Leaking FEL cylinders - clean or replace seals?

timsch

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Jun 11, 2018
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The FEL cylinders for my L275DT are seeping too much for me to ignore any longer. The sealing surface of the rods/pistons are undamaged, so I'm assuming that it was just dirt buildup over time that has worked into the seals. I've not taken anything apart to verify that the seals aren't damaged or cracked from old age, however. I have no idea how old the seals are.

What are the odds that they just need a disassembly and cleaning vs replacing the seals?
 

lynnmor

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What are the odds that they just need a disassembly and cleaning vs replacing the seals?
My opinion is that the odds are about zero. If the underwear needs changed, don't just flip them over.
 
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Bmyers

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My guess, I am not a mechanical expert by a long shot, is that the seals will need to be replaced. Although rebuild kits aren't that outrageous (at least not for the MF383 that we are currently doing(we decided to take it to the local shop and they are redoing both for just over $100's each)). Considering the tractor and loader was most likely built in the 80s, it is probably due for a rebuild.
 
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PoTreeBoy

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The FEL cylinders for my L275DT are seeping too much for me to ignore any longer. The sealing surface of the rods/pistons are undamaged, so I'm assuming that it was just dirt buildup over time that has worked into the seals. I've not taken anything apart to verify that the seals aren't damaged or cracked from old age, however. I have no idea how old the seals are.

What are the odds that they just need a disassembly and cleaning vs replacing the seals?
What's your time worth? You have to disassemble the cylinder to get to the rod seals. My experience has been that the wiper seal hardens with age and then let's dirt in. So the wiper has to be replaced.

Then to clean the rod seal, it needs to be removed. I've not found a way to do that without damaging the old seal, so it would have to be replaced.

These are wear parts. They are sacrificial to the more expensive rod and cylinder. And they are sold by Kubota in sets, not individually, so it doesn't make sense to do a partial replacement. You might find suitable components from non-Kubota sources so you could replace only selected seals. But if you don't replace the piston seals while you're in there, they're likely to start leaking and then you get to disassemble the cylinder again.

Also, all the cylinders I've worked on had piston rider rings, and some have rod rider rings. These serve as bearings to keep the moving parts centered in the bores, preventing metal-to-metal contact and prolonging seal life. So if you keep worn rider rings, at least shortened seal life can occur and, worse, cylinder, rod, rod cap and piston wear caused by rubbing can take place.

All in all, it's prudent to replace everything while the cylinder is disassembled.
 
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TheOldHokie

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The FEL cylinders for my L275DT are seeping too much for me to ignore any longer. The sealing surface of the rods/pistons are undamaged, so I'm assuming that it was just dirt buildup over time that has worked into the seals. I've not taken anything apart to verify that the seals aren't damaged or cracked from old age, however. I have no idea how old the seals are.

What are the odds that they just need a disassembly and cleaning vs replacing the seals?
Odds are zero.

Dan
 
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GeoHorn

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The parts are not the expensive part of the repair….and doing it twice if re-used seals don’t fix the problem will frustrate your pocketbook and emotional well-being. Not the time to play cheapskate.
Enjoy the satisfaction you’ll have of doing it “right”.

PoTree and Dan and others: The video commonly seen on this repair shows the repairman using pipe-wrenches to remove the end-nut for disassembly. Is that truly the most-common method….or do anyone own pin-spanners/wrenches anymore…??
 
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Henro

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The FEL cylinders for my L275DT are seeping too much for me to ignore any longer. The sealing surface of the rods/pistons are undamaged, so I'm assuming that it was just dirt buildup over time that has worked into the seals. I've not taken anything apart to verify that the seals aren't damaged or cracked from old age, however. I have no idea how old the seals are.

What are the odds that they just need a disassembly and cleaning vs replacing the seals?
Agree with the others. Odds are zero.

But I will say that I had a similar problem, but mine started leaking in a stream and not seepage. Checked prices from Kubota for the seal kit, and got a price to have a local hydraulic shop do the rebuild, supplying the seals themselves. Price difference was about $40 per cylinder.

Decided that in my case it made sense to have them do it. Been a year or two now...no issues. Probably a wise decision on my part. Your mileage may vary, but something to consider.
 
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rbargeron

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Replacing cylinder seals, wipers, rider rings, etc. is routine maintenance. I used to take my cylinders to a hydraulics service shop shop that did them while I went for coffee - but then I got the little tool set for installing them myself - simple and easy with seal kit from Kubota.
 

