Front axle Bevel Case Oil Seal Replacement

[GeoHorn]

I was unable to get online for a couple days and wasn’t able to post this info, but I hope it’ll be helpful to others so here is my question/dilemma … followed by what I discovered …(thanks HIGHLY to “Doug” in Service at MESSICKS’….and absolutely CONTRARY to what my local Kubota Service told me.)


Problem:
My M4700DT developed a front axle oil leak at the left bevel gear case oil seal (item 8. Notice the pic shows the seal to be a two-piece seal..but it’s actually a one-piece…similar to a common wheel bearing seal or any axle seal.)
I ordered the parts and disassembled it and I’m attempting to reassemble it. but the lower case will not slide up onto the upper. I had pressed the new seal into position with the metal “base” down..into what is labelled the “front” gear case. (The rubber lips facing up…as that is how the old one appeared as it came out.)
It appears the oil seal must now slide up surrounding the bevel case…and refuses to do so by hand….the inner metal surface of the seals’ base is rubber-coated it appears to tightly-grip the bevel case “post” or “stub” (whatever we should call it)…and it’s such a tight fit ..it seems to be the issue. I’ve tried pushing the front gear case onto the bevel case using a floor-jack.
It is refusing to the point of the floor jack actually lifting the front axle and tractor completely off the jackstands supporting the front of the tractor.
The WSM does not have a good illustration (as seen below) but only mentions to pay attention (note direction) of the seal. (I installed it with the lips facing up and the metal base of the oil seal down…into the front case …because that is how the old one came out.)

I’m beginning to wonder if the new superceded part number shouldn’t be installed with the metal base UP and the Lips DOWN…to facilitate the unit sliding upward during reassembly.

Anyone ever do this job…??

Solution”
OK…figured this out WITH THE HELP OF DOUG AT MESSICKS! (My local Kubota Dealer is full of Poop and nearly cost me serious money.)

The illustration above indicates the oil seal is TWO PIECE… but a new seal has a superceded PN …which can mislead you into thinking the new seal (which comes completely assembled in the bag) is a ONE piece seal. This can cause you to think THAT is the reason for the new PN.

NOT!

What happened is when the lower gear case (Kubota calls it a “front” case) is dropped off the “bevel” case…. the installed oil seal can separate into two parts…with the main portion remaining in the lower case…. and the Inner metal base remaining on the bevel case “stub” (my term.)… and it well NOT be apparent. The inner metal base will appear to be a “step’ machined into the bevel case stub.
When the portion remaining in the lower case is removed…it will appear to be the complete seal. But it’s NOT.

And when a new seal is put into the lower case…it WILL NOT be capable of sliding completely up onto the bevel case stub …because the inner-metal-base will have stuck onto it as a “ring” of steel.

That RING must be removed (I used large channel lock pliers) before the lower case with the new seal can be slid up/onto the bevel case stub.

BY THE WAY; … the new seal is installed with the rubber lips facing DOWN! …and the metal base UP…to slide onto the bevel case stub.

Hope this helps.

Here’s a pic of the point where I discovered the problem of the lower case not being able to slide up onto the bevel case stub: (I should mention that the oil seal in-question is a common oil-seal for Kubotas…. This design is still in -use in current models…. It is not obsolete information that I am poinint out. Hope this helps ohters avoid problems.

 

[hagrid]

Hope this helps ohters avoid problems.

 

[GeoHorn]

Those guys are cute… but otters are messy pets. Ohter-wise…. LOL.

Moral of the OP: Closely inspect to confirm ALL the old seal* is removed… The portion left-behind can very convincingly appear to be part of the bevel-case “stub”.

* “seal” is not an animal.

 

[GeoHorn]

 

[tvman]

I was unable to get online for a couple days and wasn’t able to post this info, but I hope it’ll be helpful to others so here is my question/dilemma … followed by what I discovered …(thanks HIGHLY to “Doug” in Service at MESSICKS’….and absolutely CONTRARY to what my local Kubota Service told me.)


