understanding rear remotes

[KAD72]

New to this site. I have a Kioti 2210 w/loader and a 60" deck mower, I am going to sell closer to spring after the winter. I live 1/2 mile off a road so I need something to clear the snow. I am going to upgrade in the spring to a choice of the Kubota L3901 w/front loader & backhoe or the Kioti CK4010. Both tractors are in the 37.5-39.5 hp. If I go with Kubota I need a rear snowblower and if I go with the Kioti I have a mid mount PTO that I can go with a front mount blower

I do not understand the rear remote system (1st, 2nd or 3rd function positioning). I am old school so technical terminology isn't good with me lol. Is it meaning 1-3 hydraulic valves or what? and will it require more levers on the side of the tractor?

 

[TheOldHokie]

New to this site. I have a Kioti 2210 w/loader and a 60" deck mower, I am going to sell closer to spring after the winter. I live 1/2 mile off a road so I need something to clear the snow. I am going to upgrade in the spring to a choice of the Kubota L3901 w/front loader & backhoe or the Kioti CK4010. Both tractors are in the 37.5-39.5 hp. If I go with Kubota I need a rear snowblower and if I go with the Kioti I have a mid mount PTO that I can go with a front mount blower

I do not understand the rear remote system (1st, 2nd or 3rd function positioning). I am old school so technical terminology isn't good with me lol. Is it meaning 1-3 hydraulic valves or what? and will it require more levers on the side of the tractor?

The Kubota rear remotes are a stack of section valves mounted on the side of the tractor transmission with levers that come up along the right side of the seat. Maximum of three valves can be added using this scheme and they are sold individually - e.g. first position, second position, third position. The Kubota valves will run you about $2300 + installation from the dealer. Here are some pictures of my "almost OEM' version I am putting on my L3901. Next year you may be looking at the new L3902 in place of the L3901.

Tractor hydraulics are not going to run a snow blower on either of those tractors. They would only be used for raisng/lower the blower and possibly angling the discharge.

Dan

 

[PortTackFarm]

You might want to add the Kubota L3560 to your list as it is available with the mid PTO for a front blower and also available with a cab. I'm in KY and our property is recreational so snow removal isn't a issue for me, but if snow removal was a job I'd need to worry about those would be features I'd be very interested in.

 

[NCL4701]

If you go with an aftermarket option for rear remotes there are a plethora of options and mine has OEM remotes so this is related to OEM. Will leave any discussion of A/M to others who have them or more expertise with them. The below is a L4701. I believe the L3901 is similar but probably a good idea to confirm with dealer.

Now that disclaimer is done…
Regardless of rear remotes, beside and slightly below your right hip as you sit in the seat there’s a rather large lever that controls the 3 point. Just above and behind that there are slots. Without OEM remotes there’s nothing in the slots.

With OEM rear remotes, there are one, two, or three hydraulic valves mounted on under the right side of the seat. In this case, one is larger than the others because it has a float detent whereas the other two are center returns. The first one (closest to center of the machine) has to be a center return due to insufficient space for a float or continuous flow detent. The second and third can be detents if you wish.

The controls for those valves fit in the three slots above the three point height control. All three control levers are different heights so you can reach down and easily tell which one your on by feel without looking.

The actual remote connects are stacked on a bracket on the right side of the ROPS. In my case, they almost always control the hydraulic top link and side link with one left over. I normally have the float detent valve hooked to the top link but can float the side link by swapping the hoses at the quick connects. I prefer ability to float the top for mowing and prefer to float the tilt for pulling gravel out of ditches.

I don’t currently have a specific use for the third remote. I had it installed at the same time as the other two because a significant element of cost is labor due to having to remove and reinstall the right rear wheel and fender for access. At some point if I get ambitious I may add a hydraulic cylinder to my manually adjustable back blade and if that ever happens I’ll be needing the third remote as I’m not giving up the hydraulic top and tilt for grading work.

