Kubota Electric Tractor Survey

[GreensvilleJay]

There will never,ever be a shortage of gas or diesel..now you may not like the price they'll charge but seriously we HAVE to have oil and gas.
Quick, how many cargoships are 'battery powered' ?? Lookup the gallons of fuel it takes for ONE ship to make one, one way crossing. Just how BIG are those engines ! To get your stuff from China to North America, there are just 3 options... Plane, boat or rail(well to Spain...)
Once in North America, 3 options.. same ones, just a shorter distance.
There's no way in Hades, you can build recharge stations from coast to coast, boarder to boarder, economically and power them from wind and solar....it'll never happen.
Now IF goods were locally made, you can greatly reduce transportation costs,and if you build a network of midsized nuke power plants, then EV of some ,small scale is almost,maybe,kinda doable.
I remember EV milktrucks (early 1960s), trolleycars(70s).....all gone.
What gets my goat are the hypocrits that say we need EVs but THEY don't use them.....

 

[fried1765]

In my state, all coal fired power plants will be decommissioned within the next 5 years; all replaced by natural gas, wind and solar. All of these energy sources are abundant in my state.

Mexafornia....of course!

 

[jyoutz]

Mexafornia....of course!

Nope. New Mexico. We are the second largest producer of natural gas, so why use coal.? Coal is more expensive and dirtier than natural gas, and we have 300+ days of sunshine. Lots of windy days too. Dropping coal is a win-win: less pollution and cheaper energy bills.

 

[JimmyJazz]

I was in the market for a forklift a year or so ago and noticed an abundance of electric forklifts needing new batteries for sale. I suppose if you had a business you may not worry about having to buy a new $2,000 battery now and then but for a hillbilly like myself wanting one for occasional farm/shop use its out of the question. My "budget" was "as inexpensive as possible". A bought an old rough terrain Hyster needing repairs for $5,000. Fixed it myself. All except the power steering. The pump was broken and replacements are not available. I made a lot of calls to try and locate a rebuilt one with no luck. Any thoughts?

 

[BruceP]

There's no way in Hades, you can build recharge stations from coast to coast, boarder to boarder, economically and power them from wind and solar....it'll never happen.

Some mathamatics which supposes that EVERY INCH of landmass on the planet is covered by solar-panels reveals that we use more energy than we could EVER capture from sunlight. (recall that only about 30% of the planet gets full sun at any given instance)

 

[fried1765]

Nope. New Mexico. We are the second largest producer of natural gas, so why use coal.? Coal is more expensive and dirtier than natural gas, and we have 300+ days of sunshine. Lots of windy days too. Dropping coal is a win-win: less pollution and cheaper energy bills.

"Dropping coal is a win-win".

A rather myopic opinion!
NM climate is very different from much of the USA.
Not a valid comparison!
New Mexico population is .6 % of USA total!

 

[jyoutz]

"Dropping coal is a win-win".

A rather myopic opinion!
NM climate is very different from much of the USA.
Not a valid comparison!
New Mexico population is .6 % of USA total!

Natural gas is available in all states and cheaper than coal. Cheaper transportation (no trucks or trains), cheaper to operate the power plant, and no mountains of toxic waste to dispose of. NM population is irrelevant: in the southwest region, we supply a lot of power to the interstate grid. And the northern half of the state is a Rocky Mountain climate with cold winters.

 

[fried1765]

Natural gas is available in all states and cheaper than coal. Cheaper transportation (no trucks or trains), cheaper to operate the power plant, and no mountains of toxic waste to dispose of. NM population is irrelevant: in the southwest region, we supply a lot of power to the interstate grid. And the northern half of the state is a Rocky Mountain climate with cold winters.

I thought solar power was salvation for the US from NM.
Su

Natural gas is available in all states and cheaper than coal. Cheaper transportation (no trucks or trains), cheaper to operate the power plant, and no mountains of toxic waste to dispose of. NM population is irrelevant: in the southwest region, we supply a lot of power to the interstate grid. And the northern half of the state is a Rocky Mountain climate with cold winters.
[/QUOTE

The whopping 2.1 million population of NM does not need coal .....
Obviously, the elimination of coal should also be applied to the remaining 333 million USA population.