Problem:
My M4700DT developed a front axle oil leak at the left bevel gear case oil seal (item 8. Notice the pic shows the seal to be a two-piece seal..but it’s actually a one-piece…similar to a common wheel bearing seal or any axle seal.)
I ordered the parts and disassembled it and I’m attempting to reassemble it. but the lower case will not slide up onto the upper. I had pressed the new seal into position with the metal “base” down..into what is labelled the “front” gear case. (The rubber lips facing up…as that is how the old one appeared as it came out.)
It appears the oil seal must now slide up surrounding the bevel case…and refuses to do so by hand….the inner metal surface of the seals’ base is rubber-coated it appears to tightly-grip the bevel case “post” or “stub” (whatever we should call it)…and it’s such a tight fit ..it seems to be the issue. I’ve tried pushing the front gear case onto the bevel case using a floor-jack.
It is refusing to the point of the floor jack actually lifting the front axle and tractor completely off the jackstands supporting the front of the tractor.
The WSM does not have a good illustration (as seen below) but only mentions to pay attention (note direction) of the seal. (I installed it with the lips facing up and the metal base of the oil seal down…into the front case …because that is how the old one came out.)

I’m beginning to wonder if the new superceded part number shouldn’t be installed with the metal base UP and the Lips DOWN…to facilitate the unit sliding upward during reassembly.

Anyone ever do this job…??

View attachment 76812


Solution”
OK…figured this out WITH THE HELP OF DOUG AT MESSICKS! (My local Kubota Dealer is full of Poop and nearly cost me serious money.)

The illustration above indicates the oil seal is TWO PIECE… but a new seal has a superceded PN …which can mislead you into thinking the new seal (which comes completely assembled in the bag) is a ONE piece seal. This can cause you to think THAT is the reason for the new PN.

NOT!

What happened is when the lower gear case (Kubota calls it a “front” case) is dropped off the “bevel” case…. the installed oil seal can separate into two parts…with the main portion remaining in the lower case…. and the Inner metal base remaining on the bevel case “stub” (my term.)… and it well NOT be apparent. The inner metal base will appear to be a “step’ machined into the bevel case stub.
When the portion remaining in the lower case is removed…it will appear to be the complete seal. But it’s NOT.

And when a new seal is put into the lower case…it WILL NOT be capable of sliding completely up onto the bevel case stub …because the inner-metal-base will have stuck onto it as a “ring” of steel.

That RING must be removed (I used large channel lock pliers) before the lower case with the new seal can be slid up/onto the bevel case stub.

BY THE WAY; … the new seal is installed with the rubber lips facing DOWN! …and the metal base UP…to slide onto the bevel case stub.

Hope this helps.

Here’s a pic of the point where I discovered the problem of the lower case not being able to slide up onto the bevel case stub: (I should mention that the oil seal in-question is a common oil-seal for Kubotas…. This design is still in -use in current models…. It is not obsolete information that I am poinint out. Hope this helps ohters avoid problems.
View attachment 76855

I just finished replacing that same oil seal on my B7500. I found a video on u-tube. Just type in Replacing axle seal on B7500.

The video is quite informative, I've saved it in my favorites bookmarks.

 

[GeoHorn]

I just finished replacing that same oil seal on my B7500. I found a video on u-tube. Just type in Replacing axle seal on B7500.

The video is quite informative, I've saved it in my favorites bookmarks.

That’s a nice video… I’ll point out a few things however…
The larger tractors such as the M-series has TWO circlips holding the lower case up onto the bevel case. If one relies upon this video for a different model tractor …you can be frustrated at the least and damned angry at the broken casting when you miss that second circlip.
There is also a “plug” which is at the very bottom of the lower case which must be popped out with a screwdriver to remove a lower circlip. (Without that info, one might actually fracture the lower case by hammering upon it.)
Additionally, the videographer/presenter makes a point of what he termed the “inner race” of that oil seal. I had the same experience in that it stuck onto the bevel-case shaft/stub…and had to remove it. (That was actually the biggest puzzle I had …and I could have benefitted from viewing this video prior to my repair.)
However, he separates the oil seal into TWO parts….to hammer the “inner race” up onto the bevel case shaft/stub. This is completely unnecessary. Simply install the complete seal (do not separate it into two pieces) …install the complete seal into the lower case….then slide the lower case up onto the bevel-case and it will not require using the old race as a driver nor use a hammer to pound the “inner race” up onto the shaft/stub at all.
I don’t like hammering around all the places he did… for instance, the best way to remove a tie-rod is to utilize a tie-rod “fork”. If you don’t have one… AutoZone will Loan you one for free. That avoids the hazard of fracturing that cast-steel lower case/tie-rod bellcrank area.
Using a chisel to “hammer” the axle-case apart was frightening to me. I used a putty-knife to insert between the castings to open it up…and it was quite easy with no hammering. (and no chance of disturbing/peening that critical surface where the two cases must meet/and/seal.)