Edit: Since someone else mentioned cost if the OEM remotes, mine were dealer installed for $3200 but that also included the hydraulic top link, hydraulic side link and additional hoses and fitting associated with the cylinders. They ain’t cheap. Installation was very easy for me because I dropped it at the dealer one morning and picked it up the next afternoon. Biggest issue for me doing it by myself, in my mind anyway, was removing the 600+lb loaded rear wheel/tire assy. I had access to an appropriate tire handler but it was 2 hours away so I’d have 8 hours in the two round trips just to pick it up and return it. I’m not retired so dealer was a better option for me.

 

[TheOldHokie]

If you go with an aftermarket option for rear remotes there are a plethora of options and mine has OEM remotes so this is related to OEM. Will leave any discussion of A/M to others who have them or more expertise with them. The below is a L4701. I believe the L3901 is similar but probably a good idea to confirm with dealer.

Now that disclaimer is done…
Regardless of rear remotes, beside and slightly below your right hip as you sit in the seat there’s a rather large lever that controls the 3 point. Just above and behind that there are slots. Without OEM remotes there’s nothing in the slots.

View attachment 69578
With OEM rear remotes, there are one, two, or three hydraulic valves mounted on under the right side of the seat. In this case, one is larger than the others because it has a float detent whereas the other two are center returns. The first one (closest to center of the machine) has to be a center return due to insufficient space for a float or continuous flow detent. The second and third can be detents if you wish. View attachment 69579
The controls for those valves fit in the three slots above the three point height control. All three control levers are different heights so you can reach down and easily tell which one your on by feel without looking. View attachment 69580
The actual remote connects are stacked on a bracket on the right side of the ROPS. In my case, they almost always control the hydraulic top link and side link with one left over. I normally have the float detent valve hooked to the top link but can float the side link by swapping the hoses at the quick connects. I prefer ability to float the top for mowing and prefer to float the tilt for pulling gravel out of ditches.

I don’t currently have a specific use for the third remote. I had it installed at the same time as the other two because a significant element of cost is labor due to having to remove and reinstall the right rear wheel and fender for access. At some point if I get ambitious I may add a hydraulic cylinder to my manually adjustable back blade and if that ever happens I’ll be needing the third remote as I’m not giving up the hydraulic top and tilt for grading work.

Edit: Since someone else mentioned cost if the OEM remotes, mine were dealer installed for $3200 but that also included the hydraulic top link, hydraulic side link and additional hoses and fitting associated with the cylinders. They ain’t cheap. Installation was very easy for me because I dropped it at the dealer one morning and picked it up the next afternoon. Biggest issue for me doing it by myself, in my mind anyway, was removing the 600+lb loaded rear wheel/tire assy. I had access to an appropriate tire handler but it was 2 hours away so I’d have 8 hours in the two round trips just to pick it up and return it. I’m not retired so dealer was a better option for me.

Thanks for those pictures. Very similar to the L2501/L3301/L3901 but I see one major difference. The valves are mounted upside down with the work ports on the underside. There are also custom made inlet and outlet covers on your stack.

I have the installation manual for one of the earlier versions of the kits used on the smaller HP machines and it too had the valves upside down but the current kits have the work ports mounted right side up so that may be a reflection of the vintage of your machine. I can't see the tractor connections to your stack - are there one or two hoses in addition to the work ports.?

Dan

 

[NCL4701]

Thanks for those pictures. Very similar to the L2501/L3301/L3901 but I see one major difference. The valves are mounted upside down with the work ports on the underside. There are also custom made inlet and outlet covers on your stack.

I have the installation manual for one of the earlier versions of the kits used on the smaller HP machines and it too had the valves upside down but the current kits have the work ports mounted right side up so that may be a reflection of the vintage of your machine. I can't see the tractor connections to your stack - are there one or two hoses in addition to the work ports.?

Dan

I believe there are two but it’s been a while since I looked at it.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I believe there are two but it’s been a while since I looked at it.

The reason I ask is I am wondering if my aftermarket version might work on the L4701 either as is or with minor tweaks. It has two hoses and is starting to look very much like that stack with the valves turned up.

