Mower deck running backwards

[Dave_eng]

It would have to be the input-shaft or output shaft gears… the side gears would not accomplish that.

I am the first one to admit my ability to visualize machinery in 3D is greatly lacking so please keep that in mind when deciding how much weight to give to these comments.

In the mower gear boxes like the one for the RC48 deck, there are only two gears. This differs from 3 pt hitch style snow blowers where there are two outputs from the gear box. One output for the fan and a second for the auger. These two outputs are at 90 degrees from each other and these gear boxes must incorporate more internal gears than a mower deck gear box.

When the issue of reversing rotation first came up many years ago, I had trouble picturing the internal workings in my mind.

I bought educational model parts so I could easily play with the possible variations on my desk instead of fighting with oily. greasy parts.

These are my simple models showing how the relocation of one gear reverses the output shaft rotation.

I realize the relocation of an internal gear will not be as simple as in a model. Machining may be needed. My point if to provide a possible soultion if nothing else works.

I have in my files this company who is/was making pto reversers in the USA.
pto reverser

Dave

 

[BruceP]

I am the first one to admit my ability to visualize machinery in 3D is greatly lacking so please keep that in mind when deciding how much weight to give to these comments.

I always wonderd why others could not 'see' complex mechanical systems as I did. In high-school, all the students were tested and I ended up in the upper 90% of Nation in "Mechanical Aptitude"... perhaps that is why I went on to be a Electrical-Mechanical Engineer.

---------------------
Actually EITHER gear could be moved to achieve a reversal.

Since it is not working now... there is no risk to removing the gearbox and tearing into it. Most manufacturers make ONE gearcase which can turn either direction based on assembly. Beware that careful attention to clearances, endplay, and gear-clash should be checked if ANY gearbox is torn apart.

 

[ruger1980]

The RC48-62A front PTO kit

The gear box the same mower. It does not appear to be any way you could move the gear without fabricating your own output shaft and even if you did you may not have the room inside the gearbox to accommodate the change.

 

[ruger1980]

Actually the gear box on most 3pt snow blowers use 2 bevel gears just like a mower or cutter does. The fan is driven by the input/through shaft which runs straight through the gear box. The auger drive would come out the side as a stub shaft wit the driven bevel gear on the end of it.
My old Farm King blower actually has open gears instead of a gearbox and you can see the configuration easily.

I am the first one to admit my ability to visualize machinery in 3D is greatly lacking so please keep that in mind when deciding how much weight to give to these comments.

In the mower gear boxes like the one for the RC48 deck, there are only two gears. This differs from 3 pt hitch style snow blowers where there are two outputs from the gear box. One output for the fan and a second for the auger. These two outputs are at 90 degrees from each other and these gear boxes must incorporate more internal gears than a mower deck gear box.

When the issue of reversing rotation first came up many years ago, I had trouble picturing the internal workings in my mind.

I bought educational model parts so I could easily play with the possible variations on my desk instead of fighting with oily. greasy parts.

These are my simple models showing how the relocation of one gear reverses the output shaft rotation.

View attachment 71583

View attachment 71584


I realize the relocation of an internal gear will not be as simple as in a model. Machining may be needed. My point if to provide a possible soultion if nothing else works.

I have in my files this company who is/was making pto reversers in the USA.
pto reverser

Dave

 

[PoTreeBoy]

The RC48-62A front PTO kit
View attachment 71586

The gear box the same mower. It does not appear to be any way you could move the gear without fabricating your own output shaft and even if you did you may not have the room inside the gearbox to accommodate the change.
View attachment 71587

Actually, I don't think the diagram rules out the possibility (although it's not clear, for sure).
If the output gear can be flipped over and installed above the input gear by re-arranging some spacers, it might work.
If the same basic mower was made with front- and rear-facing input shafts, it would seem plausible that a convertible gearbox might be used. The fly in the ointment would be that the input RPMs have to be the same so the gear ratio is the same.

 

[twomany]

I've got a gearbox off a mower deck that was fitted to my B7200.

Might help the OP. I sent a message.

 

[rustythread]

Friends, I really appreciate the replies and the parts diagrams. When I get any progress, I'll post further.

 

[Dave_eng]

I came across this material in a COMER INDUSTRIES catalogue.
With some of their gearboxes, the design allows either top or bottom to be the lower side. In this way they have a box with a reverse rotation but only have to carry one model to provide two models.
P

Picture the output shaft pointing down not sideways as in this catalogue. The result is the same.

Dave

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I'd thought about flipping the gearbox upside down, but then the picture was posted, and it appears the blade end has a bigger bearing(21) than the 'top' end bearing(20), so can't flip it upside down. It's also unlikely the splines on the shaft(18) go above the center of the input shaft. If THAT was the case, placing output gear on top , would reverse the direction. Makes me wonder IF that deck was made for that tractor ?

