Ripped Off

[BAP]

Unfortunately, you are so adamant that you are right about your pump and want everyone to make you feel good by reassuring you that you are right, you have ignored advice from 2 well seasoned Kubota mechanics about your problems. You are acting as though you really don’t want help, but just want people to say that you are right. You made a mistake taking it to a guy who didn’t know what the h*** he was doing, and just threw on some junk parts. Then you took it to the Kubota dealership to find out the problem but we’re too cheap to let them finish the job and took it home to do it yourself only to have to take it back to them. Now, you don’t want to answer any questions that people are asking so they can try to help you. So what exactly are you hoping to get for help from here?

 

[RHR]

Unfortunately, you are so adamant that you are right about your pump and want everyone to make you feel good by reassuring you that you are right, you have ignored advice from 2 well seasoned Kubota mechanics about your problems. You are acting as though you really don’t want help, but just want people to say that you are right. You made a mistake taking it to a guy who didn’t know what the h*** he was doing, and just threw on some junk parts. Then you took it to the Kubota dealership to find out the problem but we’re too cheap to let them finish the job and took it home to do it yourself only to have to take it back to them. Now, you don’t want to answer any questions that people are asking so they can try to help you. So what exactly are you hoping to get for help from here?

You are right about the guy that worked on my tractor. He is a Jakeleg. But please clarify your intent here.
What question did I not answer? What advice did I ignore? Are you sure you have read all the post and replies? I only asked one question about a supply pump. I felt like the guy had ripped me off as I did not know what the different pump number stood for. I thought he had put a used pump on my tractor.
I did not ask any other questions. What junk parts are you referring to? (A rebuilt pump?). I'm knew to this forum and thought it was about people working on their own tractors. Maybe I was wrong. The absolute only reason I would take my tractor to a dealer is for the diagnostic software. One more time. (I did not ask any other questions. I was asked a lot of questions that was unrelated to my original question.) If this forum is not about working on your own tractor, then have me kicked off.
You must be a Kubota Dealer Mechanic.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You are right about the guy that worked on my tractor. He is a Jakeleg. But please clarify your intent here.
What question did I not answer? What advice did I ignore? Are you sure you have read all the post and replies? I only asked one question about a supply pump. I felt like the guy had ripped me off as I did not know what the different pump number stood for. I thought he had put a used pump on my tractor.
I did not ask any other questions. What junk parts are you referring to? (A rebuilt pump?). I'm knew to this forum and thought it was about people working on their own tractors. Maybe I was wrong. The absolute only reason I would take my tractor to a dealer is for the diagnostic software. One more time. (I did not ask any other questions. I was asked a lot of questions that was unrelated to my original question.) If this forum is not about working on your own tractor, then have me kicked off.
You must be a Kubota Dealer Mechanic.

Enough with the insults, accusations and demands for people to only give you " relevant answers".
Everyone on here likes to help, and yes there are several competent mechanics on here that have given you great advice.
When people note observations from your pictures and comments, you should also take note and move on.
Your verbiage is confusing quite a few of us, me included.

Here is my take on your situation.
Replace the parts that were replaced back to the original parts, minus the sealer.
If water was run through the system at all then the injectors are shot and yes possibly the high pressure pump too.

Good luck getting it back up and running like it should.

 

[lugbolt]

didn't see anyone talk much about injectors

they have high pressure going to them, or it could be high pressure or it could be "low" depends on what the ecu wants

inside the injector is sort of a relief. If rail pressure commanded it 30,000 psi and the injector "relief" is stuck open, it won't build 30,000 psi and bypasses fuel, and you get a low rail pressure code. Very common on Duramax engines, and I did quite a few kubota's too when I did tech work-mostly on the L01's but occasionally an M.

if rail pressure was ever really high for whatever reason the rail pressure sensor gets damaged. Replace the rail is the only way to fix this. If the rail pressure sensor is damaged it will show erratic pressure readings, or sometimes no reading at all or sometimes it'll just show high all the time. A failed rail pressure sensor can also damage the supply pump assembly and sometimes the scv. many techs have replaced the pump when they get a low pressure situation but ignored the injectors and RPS, and even more common is the ignorance of the rest of the system. If the system was full of water, the liklihood of damaged injectors, RPS, SCV, lines, pipes, supply pump, and possibly other stuff is high. Water in these common rail engines gets very very expensive, quickly. I would be surprised if a fuel rail assembly, injectors, supply pump (just those 3 parts) don't add up to around $5000.