But I don’t mean to be too critical. It’s a good video and would have certainly warned me about that “inner race” having a tendency to stick on the bevel case shaft/stub. Would have saved me a couple hours of head scratching and another $ 80 to replace that new seal.

<edit> To be fair, the Illustrated Parts Catalog as well as the WSM show that the oil seal is Two Pieces. The problem is: The Part Number has been superceded…and the new part is sold in one bag as an assembled single part which does not appear to be capable of being separated. This is the major part of the reason I originated this thread… in order to warn others that when removing the old seal…BE CERTAIN you have removed BOTH portions of the old seal before attempting to re-assemble the two cases.>

Anyway, be certain to use a WSM for YOUR model to be informed of little differences that can cost you dearly.

Thanks, tvman for posting that.

 

[tvman]

That’s a nice video… I’ll point out a few things however…
The larger tractors such as the M-series has TWO circlips holding the lower case up onto the bevel case. If one relies upon this video for a different model tractor …you can be frustrated at the least and damned angry at the broken casting when you miss that second circlip.
There is also a “plug” which is at the very bottom of the lower case which must be popped out with a screwdriver to remove a lower circlip. (Without that info, one might actually fracture the lower case by hammering upon it.)
Additionally, the videographer/presenter makes a point of what he termed the “inner race” of that oil seal. I had the same experience in that it stuck onto the bevel-case shaft/stub…and had to remove it. (That was actually the biggest puzzle I had …and I could have benefitted from viewing this video prior to my repair.)
However, he separates the oil seal into TWO parts….to hammer the “inner race” up onto the bevel case shaft/stub. This is completely unnecessary. Simply install the complete seal (do not separate it into two pieces) …install the complete seal into the lower case….then slide the lower case up onto the bevel-case and it will not require using the old race as a driver nor use a hammer to pound the “inner race” up onto the shaft/stub at all.
I don’t like hammering around all the places he did… for instance, the best way to remove a tie-rod is to utilize a tie-rod “fork”. If you don’t have one… AutoZone will Loan you one for free. That avoids the hazard of fracturing that cast-steel lower case/tie-rod bellcrank area.
Using a chisel to “hammer” the axle-case apart was frightening to me. I used a putty-knife to insert between the castings to open it up…and it was quite easy with no hammering. (and no chance of disturbing/peening that critical surface where the two cases must meet/and/seal.)

But I don’t mean to be too critical. It’s a good video and would certainly warned me about that “inner race” having a tendency to stick on the bevel case shaft/stub. Would have saved me a couple hours of head scratching and another $ 80 to replace that new seal.

Anyway, be certain to use a WSM for YOUR model to be informed of little differences that can cost you dearly.

Thanks, tvman for posting that.

In hindsight, if I have to replace the seal on the other side, I probably wont remove that sleeve. Mine looked perfectly fine.

I wonder if all Kubotas use that same setup for the knuckle seal. I also today ordered the WSM for my B7500, I found a website that offered the manual for $29, I received it in about 5min in PDF. Dealer wanted $130.LOL

 

[GeoHorn]

The el-cheapo/online versions are often pirate-ware… And they can be difficult to navigate because the chapters are not easily searchable.

On a similar matter, I purchased the official Kubota Illustrated Parts Catalog (IPC) for my machine…and perusing thru it realized it is not up-to-date with regard to part-number super-cessions. (Without a revision-service an owner will never be assured of the current part number.)

