wouldn’t have been far away from doing the job anyway. Half of the material is missing hahaha
Thanks for the help