Larger bore cylinders on FEL?

[Nashty]

Just picked up my 2018 BX2360 and really love this thing. First upgrades were replacing the turf tires with WT300's and some bucket reinforcement and chain hooks. Also have the Piranaho on order but did receive and am about to install the shim kit.

I was realistic about the bucket force but am still a little underwhelmed. So I have to ask.

Has anyone put larger cylinders on the FEL to increase force? If so, how? Have a shop weld on larger parts to the stock ends? Is there an aftermarket kit to do this?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Trying to up size the cylinders, you would just end up breaking things, you shouldn't break.
There is a reason that the lift force is what it is, everything is sized accordingly.
If you need more more lift, you can make sure the system pressure is up to the upper limit (don't go over pressure).
Or if you need even more, go buy a bigger tractor.

 

[torch]

Increasing the cylinder diameter a small amount increases the forces applied by a huge amount. Going from 1-1/2" to 2" might almost double the force applied. Remember that the lift arms are big levers, with the cylinder mounts forming the fulcrum and the fulcrum sees twice the load. It's not a straight vertical force either -- the lift cylinders start at a considerable angle and push out as much or more than they push up, so they are trying as much to bend the posts as they are trying to lift the load.

If they do lift the increased load, where is the sum total of the lifting forces eventually applied? The front axle. Yes, you can add weight to the back for stability, and if you add enough weight far enough behind the rear wheels, you will start to transfer some of that extra load to the rear wheels, but again, the front axle is a fulcrum and the fulcrum sees a total of the forces at both ends of the lever.

I just took two paragraphs to explain what Wolfman said in two sentences, but the conclusion is the same. Once you have reached the design limits, the best way to go bigger is to go bigger.

 

[85Hokie]

Sir Issaac Newton third law said it the shortest!!!!

 

[torch]

Sir Issaac Newton third law said it the shortest!!!!

True that!!!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Just picked up my 2018 BX2360 and really love this thing. First upgrades were replacing the turf tires with WT300's and some bucket reinforcement and chain hooks. Also have the Piranaho on order but did receive and am about to install the shim kit.

I was realistic about the bucket force but am still a little underwhelmed. So I have to ask.

Has anyone put larger cylinders on the FEL to increase force? If so, how? Have a shop weld on larger parts to the stock ends? Is there an aftermarket kit to do this?

All you have to do is spend a couple hundred bucks for larger cylinders and pin them on. But you do so at the risk of making your machine dangerously unstable. The loader lift capacity is designed to match the safe load handling capacity of the machine. If you need to handle larger loads you need a larger tractor not a stronger loader.

Dan

 

[mikester]

I tried putting bigger springs on my 1983 honda civic hatchback but the POS still won't tow a 10,000 lb trailer. It barely tows an empty trailer, I can barely get it off the jack stand...it doesn't want to tow it fully loaded. WTF

 

[Henro]

Aside from the safety and equipment damage issues, larger cylinders would also slow down the movement of the loader arms, due to the increased internal volume.

Just adding an additional thought that I don't think was mentioned in posts above...might have missed it though...story of my life these days...

 

[mcfarmall]

Sir Issaac Newton third law said it the shortest!!!!

Wouldn't know. I never studied law.

 

[JeremyBX2200]

First thing to do would be to check the hydraulic pressure and then add some shims to increase the pressure if it isn’t already at the upper limits. There are plenty of threads talking about the safe pressure limits for the BX. This is what I did to increase my lifting and curl force. BXpanded has a nice kit.

Hydraulic Pressure Testers

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Be sure to upgrade the front tires when you better the cylinders !

 

[Nashty]

Thank you everyone for the safety advice. Much appreciated.

So at least no one who's viewed this post has ever done this?

I understand all the match (F=P*A), that's why i wanted something slightly bigger. I bought this tractor because of it's size, not capacity. Now customizing to fit my needs.

 

[85Hokie]

Thank you everyone for the safety advice. Much appreciated.

So at least no one who's viewed this post has ever done this?

I understand all the match (F=P*A), that's why i wanted something slightly bigger. I bought this tractor because of it's size, not capacity. Now customizing to fit my needs.

The 50 cent washer will help a great deal - you will see and feel the added pressure in the FEL - it is noticeable

 

[torch]

Thank you everyone for the safety advice. Much appreciated.

So at least no one who's viewed this post has ever done this?

I understand all the match (F=P*A), that's why i wanted something slightly bigger. I bought this tractor because of it's size, not capacity. Now customizing to fit my needs.

Not exactly, no. But I did build my own FEL and bought 2" cylinders because they were on sale when 1-1/2" cylinders would have been adequate to the tractor's capacity. I figured the thicker rams were more robust and thought I could simply adjust the pressure relief valve to limit the lift capacity to the tractor's rated capacity.

What I failed to account for is that reducing the relief valve setting also reduces the 3PH lift capacity. In order to retain the 3PH capacity, I have to be very careful not to lift more than I should. I bent a post (heavy wall 3" square tube) and almost tipped the tractor over a couple of times as part of the learning process.

And as Henro pointed out, the loader is slower than it would be with smaller cylinders. I eventually bought a bigger pump to compensate. If I was doing it over again, I would go with the 1-1/2" cylinders that better match the capacity of my tractor.

So I'm not trying to be a nanny, just trying to avoid grief by giving a new owner the benefit of my hard-won experience. Your tractor, your choice. Good luck!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Not exactly, no. But I did build my own FEL and bought 2" cylinders because they were on sale when 1-1/2" cylinders would have been adequate to the tractor's capacity. I figured the thicker rams were more robust and thought I could simply adjust the pressure relief valve to limit the lift capacity to the tractor's rated capacity.

What I failed to account for is that reducing the relief valve setting also reduces the 3PH lift capacity. In order to retain the 3PH capacity, I have to be very careful not to lift more than I should. I bent a post (heavy wall 3" square tube) and almost tipped the tractor over a couple of times as part of the learning process.

And as Henro pointed out, the loader is slower than it would be with smaller cylinders. I eventually bought a bigger pump to compensate. If I was doing it over again, I would go with the 1-1/2" cylinders that better match the capacity of my tractor.

So I'm not trying to be a nanny, just trying to avoid grief by giving a new owner the benefit of my hard-won experience. Your tractor, your choice. Good luck!

Nothing some port reliefs on that loader can't fix.

Dan

 

[torch]

Nothing some port reliefs on that loader can't fix.

True. I didn't know about them at the time. Learning is an endless journey...