While having the IPC on-hand is good illustrative-support for making repairs….it is not the best for actually ordering parts…and conceivably one could order and receive an obsolete part without knowing it.
It’s a really nice service that Messicks has an IPC online which provides both old and current part numbers…. and it was really nice that the Messicks Service Mgr Doug would spend time on the phone with someone who had purchased their parts locally….and received wrong information from that local source (which contributed to the damage/waste of a new part). It might be worth considering that the shipping charges for a parts purchase from Messicks is small price for such good support.

OEM Kubota Parts & Accessories (In-Store & Online) | Messicks

Messick's has the industry's largest ready-to-ship, in-stock inventory of OEM Kubota parts and accessories for sale online. We ship nationwide, often same day.

messicks.com

 

[Butch]

I was unable to get online for a couple days and wasn’t able to post this info, but I hope it’ll be helpful to others so here is my question/dilemma … followed by what I discovered …(thanks HIGHLY to “Doug” in Service at MESSICKS’….and absolutely CONTRARY to what my local Kubota Service told me.)


Problem:
My M4700DT developed a front axle oil leak at the left bevel gear case oil seal (item 8. Notice the pic shows the seal to be a two-piece seal..but it’s actually a one-piece…similar to a common wheel bearing seal or any axle seal.)
I ordered the parts and disassembled it and I’m attempting to reassemble it. but the lower case will not slide up onto the upper. I had pressed the new seal into position with the metal “base” down..into what is labelled the “front” gear case. (The rubber lips facing up…as that is how the old one appeared as it came out.)
It appears the oil seal must now slide up surrounding the bevel case…and refuses to do so by hand….the inner metal surface of the seals’ base is rubber-coated it appears to tightly-grip the bevel case “post” or “stub” (whatever we should call it)…and it’s such a tight fit ..it seems to be the issue. I’ve tried pushing the front gear case onto the bevel case using a floor-jack.
It is refusing to the point of the floor jack actually lifting the front axle and tractor completely off the jackstands supporting the front of the tractor.
The WSM does not have a good illustration (as seen below) but only mentions to pay attention (note direction) of the seal. (I installed it with the lips facing up and the metal base of the oil seal down…into the front case …because that is how the old one came out.)

I’m beginning to wonder if the new superceded part number shouldn’t be installed with the metal base UP and the Lips DOWN…to facilitate the unit sliding upward during reassembly.

Anyone ever do this job…??

View attachment 76812


Solution”
OK…figured this out WITH THE HELP OF DOUG AT MESSICKS! (My local Kubota Dealer is full of Poop and nearly cost me serious money.)

The illustration above indicates the oil seal is TWO PIECE… but a new seal has a superceded PN …which can mislead you into thinking the new seal (which comes completely assembled in the bag) is a ONE piece seal. This can cause you to think THAT is the reason for the new PN.

NOT!

What happened is when the lower gear case (Kubota calls it a “front” case) is dropped off the “bevel” case…. the installed oil seal can separate into two parts…with the main portion remaining in the lower case…. and the Inner metal base remaining on the bevel case “stub” (my term.)… and it well NOT be apparent. The inner metal base will appear to be a “step’ machined into the bevel case stub.
When the portion remaining in the lower case is removed…it will appear to be the complete seal. But it’s NOT.

And when a new seal is put into the lower case…it WILL NOT be capable of sliding completely up onto the bevel case stub …because the inner-metal-base will have stuck onto it as a “ring” of steel.

That RING must be removed (I used large channel lock pliers) before the lower case with the new seal can be slid up/onto the bevel case stub.

BY THE WAY; … the new seal is installed with the rubber lips facing DOWN! …and the metal base UP…to slide onto the bevel case stub.

Hope this helps.

Here’s a pic of the point where I discovered the problem of the lower case not being able to slide up onto the bevel case stub: (I should mention that the oil seal in-question is a common oil-seal for Kubotas…. This design is still in -use in current models…. It is not obsolete information that I am poinint out. Hope this helps ohters avoid problems.
View attachment 76855

Replaced my seals last summer... it took two days... not hard... I am just old...