if injectors are suspect pull them out and send them off for testing. even if not suspect, if there's been water in the system, pull em and send em out anyway. As said make note of which injector came out of which cylinder so they can go back in. If they have to be replaced, the software and hardware is required in order for the engine to run. properly. Dealer only. the injectors have a number on them that must be programmed into the ecu

and on the part number arguement, yeah that last digit is almost always a supercession. It may be that Kubota's supplier has changed it, but they haven't updated kpad yet and thus the dealer knows nothing about it. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen it. Parts guys no matter what dealer they're at, don't know everything, no matter how good you (or they) think they are. BTDT. And I might be wrong. I ain't perfect either.

 

[Daren Todd]

didn't see anyone talk much about injectors

they have high pressure going to them, or it could be high pressure or it could be "low" depends on what the ecu wants

inside the injector is sort of a relief. If rail pressure commanded it 30,000 psi and the injector "relief" is stuck open, it won't build 30,000 psi and bypasses fuel, and you get a low rail pressure code. Very common on Duramax engines, and I did quite a few kubota's too when I did tech work-mostly on the L01's but occasionally an M.

if rail pressure was ever really high for whatever reason the rail pressure sensor gets damaged. Replace the rail is the only way to fix this. If the rail pressure sensor is damaged it will show erratic pressure readings, or sometimes no reading at all or sometimes it'll just show high all the time. A failed rail pressure sensor can also damage the supply pump assembly and sometimes the scv. many techs have replaced the pump when they get a low pressure situation but ignored the injectors and RPS, and even more common is the ignorance of the rest of the system. If the system was full of water, the liklihood of damaged injectors, RPS, SCV, lines, pipes, supply pump, and possibly other stuff is high. Water in these common rail engines gets very very expensive, quickly. I would be surprised if a fuel rail assembly, injectors, supply pump (just those 3 parts) don't add up to around $5000.

if injectors are suspect pull them out and send them off for testing. even if not suspect, if there's been water in the system, pull em and send em out anyway. As said make note of which injector came out of which cylinder so they can go back in. If they have to be replaced, the software and hardware is required in order for the engine to run. properly. Dealer only. the injectors have a number on them that must be programmed into the ecu

and on the part number arguement, yeah that last digit is almost always a supercession. It may be that Kubota's supplier has changed it, but they haven't updated kpad yet and thus the dealer knows nothing about it. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen it. Parts guys no matter what dealer they're at, don't know everything, no matter how good you (or they) think they are. BTDT. And I might be wrong. I ain't perfect either.

I'm surprised Kubota didn't put a pop off valve in the system to protect the common rail.

Got a tier 3 deere 6068 engine in the shop that I just had to order a new suction control valve and pop off valve for.

Throttle was really erratic and throwing codes for the suction control valve.

Valve was sticking then dropping out causing pop off to dump the fuel.

 

[whitetiger]

'm surprised Kubota didn't put a pop off valve in the system to protect the common rail.

It is a Bosch fuel system, so it was not built by Kubota, and it has a pressure relief on the common rail.

 

[RHR]

I'm surprised Kubota didn't put a pop off valve in the system to protect the common rail.

Got a tier 3 deere 6068 engine in the shop that I just had to order a new suction control valve and pop off valve for.

Throttle was really erratic and throwing codes for the suction control valve.

Valve was sticking then dropping out causing pop off to dump the fuel.

didn't see anyone talk much about injectors

they have high pressure going to them, or it could be high pressure or it could be "low" depends on what the ecu wants

inside the injector is sort of a relief. If rail pressure commanded it 30,000 psi and the injector "relief" is stuck open, it won't build 30,000 psi and bypasses fuel, and you get a low rail pressure code. Very common on Duramax engines, and I did quite a few kubota's too when I did tech work-mostly on the L01's but occasionally an M.

