Used BX or B Series purchasing advice - questions

[TRUCK3]

I am looking to buy a SCUT/CUT this year, most likely used to stay within my budget. I want to stay with either John Deere or Kubota for resale if I find out that I need something bigger or smaller. Based on specs and checking out units on dealer lots, I initially was looking at a smaller frame JD 2 series or Kubota like the B2301/2601 along with the higher ground clearance and getting position control on the 3 point. When I started looking for used units, I was seeing many more used JD 1 series like 1025R and the Kubota BX models. From researching the smaller units and watching these tractors working, these smaller units seem like they can get a lot of work done like I'm looking to do and most come with a MMM which I might use this tractor for.

My concern with the BX and some B models is the 1/4 inching valve on the 3 point. I'd rather have position control based on knowing what I'm getting. From back in the day, the smallest ag tractors I ran were small utilities with position and draft control, so position control makes sense to me. I've watched some videos on the 1/4 inching valve and I think I know the basics of how it operates. My main question is once you have "set" the position, does it stay there like position control? I read about some non-position control tractors where the 3 point drifts down after trying to set it at certain position. If the 1/4 inching stays where set, might work out ok for me. That would open up the BX models and some of the older B models with the 1/4 inching control. My use would be primarily brush hog/flail, tiller, and maybe some box blade work.

My other question is with regard to Kubota parts availability for older units. I have no experience with Kubota, all my experience is with JD garden tractors. I have a very good, long-term Kubota dealer nearby. How long does Kubota maintain parts for older units? I see some older B units like the 2620 and 2400 which would fit my budget, but some of these back from the 90s. I have no issue with an older unit, but I would need parts access.

Thanks in advance for any comments on my questions.

 

[dirtydeed]

I've found that the 1/4 inching valve does leak down a bit over time, especially with something heavy on the hitch and if the machine/implement bounces. After setting the position, you can limit that leak down by closing off the valve located just under the seat.

One other point to possibly consider (I didn't see you mention it) would be 2 speed vs 3 speed transmission. BX and deere (1-2 series) have 2 speed trans. The Kubota B series would be a 3 speed. That can be a pretty big deal to some.

Can't answer your parts question directly, but I think that as long as you don't end up with a gray market tractor, parts availability shouldn't be a problem with Kubota.

 

[TRUCK3]

I've found that the 1/4 inching valve does leak down a bit over time, especially with something heavy on the hitch and if the machine/implement bounces. After setting the position, you can limit that leak down by closing off the valve located just under the seat.

One other point to possibly consider (I didn't see you mention it) would be 2 speed vs 3 speed transmission. BX and deere (1-2 series) have 2 speed trans. The Kubota B series would be a 3 speed. That can be a pretty big deal to some.

Can't answer your parts question directly, but I think that as long as you don't end up with a gray market tractor, parts availability shouldn't be a problem with Kubota.

Thanks for the reply and info on the 1/4 inching valve - not sure if that will work for me. Probably look for a model with position control. I have seen the difference with the 2 vs 3 range hydros in these size SCUT/CUT tractors. I've read some concerns/complaints about certain 2 range models or under certain conditions. A B model with a 3 range is probably my best bet, going to have to see if I can find that fits my budget.

 

[B737]

I also found the hitch to drift slightly on the bx. B2601 does not have quarter inching valve it has positional control. As far as parts, I owned a 15 year old BX and had no problem getting any parts needed for it. kubota has awesome parts support.

A B2601 is pretty much the same exact thing as a bx but with bigger tires.

 

[RalphVa]

I had probably what is calling a 1/4 inching 3ph control on the JD 4010 (like a 2019E if made today). It would hold the position but it was always trial and error to get back to that some position once you raised it or set it down.

I've had 3 JDs: 4010, 1025R and 2025R gen. 1. All the lower level JDs and Kubota BXs do not have turning brakes. The B retains them.

