Ripped Off

[hagrid]

sounds like you are taking it at all ends.

Saw a couple of movies predicated on that phenomenon.

 

[RHR]

I asked a simple question about my supply pump. I did not get an answer.
But I sure got a lot of questions. Read the original question please. I did not want someone to critique
the blue gasket sealer or anything else. I found the answer myself.

 

[RHR]

A few questions that need clarification in the bold and underlined text:
1) when the dealer changed the part and got it running, was that the end of the issue, and then you asked them to remove the part that they installed and reinstalled the "defective" part?
2) You took the tractor home and changed the "defective" part with a new part. Where did this part come from?
3) Were you trying to save money by not having to pay them for the part and installing it yourself? None of this makes sense to me why you would do some of these things.
4) You say in the last underlined sentence, that the tractor now has all the power that it always has, but it has leaking injectors. How do you know this?

What does any of this have to do with my original question?
Is there a way to trace a supply pump that was an original factory install?

 

[RHR]

I assume you still have YOUR old one ??
hm, maybe '51' is the replacement to the '50'
how do you know it wasn't new ?
I sure don't like the BLUE DEATH RING !!! A sign it's NOT a proshop for sure !!!!!!

Why do you call this a death ring? There is no pressure hear and you should know that.
And yes I do have the old one. Part # 1j8015051

 

[RHR]

Could you clarify your situation please. Who installed the injection pump we see in the posted photo? You or a dealer?

Are you dealing with a Kubota dealer or just a tractor repair place?

The QR code on the pump scans to the following:

1J80150501173A456725

When you say the pump is definitely not a new one, I do not agree for the following reason.

Finding a QR code label on the pump which matches the numbers stamped into the pump body is not the sign of a used pump.

Is the machine we are discussing a MX5200 because I thought that model was a common rail system with electronically controlled injectors.

Looking forward to your answers to my questions.

Dave

Dave
I don't know if it ever got used, but it came off of a V2403 from the factory.
Then rebuilt. My old one ends in 1 with a slash just like the picture I posted.

 

[RHR]

Unfortunately now the dealer can blame the tractor mechanic and vise versa...never a good situation for the machine owner. Sorry you have to deal with it sounds like you are taking it at all ends.

Thanks for not asking unrelated question?

 

[RHR]

To clarify my problem to everyone that is trying to help me.
Originally a few months ago my tractor lost power. Then it started dying about 30 to 45 seconds after I cranked it. Thats when I took it to a local tractor shop. It would still crank and run for a few seconds. Enough to load and unload the tractor. Now I got a tractor that will not crank but runs perfect.
I am putting the original pump back on tomorrow. It went to a rebuild shop but was never took apart.
The mechanic assumed it was bad because there was water and rust inside the fuel filter and lines. They ordered a rebuilt pump, the one in the picture

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: death ring
the very,very sloppy application of a nonOEM product shows that the shop is NOT professional. Makes me wonder what else they did wrong. Maybe nothing BUT it should send up a lot of 'red flags'.

curious about the 'wont crank but runs perfect' info.
how do you start it if it 'wont crank' ? Do you mean that the starter will not turn over the engine ?

re: rust
It'd take a long time for rust to form in filters and lines, so was the tractor sitting for several months and not used ? Maybe rain got into the tank ?? Empty tank and LOTS of condensation ? I'd be removing and cleaning the tank ,install new filters, clean the lines before trying to run the engine again as ANY water is bad.

 

[RHR]

re: death ring
the very,very sloppy application of a nonOEM product shows that the shop is NOT professional. Makes me wonder what else they did wrong. Maybe nothing BUT it should send up a lot of 'red flags'.

curious about the 'wont crank but runs perfect' info.
how do you start it if it 'wont crank' ? Do you mean that the starter will not turn over the engine ?

re: rust
It'd take a long time for rust to form in filters and lines, so was the tractor sitting for several months and not used ? Maybe rain got into the tank ?? Empty tank and LOTS of condensation ? I'd be removing and cleaning the tank ,install new filters, clean the lines before trying to run the engine again as ANY water is bad.

Even the Kubota dealer could not start it
And everything was cleaned out. My tractor stays in my shop. It had to be bad diesel
If you don't know how to start a diesel I'm not gonna be the one to tell you. You might get hurt and I would not want that. It spends over pretty fast but will not start because of low pressure in the rail. Actually 0 psi With a gage on it. I guess now I will get a question about the gage that I installed in the high pressure system. And where I purchased it.