 

[Freeheeler]

So, in the future when everything is electric ... I guess when your power goes out from a storm or whatnot, you would just crank up your battery powered electric backup generator to produce electricity to run your house and recharge your electric generator batteries. Sounds like a well thought plan

 

[jyoutz]

So, in the future when everything is electric ... I guess when your power goes out from a storm or whatnot, you would just crank up your battery powered electric backup generator to produce electricity to run your house and recharge your electric generator batteries. Sounds like a well thought plan

I thought solar power was salvation for the US from NM.
Su

it’s all of the above, not one source, but there is no economic benefit to creating power from coal anymore, since it’s more expensive and dirtier than natural gas and renewables.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

If you look at the TRUE costs, solar is far more 'dirtier and expensive' than any fossil fuel.
It's in the 'details'....
one simple example..
cost to get electrons from natgas is constant 24/7,rain or shine,day or night....
cost for solar...increases dramatically on cloudy days and at night. To get power from solar after sunset, you need batteries, chargers, auto switches, etc. NOT cheap !!

 

[Freeheeler]

it’s all of the above, not one source, but there is no economic benefit to creating power from coal anymore, since it’s more expensive and dirtier than natural gas and renewables.

The point of my sarcasm is that an electric (battery powered) generator doesn't exist because using electricity to run a motor to turn a generator to produce electricity is a losing endeavor.

I agree with your point that coal is not as efficient or clean as natural gas, I have a propane honda generator/welder. Nuclear is the cleanest most cost effective power producer, but folks (and politicians) are scared of it. The old Breeder Reactor project they canned back in the 80's would still be out producing anything we have today. Until we have a clean, reliable source for electricity that can increase our current production rate by tenfold, I don't think increasing our EV use by tenfold is a good idea.

The other point I'd like to make is that this is a tractor forum. As far as tractors go mine should be running strong long after I've passed away. I see zero need for an electric tractor because I see zero need for replacing the one I've got.

 

[jyoutz]

The point of my sarcasm is that an electric (battery powered) generator doesn't exist because using electricity to run a motor to turn a generator to produce electricity is a losing endeavor.

I agree with your point that coal is not as efficient or clean as natural gas, I have a propane honda generator/welder. Nuclear is the cleanest most cost effective power producer, but folks (and politicians) are scared of it. The old Breeder Reactor project they canned back in the 80's would still be out producing anything we have today. Until we have a clean, reliable source for electricity that can increase our current production rate by tenfold, I don't think increasing our EV use by tenfold is a good idea.

The other point I'd like to make is that this is a tractor forum. As far as tractors go mine should be running strong long after I've passed away. I see zero need for an electric tractor because I see zero need for replacing the one I've got.

I think that we are in violent agreement. As far as electric vehicles go, as long as they are a consumer choice and not a requirement, I’m fine with this. My comment was strictly related to the notion that we won’t have sufficient electrical power generation without coal plants. Nonsense. Coal is quickly becoming obsolete and there are several other better choices for power generation. And most of these choices are cheaper than coal as an energy source.

 

[Jchonline]

Recently, I received a survey from Kubota about electric tractors; it said that I received it due to my purchase of a sub-30 HP tractor. I guess Kubota is trying to measure interest in electric compact/sub-compact tractors. Based on the questions, it would seem that Kubota thinks such a tractor will be more expensive than a current diesel model. I am sure my answers conveyed my lack of interest and my preference for diesel power.

What were your reactions?

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Seriously though...it has to start somewhere. Electric machines could have huge benefits INSIDE structures (think mini-ex doing wall demo in a building).

In a field...well a few hours or run time is no Bueno for me. Not only that, but I am off grid so I would not even have the power to charge one without $20,000 solar array just for it.

 

[DaveFromMi]

So, in the future when everything is electric ... I guess when your power goes out from a storm or whatnot, you would just crank up your battery powered electric backup generator to produce electricity to run your house and recharge your electric generator batteries. Sounds like a well thought plan

That would be going above and beyond a perpetual motion machine. Might have to try out a cold fusion generator

 

[Jchonline]

The point of my sarcasm is that an electric (battery powered) generator doesn't exist because using electricity to run a motor to turn a generator to produce electricity is a losing endeavor.

I agree with your point that coal is not as efficient or clean as natural gas, I have a propane honda generator/welder. Nuclear is the cleanest most cost effective power producer, but folks (and politicians) are scared of it. The old Breeder Reactor project they canned back in the 80's would still be out producing anything we have today. Until we have a clean, reliable source for electricity that can increase our current production rate by tenfold, I don't think increasing our EV use by tenfold is a good idea.

The other point I'd like to make is that this is a tractor forum. As far as tractors go mine should be running strong long after I've passed away. I see zero need for an electric tractor because I see zero need for replacing the one I've got.