Here are some other things you should consider. Ways B2601 is better than JD 2 series
o Starts cold a lot better: no shudder/shake nor smoke..
o Float on FEL is very easily engaged, almost too easy.
o 2wd/4wd is so easy.
o Hydraulics are MUCH stronger. Flow is near 3 times but makes for a more jerky FEL use.
o Idles nicely at 1,100. The 1025R was abnoxious at 1,650; 2025R was 1,300.
o Drink holder is bigger than the joke one on the 2025R. Not sure it'll hold my little thermos. Put the Frontier doc holder top on the left side of the FEL tower as my drink holder.
o Parking brake is easier to disengage but seems a tad harder to engage.

o Guards to the valve stems.
o Metal covering over the driveshaft (JDs only have plastic)
o 3ph raises a tad higher
o The fuel cap actually screws on and off easier.

o The radiator overflow container is right in front and easy to get to. Needed a screwdriver to take the top off the one on the 2025R and a funnel with long snout to refill it. Then top was hard to put back on. Actually, the B’s is not much easier to get off, and a long snout funnel is needed on it.
o More room to get the end snorkel off the air cleaner.
o The brake pedal lock snaps off by tapping the pedals. Hard to get off at times on the JDs.
o Top link is really easy to turn, e.g. that grease point maybe. Actually smaller, too. The tilt one is also smaller and easy to turn if load is taken off it..
o Three position steering wheel.
o Of course, 3 range HST control. Only 2 on the JDs.

o Fuel use is 0.014 gph/engine hp vs. 0.025 gph/engine hp on 3 Yanmar JDs. Exhaust is not blackening the back side of the FEL.

o Slightly lower hood for easier refill. Have a battery pump that makes this easy by sitting container on foot area of the tractor.

o The stuff under the seat is easier to clean out. There’s a clear path to put silicone spray on all moving parts. All the JDs seemed to have a pan/sheet metal there that made cleanout almost impossible.

o Quiet HST vs. 3 JDs that whined like mad.

o No stinking driveshaft Ujoints to grease.

o STILL has steering brakes.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I've had my BX23S for 4 years now (just under 800hrs ),bought for the bucket and backhoe. It's small,agile, and does and amazing amount of work. No MMM as that was a $2500 option and a PITA to get on/off when required. I've got a 20 year old Cub Cadet rider for 'grass clipping' detail.
While it does what I want, I may 'upgrade' to a B2601,then neighbour and I can share implements. I'd also get higher lift /load capacity from the bucket,bigger BH, 3ph position control.
If you get a machine with loader, be sure to get SSQA ! I use the pallet forks probably 30-40% of the time.
How much grass /lawn do you need to cut ? What other jobs should the tractor do ?

 

[B737]

When I started looking for used units, I was seeing many more used JD 1 series like 1025R and the Kubota BX models.

you are seeing this phenomenon because SCUT are the gateway drug to CUT. People get into SCUT, then sell them to get into something larger. If you are feeling unsure, buying a used SCUT using it, and feeling out your needs may not be a bad plan. Most are sold used with mower decks. Then, should you want something larger, you can re-sell for similar $.

You'll see less of the slightly larger units for resale because people hang onto them

BX and B2601 are same HP, and same PTO (24.8 vs 24.3 respectively. 19.5 PTO). You are really just gaining ground clearance and 3 range HST on the B2601. Both are equally uncomfortable for more than 3-4 hours.

don't believe the nonsense posted above about them burning .3 gph, that is factually incorrect. Plan on a little under 1 gph if you actually use the thing.

 

[michigander]

180 hrs on my B2601 I'm averaging .61 gallons per hr. Mowing I'm positive burning a little more but not to bad. When I use MMM typically its at least week tall grass.

I'm very happy with that results

 

[Dieseldonato]

Parta availability for old kubitas isn't/shouldn't be a concern. I can get nearly everything for my dad 78 l245dt. I have an older B7510 with the 2 speed hydro. There's never been anything I couldn't accomplish between the 2 speeds. I mean really it's a hydrostatic drive system, how many gear ranges do you need? If it can't do it in high, use low.

I have no issues with the 1/4 inching 3 point lift. I would prefer position control, but not a deal breaker by any means, and since I've gotten used to it I kinda prefer it for box grading. Pure dirt work, plowing, disk etc doesn't really matter.
I haven't had any leakage issues with weight on the 3 point that wasn't sitting for quite some time. Ie, hours. During work it holds just fine. If you want it to stay up, use the speed/holding valve like suggested above.
Really neither is draft control, neither even comes close to comparing.

I'm not a bx fan and never was. Good machines, but don't do anything my old cub cadet doesn't do. Just as low to the ground as well. Lots of guys like them though. I like the higher stance and the higher capabilities of the B series. To me its the goldilocks size before jumping to a larger tractor. Small enough to do the little jobs, big enough to do the few heavy jobs.