 

[RHR]

A few questions that need clarification in the bold and underlined text:
1) when the dealer changed the part and got it running, was that the end of the issue, and then you asked them to remove the part that they installed and reinstalled the "defective" part?
2) You took the tractor home and changed the "defective" part with a new part. Where did this part come from?
3) Were you trying to save money by not having to pay them for the part and installing it yourself? None of this makes sense to me why you would do some of these things.
4) You say in the last underlined sentence, that the tractor now has all the power that it always has, but it has leaking injectors. How do you know this?

I never said it had leaking injectors

 

[hagrid]

I guess now I will get a question about the gage that I installed in the high pressure system. And where I purchased it.

Also submit your blood type and your last 10 consecutive tax returns, plz.

 

[DustyRusty]

I never said it had leaking injectors

Trying to save money.
He claimed he had software for this tractor as I knew it was needed. Later on found out he did not have the right cable. He replaced the pump but could not get his software to learn the pump. Took it to dealer. They ran their software to learn the pump and clear all the codes. Found that the shop had replaced the rail pressure sensor with a cummings sensor. The dealer claims to have put the right one on and it cranked and run fine?? I took it back to my place and put a new sensor on and nothing changed. Took it back to the dealer and watched them play with it for an hour. Now it's the fuel rail. There's nothing wrong with the fuel rail as the tractor has all the power it has always had. Now i am looking at possible leaking injectors.

Your Honour, I believe that the witness has given perjured testimony. I move for a dismissal of all posts, with prejudice, and that the defendant be remanded to the local tractor dealership for a competency hearing. LOL

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: It spends over pretty fast but will not start because of low pressure in the rail

OK, .'crank over' to me means the starter IS spinning the engine over. I misread your post,thinking it had 2 problems..bad fuel AND engine NOT cranking over.

Sounds now like just 'fuel' problem. Have to ask, have you confirmed that fuel IS getting to the injector pump ? Usually with bad fuel, you need to totally clean everything from tank to the inj pump. If you have lots of fuel being pumped then it has to be the injpump.
I have zero knowledge about that pump but being told there was rust in the filters and lines, I'd expect the pump itself needs to be cleaned, purged of any rust that's inside of it. Maybe that is a DIY project ? or has to be done at a shop with special tools ?? wondering if the WSM says how to 'rebuild/repair' the pump or just says 'take to proshop'.

 

[RHR]

re: It spends over pretty fast but will not start because of low pressure in the rail

OK, .'crank over' to me means the starter IS spinning the engine over. I misread your post,thinking it had 2 problems..bad fuel AND engine NOT cranking over.

Sounds now like just 'fuel' problem. Have to ask, have you confirmed that fuel IS getting to the injector pump ? Usually with bad fuel, you need to totally clean everything from tank to the inj pump. If you have lots of fuel being pumped then it has to be the injpump.
I have zero knowledge about that pump but being told there was rust in the filters and lines, I'd expect the pump itself needs to be cleaned, purged of any rust that's inside of it. Maybe that is a DIY project ? or has to be done at a shop with special tools ?? wondering if the WSM says how to 'rebuild/repair' the pump or just says 'take to proshop'.

I have 72 psi at supply pump inlet. Continuous.
Everything was cleaned.
I had water in the diesel and though it was inside, it set up for a few weeks. I checked all four injectors for possible leak. Very little coming out the drain lines. None going to crankcase. I'm putting the original pump back on as some as get a gasket. It cranked (started) before so it should (start) again. At least I hope so.

 

[RHR]

Your Honour, I believe that the witness has given perjured testimony. I move for a dismissal of all posts, with prejudice, and that the defendant be remanded to the local tractor dealership for a competency hearing. LOL

Nobody had checked them. Neither the dealer are the non dealer shop. I decided to check them yesterday, and found very little fuel coming from the drain lines. Putting the old pump back on.

 

[Henro]

I have 72 psi at supply pump inlet. Continuous.
Everything was cleaned.
I had water in the diesel and though it was inside, it set up for a few weeks. I checked all four injectors for possible leak. Very little coming out the drain lines. None going to crankcase. Im putting the original pump back on as some as get a gasket. It cranked before so it should crank again. At least I hope so.

For moron's like me, could you please say what it means when you say the engine "cranks".

I did look back but still I am not sure what this means when you say it. For me an engine cranking means the starter is turning the flywheel, which turns the crankshaft and so on.

For example, "the engine cranks but does not start"...is something I might say...

I guess you use the word crank as I would use the word start or run. Is this correct?