A few things here are correct, a few warrant more discussion.

1. Nuclear power is cleaner than fossil fuels. It isn't cleaner than solar or wind if you take CO2 emissions needed to manufacture (remember 5-7 years to build). Im not really concerned about waste today but if we add 2000 nuclear plants it might be a problem. I understand the limitations of solar (no sun) and wind (no wind) so we will always need an on demand source. Right now I dont see batteries providing that on a utility scale.
2. Nuclear power is the most expensive per KW to build and it takes the longest to construct.
3. I agree on the reliable source...its a joke today. All of these EVs, pushing electric heating in homes, etc...its nuts when there is no power generation to support it.

Additional comment, decentralizing and re-designing the US electric grid should also be a priority. I would be fine with spending $100 billion to completely modernize, harden, and decentralize it for clean energy and future needs.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Carbon capture is going to change all this.

Nukes? you can clean carbon out of the atmosphere, you can't clean up radiation, only move it from one place to another.
If Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and Fukushima haven't taught people a lesson, they must be living under a rock, man has proven they can not handle nuclear power.

 

[jyoutz]

A few things here are correct, a few warrant more discussion.

1. Nuclear power is cleaner than fossil fuels. It isn't cleaner than solar or wind if you take CO2 emissions needed to manufacture (remember 5-7 years to build). Im not really concerned about waste today but if we add 2000 nuclear plants it might be a problem. I understand the limitations of solar (no sun) and wind (no wind) so we will always need an on demand source. Right now I dont see batteries providing that on a utility scale.
2. Nuclear power is the most expensive per KW to build and it takes the longest to construct.
3. I agree on the reliable source...its a joke today. All of these EVs, pushing electric heating in homes, etc...its nuts when there is no power generation to support it.

Additional comment, decentralizing and re-designing the US electric grid should also be a priority. I would be fine with spending $100 billion to completely modernize, harden, and decentralize it for clean energy and future needs.

I’m not so sure about decentralization of the power grid. Texas showed the problem with that last winter. Interconnected grids allow for backup power when generation stations go down. The only places in Texas that had power during that incident was west Texas that was tied into the interstate grid.

 

[DDCD]

A few things here are correct, a few warrant more discussion.

1. Nuclear power is cleaner than fossil fuels. It isn't cleaner than solar or wind if you take CO2 emissions needed to manufacture (remember 5-7 years to build). Im not really concerned about waste today but if we add 2000 nuclear plants it might be a problem. I understand the limitations of solar (no sun) and wind (no wind) so we will always need an on demand source. Right now I dont see batteries providing that on a utility scale.
2. Nuclear power is the most expensive per KW to build and it takes the longest to construct.
3. I agree on the reliable source...its a joke today. All of these EVs, pushing electric heating in homes, etc...its nuts when there is no power generation to support it.

Additional comment, decentralizing and re-designing the US electric grid should also be a priority. I would be fine with spending $100 billion to completely modernize, harden, and decentralize it for clean energy and future needs.

Until that transmission line comes anywhere near your property- then you're against it. Happens on every single transmission project. Makes it hard to get anything done.

I’m not so sure about decentralization of the power grid. Texas showed the problem with that last winter. Interconnected grids allow for backup power when generation stations go down. The only places in Texas that had power during that incident was west Texas that was tied into the interstate grid.

This and NIMBY. It's why so few new transmission lines are built.

I look forward to when battery tech has matured enough and I can get rid of some motors. I think I have 9 right now to maintain. My tractor usage is usually an hour or less at a time. I think with the right batteries a little electric B or L series would be nice for a lot of people.

 

[Jchonline]

Until that transmission line comes anywhere near your property- then you're against it. Happens on every single transmission project. Makes it hard to get anything done.

This and NIMBY. It's why so few new transmission lines are built.

I look forward to when battery tech has matured enough and I can get rid of some motors. I think I have 9 right now to maintain. My tractor usage is usually an hour or less at a time. I think with the right batteries a little electric B or L series would be nice for a lot of people.

Never said they had to be the same old type of transmission lines we started a hundred years ago. Lets modernize it…use our brains to make something better. Underground? It sure costs more and you have to suspend the line in liquid (and I believe pressurize it) but come on…we have to come up with something.

You are absolutely right…a few hours of charge on a smaller machine might be fine for 30% of B or LX owners…why not give them the option.

For me mowing a field, moving hay all day, regrading land, forestry management on my 45 ish acres…I just need an all day machine.