 

[Henro]

I have a BX and a B. No comparison really. The B does more work, has more ground clearance, is just step bigger in size.

BUT the BX with four foam filled tires and the MMM, is head and shoulders better than the B on cross slopes.

I like the BX, but when real work needs done, it is the B every time. I do not have a loader on the BX though...but if I did, I don't think it would compare work wise to the B anyway.

It really depends on what you expect to do with the tractor. Larger is better if lots of work is anticipated.

I like both for what they are...but have thought a L series might be nice sometimes...never ends really.

Edit: Not sure this response is relevant to you questions though...

 

[PaulL]

1/4 inching valve. I had a BX, it was never a problem for me. But it comes down to the work you do.

Bush hog/flail, you don't really go to a set position, you lift it up for transport, you put it down for mowing. Tiller work you might want a fixed set point, but last tiller I used had rails on it, and I put it all the way down onto those rails. Dirt work - I did some levelling, and I found I was constantly adjusting anyway - so whether I had position control or 1/4 inching really would make no difference.

I have a B now, and I don't find the position control massively different.

However, that all comes down to my use - I mostly have my 3ph all the way up, or all the way down. I sometimes set to a point in the middle, but that point isn't really a fixed point that I need to return to again and again. If you were plowing a field, that'd be quite different.....but you probably shouldn't use a BX for that.

As for leak down - wasn't a problem I ever had, but again a tiller doesn't really leak down, and things that are all the way up generally stay all the way up. Dirt work you constantly adjust anyway, so who can tell whether your machine has changed angle v's leak down.

I think it comes down to the pasture work - bush hog/flail. If that use requires a fixed height, then 1/4 inching would take some practice to return to the right height all the time (assuming you lift at the end of each pass). If you're just mowing for an hour at a fixed height, probably not a big deal.

 

[Quick]

Love my B, but one thing the 1 and 2 series JD's do better is position the steering tie rod ends behind the axle instead of in front. First thing I tore up was the flimsy tie rod end covers when moving brush with the grapple.

 

[fishdrivel]

I also found the hitch to drift slightly on the bx. B2601 does not have quarter inching valve it has positional control. As far as parts, I owned a 15 year old BX and had no problem getting any parts needed for it. kubota has awesome parts support.

A B2601 is pretty much the same exact thing as a bx but with bigger tires.

I beg to differ.

Very different unit

 

[Dieseldonato]

I beg to differ.

Very different unit

Different axle, transmission, frame, tires..... kinda like it's a bigger tractor lol..

 

[B737]

I beg to differ.
Very different unit

not really.
Owned both, they are very much the same. One has bigger tires. Both have cramped uncomfortable operator stations, look at them side by side, same seat nearly identical amounts of room and spacing. Both have same PTO HP, both have same engine HP. B2601 way more tippy, so the BX has that going for it. Spend 4-6 hours in the seat of a BX, and in a B2601, your body will tell you they are the same.

For me, moving from BX to B2601 was a huge mistake because of the overlap of both machines. YMMV

 

[PaulL]

not really.
Owned both, they are very much the same. One has bigger tires. Both have cramped uncomfortable operator stations, look at them side by side, same seat nearly identical amounts of room and spacing. Both have same PTO HP, both have same engine HP. B2601 way more tippy, so the BX has that going for it. Spend 4-6 hours in the seat of a BX, and in a B2601, your body will tell you they are the same.

For me, moving from BX to B2601 was a huge mistake because of the overlap of both machines. YMMV

Disagree. I had a BX, I moved to a B2601. So I guess I have skin in the game and may be biased. But I did my research very carefully.

The physical size of the machine (length, width) is not that much different. But the rest is quite different. Basically the BX is built to be the size of a lawn tractor, and to be the gateway drug. It's for guys to bring home and say to their wife "it's just a lawn mower, see, it's not much bigger than the old rider". Whereas a B2601 is quite clearly a small tractor.

The BX has a lot of compromises in geometry because of that desire to make it look small - the 3ph doesn't have enough range of motion, and lifts surprisingly little weight (not all that much more than the FEL). The B2601 lifts a lot more on the 3ph.