if rail pressure was ever really high for whatever reason the rail pressure sensor gets damaged. Replace the rail is the only way to fix this. If the rail pressure sensor is damaged it will show erratic pressure readings, or sometimes no reading at all or sometimes it'll just show high all the time. A failed rail pressure sensor can also damage the supply pump assembly and sometimes the scv. many techs have replaced the pump when they get a low pressure situation but ignored the injectors and RPS, and even more common is the ignorance of the rest of the system. If the system was full of water, the liklihood of damaged injectors, RPS, SCV, lines, pipes, supply pump, and possibly other stuff is high. Water in these common rail engines gets very very expensive, quickly. I would be surprised if a fuel rail assembly, injectors, supply pump (just those 3 parts) don't add up to around $5000.

if injectors are suspect pull them out and send them off for testing. even if not suspect, if there's been water in the system, pull em and send em out anyway. As said make note of which injector came out of which cylinder so they can go back in. If they have to be replaced, the software and hardware is required in order for the engine to run. properly. Dealer only. the injectors have a number on them that must be programmed into the ecu

and on the part number arguement, yeah that last digit is almost always a supercession. It may be that Kubota's supplier has changed it, but they haven't updated kpad yet and thus the dealer knows nothing about it. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen it. Parts guys no matter what dealer they're at, don't know everything, no matter how good you (or they) think they are. BTDT. And I might be wrong. I ain't perfect either.

I'm surprised Kubota didn't put a pop off valve in the system to protect the common rail.

Got a tier 3 deere 6068 engine in the shop that I just had to order a new suction control valve and pop off valve for.

Throttle was really erratic and throwing codes for the suction control valve.

Valve was sticking then dropping out causing pop off to dump the fuel.

Lugbolt
I am looking at the injectors now as I installed a guage directly on the supply pump and it went to 6000psi very quick. I took one injector completely apart today. It had rust in it and 3 holes stopped up on the nozzle. I will be disassembling the other 3 tomorrow and cleaning them. I hope this fixes it.
Thanks for your advise.

 

[Joisey]

Lugbolt
I am looking at the injectors now as I installed a guage directly on the supply pump and it went to 6000psi very quick. I took one injector completely apart today. It had rust in it and 3 holes stopped up on the nozzle. I will be disassembling the other 3 tomorrow and cleaning them. I hope this fixes it.
Thanks for your advise.

Early on in your post you stated " There's nothing wrong with the fuel rail as the tractor has all the power it has always had. Now i am looking at possible leaking injectors"

If one injector has 3 holes plugged with rust or whatever, the engine could not have been running very well. Also, injectors are disassembled, cleaned and reset in a clean room, akin to a hospital operating room. You'll likely do more damage than good by "cleaning" them yourself.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Ok, humour me guys,..
just HOW does RUST form in an injector ? Is the rust actually inside the passages or on the outside ?

 

[GeoHorn]

Ok, humour me guys,..
just HOW does RUST form in an injector ? Is the rust actually inside the passages or on the outside ?

I don’t know if this is the situation in THIS case… but biological-growth can resemble rust as brown or orange “smudges” or particles… (although it is not usually hard particles.)
Any biological sludge or matting is evidence that water has been present at some point.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Ok, follow up...
WHY doesn't this 'rust' or 'foreign stuff' get burnt off or blown away when the engine's running ?
Hmm.. just thought, was this engine sitting for a year or two ??

 

[Aprilsfool2021]

I know this is old but I’m curious to what ended up fixing this tractor, from my understanding of this system (which could be wrong) on the inlet of the high pressure pump it has a suction control valve that controls how much fuel goes in the high pressure pump. So without the ecm commanding that valve 72 psi from the transfer pump is dead on. And it could be a number of things that will shut the system down. I stopped reading when you said something about relearning the pump I’m highly doubtful of this I can’t see anything that would need to be relearned on the one I have. Does the instrument cluster not have any codes flashing? the only thing I see in diagmaster to relearn would be the injectors. I’ll be honest the common rail has so many things that can leave you in a bind when they fail, I like the old mechanical style so much better, they stuck it to the man when they made the diagnostic software proprietary. You can’t fix any engine problems without it and if you mess around and get a hard fault code you can’t clear it out without taking it back to the dealer. But to be fair if it wasnt for mandates it would be the same way with the car you drive. The only thing about common rail that is better (in my opinion) is you don’t have worry about smelling diesel smoke. I don’t know much just a little chihuahua in a bull dawgs world.