 

[rustythread]

Thanks, everybody.
I don't see on the RC48-62A gearbox any way that I can flip/turn it to reverse the rotation and use as is. I am contemp;ating the possibility of re-routing the belt so it is driven in the other direction by the drive pulley at the bottom of the gearbox. Current problems in that approach:
1. I need to remove the center blade spindle pulley to get at the bracket on the side of the gearbox (needs to be modified for belt clearance): there's a 22mm nut on top, and I can't jam the pulley tight enough to break that nut loose.
2, The belt re-routing I am currently looking at would leave the flat side of the belt being driven by the V-groove on the drive pulley--not an ideal power transmission. Any suggestions for a flat-groove pulley to substitute for the drive pulley, and things to watch out for while changing it over? Or, could I take a short section of a v-belt and glue it in place in the pulley groove, leaving the flat side of that piece to match the flat side of the mower belt??

Note: I never have been a mechanic, and am learning as I go; I appreciate your patience with really basic questions. Obviously, if I had'nt been ifgnorant of the protential problems, I'd still be looking for a mower deck insead of buying this headache.

I am also blessed with only 5% of my previously -normal vision and have no depth perception, so I am doing a lot of as much by feel as by looking: hence, some of the dumbass questions.

Thanks again.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Thanks, everybody.
I don't see on the RC48-62A gearbox any way that I can flip/turn it to reverse the rotation and use as is. I am contemp;ating the possibility of re-routing the belt so it is driven in the other direction by the drive pulley at the bottom of the gearbox. Current problems in that approach:
1. I need to remove the center blade spindle pulley to get at the bracket on the side of the gearbox (needs to be modified for belt clearance): there's a 22mm nut on top, and I can't jam the pulley tight enough to break that nut loose.
2, The belt re-routing I am currently looking at would leave the flat side of the belt being driven by the V-groove on the drive pulley--not an ideal power transmission. Any suggestions for a flat-groove pulley to substitute for the drive pulley, and things to watch out for while changing it over? Or, could I take a short section of a v-belt and glue it in place in the pulley groove, leaving the flat side of that piece to match the flat side of the mower belt??

Note: I never have been a mechanic, and am learning as I go; I appreciate your patience with really basic questions. Obviously, if I had'nt been ifgnorant of the protential problems, I'd still be looking for a mower deck insead of buying this headache.

I am also blessed with only 5% of my previously -normal vision and have no depth perception, so I am doing a lot of as much by feel as by looking: hence, some of the dumbass questions.

Thanks again.

Your RC48-62A has clockwise input. There is/was a RC48-62H designed for counter-clockwise input. It seems to be similar, except the driven gear is on top instead of bottom.

It has a different shaft but the same gears, so I was optimistic that you could just install that shaft in you gearbox. Alas, the bearings and gear housing part numbers are different, so they probably don't interchange. Unless you have a dealer/source where you could physically compare the parts, I don't know how to figure it out for sure.

A RC48-62H gearbox would probably fit your deck, but a new one is about $800. I don't have any idea on the availability of a used one.

I'm afraid your idea to reverse the belt is doomed. Driving the flat back side of a belt would only give you a fraction of the drive horsepower of the vee side. I have seen pictures (but never hands on) of double-sided v-belts made to drive off both sides. But I suspect they have stricter reverse bending allowances, and they may be fractional hp only.

Sorry I don't have better suggestions. Good luck.

 

[BruceP]

Just came across this on FaceBook... the photos show a number of Kubota mowdecks for sale. (several have gearboxes)

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[GeoHorn]

If you have trouble holding the pulley to remove a nut….Use an Impact Wrench.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

It might be worth the time and effort to get the parts info for both the gearbox you have and the 'h' version PTB refers to. Maybe you just need to buy a new output shaft ? as I assume the gearboxes,bearings and seals might physically be the same ??

 

[PoTreeBoy]

It might be worth the time and effort to get the parts info for both the gearbox you have and the 'h' version PTB refers to. Maybe you just need to buy a new output shaft ? as I assume the gearboxes,bearings and seals might physically be the same ??

The housing and output bearings have different part numbers. So, unless OP can physically get his hands on them to compare, I don't know what to advise. I didn't compare the input shafts and bearings.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

bummer.. I was thinking VW principle, 'reuse' most of in stock parts to make 2-3 different things.
I suppose the housing he needs is taller, as gear is on top of the input shaft ? Too bad it's not the same hosuing and guts, just 'configured' differently for CW vs CCW operation.
sigh...seems nothing is easy these dayze....

 

[Henro]

So at this point, is it fair to assume that either the deck the OP has was actually made for a different tractor, or that someone before he purchased it put the wrong gear box on it when attempting to replace a failed gearbox?

I know the answer does not help the OP resolve the issue, but just wonder if there are other possibilities that I am missing.

 

[rustythread]

At the time I bought the RC48-62A deck, the seller told me it had previously been on a tractor with a front PTO. I was ignorant of the potential gearbox problem.
I checked today, and the gearbox from my previous (now self-destructed) RC54-71B has the input and output shafts running in opposite directions, while on this RC48-62A both run in the same direction. Apparently the mid-PTO runs CCW. If I were feeling daresome, I guess I could disassemble both and see if the necessary parts would interchange, but I strongly suspect I'd just wind up with two piles of parts and no gearbox. The center spindles are not interchangeable; e.g., the RC54 output is also the center blade spindle, while the RC48 output has a pulley next to the blade spindle pulley. Ergo, the '54 spindle is about 6" longer than the '48.
I've abandoned the rerouting-the -belt plan--pretty sure it wouldn't work without a lot of custom parts.

Whatthehell. Happy Christmas, all!