Also, I think if I were asking a question, I would appreciate any observations that were offered, that might help identify an issue that I was not seeing myself. I would appreciate them and not get offended, unless they were completely off the wall.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

This 'thread' shows why 'long distance diagnosis' is really hard compared to being right there !
I've reread al 30+ posts and it sounds like..
...the engine DOES turn over AND that there's fresh fuel getting TO the injector pump, but NO fuel coming out the injectors or the return line.

if so, then either 'something' isn't operating the pump OR the internal 'plumbing' in the pump is plugged.

My 'gut' is telling me that fuel going into the pump should be coming out the return line whenever it's not going out the injectors ?

OK.. looked online for a 'parts diagram',found 2, silly question but....there appears to be some kind of ' electrical solenoid/plunger'. Part discription doesn't say what it is,but I think maybe the 'fuel shutoff' ?
if so, and it's closed due to rusty water, then NO fuel would be getting into the pump.

I'm familiar with gas engines having a similar device( 'anti dieseling valve' and it shuts off the gas to the carb. Very common to fail when water is in the gas and not run for a long time.

 

[RHR]

re: It spends over pretty fast but will not start because of low pressure in the rail

OK, .'crank over' to me means the starter IS spinning the engine over. I misread your post,thinking it had 2 problems..bad fuel AND engine NOT cranking over.

Sounds now like just 'fuel' problem. Have to ask, have you confirmed that fuel IS getting to the injector pump ? Usually with bad fuel, you need to totally clean everything from tank to the inj pump. If you have lots of fuel being pumped then it has to be the injpump.
I have zero knowledge about that pump but being told there was rust in the filters and lines, I'd expect the pump itself needs to be cleaned, purged of any rust that's inside of it. Maybe that is a DIY project ? or has to be done at a shop with special tools ?? wondering if the WSM says how to 'rebuild/repair' the pump or just says 'take to proshop'.

The WSM does not tell you anything about purging the pump. Thats pretty easy. I put my original pump on today and purged it. Tomorrow I'm connecting the tube to the common rail and hoping it will start. It appears it is pumping. Shoots out about a foot.

 

[RHR]

For moron's like me, could you please say what it means when you say the engine "cranks".

I did look back but still I am not sure what this means when you say it. For me an engine cranking means the starter is turning the flywheel, which turns the crankshaft and so on.

For example, "the engine cranks but does not start"...is something I might say...

I guess you use the word crank as I would use the word start or run. Is this correct?

Also, I think if I were asking a question, I would appreciate any observations that were offered, that might help identify an issue that I was not seeing myself. I would appreciate them and not get offended, unless they were completely off the wall.

Sorry for my East Texas slang. When I say cranked it is the same as running. I use turning over if it is trying to start.

 

[RHR]

This 'thread' shows why 'long distance diagnosis' is really hard compared to being right there !
I've reread al 30+ posts and it sounds like..
...the engine DOES turn over AND that there's fresh fuel getting TO the injector pump, but NO fuel coming out the injectors or the return line.

if so, then either 'something' isn't operating the pump OR the internal 'plumbing' in the pump is plugged.

My 'gut' is telling me that fuel going into the pump should be coming out the return line whenever it's not going out the injectors ?

OK.. looked online for a 'parts diagram',found 2, silly question but....there appears to be some kind of ' electrical solenoid/plunger'. Part discription doesn't say what it is,but I think maybe the 'fuel shutoff' ?
if so, and it's closed due to rusty water, then NO fuel would be getting into the pump.

I'm familiar with gas engines having a similar device( 'anti dieseling valve' and it shuts off the gas to the carb. Very common to fail when water is in the gas and not run for a long time.

There is fuel going through the pump and back to the tank. It has a suction control valve on the supply pump.
(From the WSM)
The SCV has a function of delivering to the
pressurizing part
The SCV is a proportional control valve that adjusts the
amount of fuel delivered from the fuel pump to achieve
the fuel pressure requested by the engine.
The SCV is a linear solenoid type electromagnetic
valve and the engine ECU controls the time the
solenoid is electrified (duty ratio control).
When current flows through the solenoid, the armature
moves based on the duty ratio and pushes on the
cylinder and fuel flow changes based on position of the
cylinder enabling suitable fuel flow.
This SCV could have been the problem with the rebuilt pump the mechanic said was bad.
All I know is it would not build up any pressure in the rail. My original pump is on it now and it appears it is pumping as I have the discharge tube off of it and its spurting fuel pretty good. I'll find out in the morning.