PoTreeBoy

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PoTree and Dan and others: The video commonly seen on this repair shows the repairman using pipe-wrenches to remove the end-nut for disassembly. Is that truly the most-common method….or do anyone own pin-spanners/wrenches anymore…??
I bought a face pin spanner to do my backhoe cylinders. It worked well - you have to get the right one to fit your hole size. I like the one somebody fabbed out of an adjustable wrench. You could accommodate different diameter pins, and replace the pins when they wear.

After doing the first one, I bought the 3-piece seal installation kit. It makes installing the rod seal less risky.

My loader cylinders have holes on the rim, so I used a pipe wrench. I think these also have different size holes, so if you want to use a spanner, you'd need the right size.

The other tools, shown in the Kubota WSM's, are expanders and sizers for the piston seals. You have to make these for each size cylinder and I've never used them.
 
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Henro

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I bought a face pin spanner to do my backhoe cylinders. It worked well - you have to get the right one to fit your hole size. I like the one somebody fabbed out of an adjustable wrench. You could accommodate different diameter pins, and replace the pins when they wear.

After doing the first one, I bought the 3-piece seal installation kit. It makes installing the rod seal less risky.

My loader cylinders have holes on the rim, so I used a pipe wrench. I think these also have different size holes, so if you want to use a spanner, you'd need the right size.

The other tools, shown in the Kubota WSM's, are expanders and sizers for the piston seals. You have to make these for each size cylinder and I've never used them.
I got the impression, but do not know really, that my particular cylinders have a large number of seals in them. If I ordered the replacement kits I would know for sure, but I did not. I might have looked at the parts list but do not remember.

Still...you always save by doing it yourself, at the expense of time. AND for me time seems to expand greatly when I do things myself.

As I mentioned, FOR ME, the price difference was so small that getting someone else to do the work who had experience and knowledge, and the necessary equipment, made sense.
 

Nicksacco

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I agree with all of the responses here having done cylinders myself.
Do you not have the tools to do the work or are you asking more from economics?
I did not need to remove all the cylinders I did from the tractor. That means the job of holding the cylinder is done for you by the tractor.
However you will need a stout vise (or something) to hold the rod while you loosen the piston nut with wrenches suggested by the other folks.
My favorite is NOT hydraulics as it's so messy, but at least you can minimize the mess with some preparation including draining the cylinders into a bucket (I keep old hoses for that reason).
Just some thoughts.
 

PoTreeBoy

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Nick,
I agree, loosen the gland nut while the cylinder is still on the tractor.

I found the best way to hold the rod is to slide the cylinder off the rod and loosen the piston nut with the rod attached to the tractor. Then you have the weight of the tractor holding it for you. Use wood blocks under the piston to avoid scratching anything. Those nuts are pretty tight.

I'm a messy mechanic, but even a neat freak will need plenty of oil-dri.
 
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Old_Paint

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My opinion is that the odds are about zero. If the underwear needs changed, don't just flip them over.
Why not? You wear out your underwear washing it too much. :ROFLMAO:
 

Old_Paint

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Gotta go with all the other opinions on this one, despite my smart-alecky remark above. Ain't much point in pulling that cylinder apart if you don't have every seal and ring to go in it. The kits are relatively cheap, and you're gonna make a big mess with the oil anyway. If you do one on the right, go ahead and do the same cylinder on the left, and consider all the other cylinders, too. At least think about it, whether leaking or not. All of the cylinders have seen identical working conditions. If one seal has failed, the others aren't too far behind.
 
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timsch

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'49 8N, L275DT
Jun 11, 2018
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Thanks for the opinions and pointers. Much appreciated. New all the way around it is.

I've not done this in particular before, but should be able to do it. I have a couple of pretty good vises. I'll have to check on the pin spanner. I'm pretty sure I don't have one for those sizes. Is this a decent one?
 
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jyoutz

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On my old JD tractor, I removed the cylinders and took them to a local hydraulic shop. They rebuilt them in 3 days for $200 plus the cost of the seals (about $25).
 

Magicman

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When you disassemble the cylinders and the seals crumble in your hands, you will be finding seal kits.
 
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Pau7220

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I don't have one for those sizes. Is this a decent one?
See post #4