 

[DustyRusty]

I am wondering why you are trolling the forums looking for the dead posts to bring back to the forefront, What useful purpose do you accomplish by doing this? Nothing worse than trying to wake the dead, rather than let them lie in peace! Don't you have anything better to do with your time than to waste ours when we have to read dead the posts?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I'm curious too, and I just Googled '1j8015051' and the ONLY hit for that part number was this thread !
I would have thought some 'link to Kubota or Bosch would have shown up,or perhaps a 'cross reference' chart ?

Oh well...

 

[NCL4701]

I missed it the first time through so if it hadn’t been revived I would have missed it entirely. After reading the whole thing, would have preferred it been left to rest in peace.

 

[whitetiger]

you said something about relearning the pump I’m highly doubtful of this I can’t see anything that would need to be relearned on the one I have.

When the high-pressure fuel pump or the ECU is changed, a relearn for the SCV MUST be performed whether you believe it or not.

 

[D2Cat]

I know this is old but I’m curious to what ended up fixing this tractor, from my understanding of this system (which could be wrong) on the inlet of the high pressure pump it has a suction control valve that controls how much fuel goes in the high pressure pump. So without the ecm commanding that valve 72 psi from the transfer pump is dead on. And it could be a number of things that will shut the system down. I stopped reading when you said something about relearning the pump I’m highly doubtful of this I can’t see anything that would need to be relearned on the one I have. Does the instrument cluster not have any codes flashing? the only thing I see in diagmaster to relearn would be the injectors. I’ll be honest the common rail has so many things that can leave you in a bind when they fail, I like the old mechanical style so much better, they stuck it to the man when they made the diagnostic software proprietary. You can’t fix any engine problems without it and if you mess around and get a hard fault code you can’t clear it out without taking it back to the dealer. But to be fair if it wasnt for mandates it would be the same way with the car you drive. The only thing about common rail that is better (in my opinion) is you don’t have worry about smelling diesel smoke. I don’t know much just a little chihuahua in a bull dawgs world.

If you really expect much of an answer learn how to use paragraphs to separate your thoughts. I'm not interested in trying to sort out your thoughts.

 

[RHR]

I know this is old but I’m curious to what ended up fixing this tractor, from my understanding of this system (which could be wrong) on the inlet of the high pressure pump it has a suction control valve that controls how much fuel goes in the high pressure pump. So without the ecm commanding that valve 72 psi from the transfer pump is dead on. And it could be a number of things that will shut the system down. I stopped reading when you said something about relearning the pump I’m highly doubtful of this I can’t see anything that would need to be relearned on the one I have. Does the instrument cluster not have any codes flashing? the only thing I see in diagmaster to relearn would be the injectors. I’ll be honest the common rail has so many things that can leave you in a bind when they fail, I like the old mechanical style so much better, they stuck it to the man when they made the diagnostic software proprietary. You can’t fix any engine problems without it and if you mess around and get a hard fault code you can’t clear it out without taking it back to the dealer. But to be fair if it wasnt for mandates it would be the same way with the car you drive. The only thing about common rail that is better (in my opinion) is you don’t have worry about smelling diesel smoke. I don’t know much just a little chihuahua in a bull dawgs world.

I will answer this, although I have not been on this forum since this post and the negative treatment, I received from some of the mods.

I had the replace two of the injectors. Two of them were bleeding too much. I wasted a lot of time on the problem as I could not get an answer, that worked for me. I am happy to say that I found 4 new injectors for what one cost at the Kobota dealer. Whay not use China parts as all my Kobatas have China parts all over them. It has been running perfect since. Buy the way I still have the "bad common" rail on it.

 

[GrizBota]

I will answer this, although I have not been on this forum since this post and the negative treatment, I received from some of the mods.

I had the replace two of the injectors. Two of them were bleeding too much. I wasted a lot of time on the problem as I could not get an answer, that worked for me. I am happy to say that I found 4 new injectors for what one cost at the Kobota dealer. Whay not use China parts as all my Kobatas have China parts all over them. It has been running perfect since. Buy the way I still have the "bad common" rail on it.

Well I read the whole thing this go round. Was nice to hear what fixed the problem. Thanks for that follow up.

At this point I suppose this tread will be up for its annual resurrection summer of 2024. Just like Easter, except less rabbits.

 

[D2Cat]

When purchasing critical components, like injectors, and choose to not get them from a dealer a good option is someone like Oregon Fuel Injection. They offer quality service at a very fair price and you know what you're getting will work. No hoping involved.

https://oregonfuelinjection.com/