The B2601 has two curl rams instead of one. It has 3 range gearbox. It has position control. It has quite a lot more ground clearance. The engines in the B series are basically one size up from those in the BX - so the B2301 has the same engine as the BX2680, but running lower revs. Therefore they have more torque at the same HP, and are quieter running.

The BX has to have a dedicated frame reinforcement added to run a backhoe - you have to buy the BX23S from the factory, you can't add a backhoe later. The B can have a backhoe added as a dealer option because the frame is already strong enough. The B front axle is a lot stronger (the BX front axle is a known weak point....but it has those little tires, so if you're putting enough weight on it to damage the axles, you're putting on more weight than the tires should take as well). The rear HST is substantially different and more robust.

A lot of the other measures and capacities are basically 30% up on the BX. 30% isn't so much you go "wow, that's a much more powerful tractor." It does more, but not a lot more. Rule of thumb I heard is you need at least 50% more to feel like you've made a noticeable difference - so the LX would be the jump from the BX that would feel like a lot more.

It's really not true to say they're the same tractor, they share basically no components. But like the whole Kubota range, every step up is only 30%. BX -> B -> LX -> L -> Grand L or MX -> M. 30% jump each time.

 

[B737]

I had a BX, I moved to a B2601. So I guess I have skin in the game and may be biased. But I did my research very carefully.

me too, and after 500 hours on BX and 300 hours on B2601 (in 9 months) they sure felt the same to me. Both machines were incredibly uncomfortable and performed the same tasks with nearly the same limitations. but thats just me. YMMV.

 

[RalphVa]

180 hrs on my B2601 I'm averaging .61 gallons per hr. Mowing I'm positive burning a little more but not to bad. When I use MMM typically its at least week tall grass.

I'm very happy with that results

This is what I expected from the 3 JDs for the B2601 hp. However, it is still running below 0.4 gph using it just like I did the 3 JDs. One other B2650 owner reported 0.44 gph.

 

[RalphVa]

me too, and after 500 hours on BX and 300 hours on B2601 (in 9 months) they sure felt the same to me. Both machines were incredibly uncomfortable and performed the same tasks with nearly the same limitations. but thats just me. YMMV.

The B2601 is more comfortable than the JD2025R. The lemony JD1025R was a tad more comfortable than the 2025R but about same as the B2601.

 

[RalphVa]

Disagree. I had a BX, I moved to a B2601. So I guess I have skin in the game and may be biased. But I did my research very carefully.

The physical size of the machine (length, width) is not that much different. But the rest is quite different. Basically the BX is built to be the size of a lawn tractor, and to be the gateway drug. It's for guys to bring home and say to their wife "it's just a lawn mower, see, it's not much bigger than the old rider". Whereas a B2601 is quite clearly a small tractor.

The BX has a lot of compromises in geometry because of that desire to make it look small - the 3ph doesn't have enough range of motion, and lifts surprisingly little weight (not all that much more than the FEL). The B2601 lifts a lot more on the 3ph.

The B2601 has two curl rams instead of one. It has 3 range gearbox. It has position control. It has quite a lot more ground clearance. The engines in the B series are basically one size up from those in the BX - so the B2301 has the same engine as the BX2680, but running lower revs. Therefore they have more torque at the same HP, and are quieter running.

The BX has to have a dedicated frame reinforcement added to run a backhoe - you have to buy the BX23S from the factory, you can't add a backhoe later. The B can have a backhoe added as a dealer option because the frame is already strong enough. The B front axle is a lot stronger (the BX front axle is a known weak point....but it has those little tires, so if you're putting enough weight on it to damage the axles, you're putting on more weight than the tires should take as well). The rear HST is substantially different and more robust.

A lot of the other measures and capacities are basically 30% up on the BX. 30% isn't so much you go "wow, that's a much more powerful tractor." It does more, but not a lot more. Rule of thumb I heard is you need at least 50% more to feel like you've made a noticeable difference - so the LX would be the jump from the BX that would feel like a lot more.

It's really not true to say they're the same tractor, they share basically no components. But like the whole Kubota range, every step up is only 30%. BX -> B -> LX -> L -> Grand L or MX -> M. 30% jump each time.

The B2601 has steering brakes not on the BX and above-floor HST cooler (same as coolant fan).

Every once in a while, particularly moving snow, steering brakes are needed. They worked really well on the JD4010 (like a 2019E if made). I did raised garden rows with it, hitting one brake to quickly turn it to go to the next row.