L4400, starter clicks won't crank. When the starter is unbolted from engine it is activated like it should be. Makes me think it is a grounding issue. Cleaned ground at battery. All sensors for operator protection circuit have been replaced. Its a manual transmission.
starter issues
- Thread starter Secretriver
- Start date
what makes the click is the power being sent to the solenoid. The solenoid inside has a rotating copper wheel that get pushed against 2 copper contacts. What happens is that these contacts get burnt so does the copper wheel and when this happens there is no power being sent to the brushes to spin the starter . Another thing is that the brushes can be worn down and not making good contact with the armature. This is why sometimes if you tap on the starter you can get it to spin. Of course everything is dependant on the cables coming from the battery ,they have to be clean in every contact area.
GreensvilleJay
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Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Unlikely a 'grounding' issue providing the ground cable is new or in very good condition.
Unlikely it's the starter solenoid, as starter works 'on the bench'
Work back from the starter solenoid wiring, checking that every connection is clean and tight.
If it spins with a long jumper from battery +12 to the starter solenoid tab, then the problem is in the +12 battery to ignition switch to safety switches to solenoid wiring.
You need a good, wiring diagram to properly troubleshoot.
Unlikely it's the starter solenoid, as starter works 'on the bench'
Work back from the starter solenoid wiring, checking that every connection is clean and tight.
If it spins with a long jumper from battery +12 to the starter solenoid tab, then the problem is in the +12 battery to ignition switch to safety switches to solenoid wiring.
You need a good, wiring diagram to properly troubleshoot.
Pau7220
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Equipment
L3650 GST, Landpride TL250 FEL w/ Piranha, 6' King Kutter, GM1084R Finish
It is very likely a connection issue… B+or B- (ground). You cleaned the battery connection, what about the frame connection? … common failure point. What are the cable conditions? Is the click at the solenoid or a relay? What do the lights and dash do when trying to start? A voltage drop test will quickly track it down with a cheap DVOM. Just search YouTube video for quick instructions.
Took starter off to take to starter shop, they replaced the contacts. Put it under load and everything seemed fine. Hooked it up and same issue. Mechanic friend came out and tested electrical circuits. Unbolted it and it worked once. Reattached to block then just clicked. He said it was starter. Skeptical but took it back to starter shop re tested. Starter shop was skeptical. Put it back on tractor and it started about a dozen times over a course of a couple weeks then the same symptoms started again. OK maybe it doesn't have enough power to turn flywheel even though the flywheel is easy to turn with a screw driver. Bought a new starter same symptoms. Cables are clean and tight and voltage checked out.
The grounds I know about are by the battery and where the starter bolts to the block. Cleaned the one by the battery. Cables aren't cracked or worn. Clicks at fuel shut off and solenoid and a get a seat safety switch click when lifting the seat up and down.
I think it is time for you to invest in a voltmeter if you do not have one.
You need to know a couple things to draw more conclusions.
First, what is the voltage on the starter terminal, which is fed from the battery, when the issue is occurring?
Second, what is the voltage on the terminal which is fed by the safety circuit, and causes the starter solenoid to energize, when the problem occurs?
Both measurements referenced to the battery negative terminal, which is essentially the frame ground, if the battery connection to the frame is good.
Without these basic measurements you are just guessing. Knowing them can point you towards the source of the problem.
I have a voltage meter, what I'm lacking is extra hands right now. Understand your diagnosis, Thanks. It just doesn't make sense to me why the starter plunger engages when it is unbolted from the block and grounded with cables from the starter to a big bolt,
Wait!
Gounded to a big bolt where? This might be significant. Bolt on the frame rather than the engine?
If you apply the same ground cable when the starter is installed on the engine do you get the same result?
North Idaho Wolfman
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With the starter on the tractor, have you tried jumping from the battery cable side (bolt) on the starter to the solenoid (spade) connection?
Replace your ground cable with a good jumper cable and see what happens. Not necessary to remove the existing cable, but use the jumper cable to run in parallel. Get a good solid connection to the battery negative terminal and then to the frame. Clean both ends to shiny, bare metal.
If that doesn't do it, leave the ground jumper in place and do the same with your B+ cable, too. Battery to starter.
A cable can have corrosion inside the jacket that is not obvious from the outside, and a bad cable can measure good continuity with a meter. Might even be able to light up your dash, click a relay, etc. Put a real load on it and it won't carry the current required to spin a starter.
Quite possible your main cable going to the starter is bad.
The main heavy cable like others have said could be the source of your problem . A safety switch problem isn't going to allow the solenoid to even click ??
Like Henro suggested . Turn key have voltmeter hooked up to the power from the solenoid to starter brushes and see if you have power at that connection when you activate the key. ???
The main heavy cable like others have said could be the source of your problem . A safety switch problem isn't going to allow the solenoid to even click ??
Like Henro suggested . Turn key have voltmeter hooked up to the power from the solenoid to starter brushes and see if you have power at that connection when you activate the key. ???
Pau7220
Well-known member
Equipment
L3650 GST, Landpride TL250 FEL w/ Piranha, 6' King Kutter, GM1084R Finish
Again…. If it actually the solenoid clicking, a voltage drop test will find the problem very quickly. A cheap DVOM and a couple of test lead extensions and alligator clips. Extra hands are not necessary.
1. Batt voltage when trying to crank
2. Reading from B+ post to starter large terminal when trying to crank
3. Reading from B- post to engine block when trying to crank
1. Batt voltage when trying to crank
2. Reading from B+ post to starter large terminal when trying to crank
3. Reading from B- post to engine block when trying to crank
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Starters will click when there is increased resistance in the safety circuit. This is a known fact. JD even made a kit with an interposing relay as a fix for this issue.
Just replying because with the question marks I was not sure if you were asking a question, or making a statement...
I think the click is because the low voltage supplied to the starter solenoid is enough to move the solenoid armature against whatever it pushes on, but the low voltage cannot produce the force needed to make the starter mechanics move.
Just replying because with the question marks I was not sure if you were asking a question, or making a statement...
[/QUOTE]
Wasn't asking a question. Was just saying /thinking that as long as a safety isn't activated then there's no way that your getting power to the spade terminal from the starter switch. Or at least this is what I believe how it works , but then again I could be wrong , won't be the first time. LOL
[/QUOTE]
Wasn't asking a question. Was just saying /thinking that as long as a safety isn't activated then there's no way that your getting power to the spade terminal from the starter switch. Or at least this is what I believe how it works , but then again I could be wrong , won't be the first time. LOL
Because you said that it worked a dozen times after having it rebuilt , plus a new starter and same issues . Have you ever considered the key switch. You should maybe test that . Check to make sure power is at the spade terminal when you turn the key to start position and keeps power for as long as you hold the key to start. { you can use a simple test light } Just something for you to try ,this way you can rule out key switch.
GreensvilleJay
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Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Key switches FAIL, usually 'partially', 'randomly'....
What we don't know is how old the tractor is, how many hours,where stored and what additions have been made ? ALL factors in how many 'cycles' a switch will last.
SIMPLE test... jumper the +12 in on the ign sw to the 'start' terminal.
if tractor has a lot of hours, or old(+10), outside ?? ,replace the switch
What we don't know is how old the tractor is, how many hours,where stored and what additions have been made ? ALL factors in how many 'cycles' a switch will last.
SIMPLE test... jumper the +12 in on the ign sw to the 'start' terminal.
if tractor has a lot of hours, or old(+10), outside ?? ,replace the switch
Update, it was corrosion inside the positive cable to starter. Replaced with new cable and everything works property now. Thanks for the insight everyone.
fried1765
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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.