Edit: I just looked at the parts diagrams and the current L4701 kits are nothing like that. The valves are mounted vertically and use a manifold similar to the one used on the Grand L's.
Dan

 

[NCL4701]

The reason I ask is I am wondering if my aftermarket version might work on the L4701 either as is or with minor tweaks. It has two hoses and is starting to look very much like that stack with the valves turned up.

Edit: I just looked at the parts diagrams and the current L4701 kits are nothing like that. The valves are mounted vertically and use a manifold similar to the one used on the Grand L's.
Dan

Interesting. Mine is allegedly a 2019 model. SN: 66466. Certainly could have been changes since then.

If you want me to check mine when I get home, I will but sounds like it won’t matter much.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Interesting. Mine is allegedly a 2019 model. SN: 66466. Certainly could have been changes since then.

If you want me to check mine when I get home, I will but sounds like it won’t matter much.

Do you happen to have the kit part numbers? Id be interested in seeing the parts diagrams. Without an actual tractor to work against its not very easy to build custom systems.

Dan

 

[NCL4701]

Il

Do you happen to have the kit part numbers? Id be interested in seeing the parts diagrams. Without an actual tractor to work against its not very easy to build custom systems.

Dan

I’ll look to see what documentation I have. Might be tomorrow morning. Since it was a turnkey dealer install I don’t recall how much detail I have in the paperwork. I’ll check on the number of connections as well.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Il

I’ll look to see what documentation I have. Might be tomorrow morning. Since it was a turnkey dealer install I don’t recall how much detail I have in the paperwork. I’ll check on the number of connections as well.

Not a big deal. I found a video of someone installing that kit on an L3901 and it has lots of shots of the manifolds and porting. I was little confused by the manifold porting. There are three o-ring ports on th backside of teh manifold - one is clearly tank return and one looks to be pressure out from teh tractor but the other one had me baffled. There are also two external fittings on the inlet and outlet sections. That was all explained the instant he hooked up the one hose supplied, It loops teh power beyond outlet on the outer end of the stack back to the fitting on the bottom of the inboard manifold where it then goes back into the tractor. via the mystery o-ring port, A bit of a Rube Goldberg arrangement but having spent a few hours trying to design inlet and outlet sections of my own I understand the circuits and the difficulty of getting all of those internal cavities in those machined aluminum blocks. Also gives me a clue about what the unused o-ring port on the other L01's is all about. The new version of the kit for the L4701 is a lot cleaner.

I am sure I could replicate that old kit if I had a tractor to use for taking measurements and test fitting but not gonna happen from afar. Here is a link to the video if you are interested - a bit long but very informative.

Remote Valve install on L4701

Dan

 

[NCL4701]

Not a big deal. I found a video of someone installing that kit on an L3901 and it has lots of shots of the manifolds and porting. I was little confused by the manifold porting. There are three o-ring ports on th backside of teh manifold - one is clearly tank return and one looks to be pressure out from teh tractor but the other one had me baffled. There are also two external fittings on the inlet and outlet sections. That was all explained the instant he hooked up the one hose supplied, It loops teh power beyond outlet on the outer end of the stack back to the fitting on the bottom of the inboard manifold where it then goes back into the tractor. via the mystery o-ring port, A bit of a Rube Goldberg arrangement but having spent a few hours trying to design inlet and outlet sections of my own I understand the circuits and the difficulty of getting all of those internal cavities in those machined aluminum blocks. Also gives me a clue about what the unused o-ring port on the other L01's is all about. The new version of the kit for the L4701 is a lot cleaner.

I am sure I could replicate that old kit if I had a tractor to use for taking measurements and test fitting but not gonna happen from afar. Here is a link to the video if you are interested - a bit long but very informative.

Remote Valve install on L4701

Dan

Looked at it. About all the pic shows is it’s so dang tight in there it’s hard to tell what exactly is going where with any confidence without some disassembly. I couldn’t find but one hose going anywhere other than to the six going to the rear remote ports. How that’s all run off one hose is beyond me unless the manifold directly connects hydraulically where it mounts to the tractor (without involvement of hoses) but I’ll reread your post above a few times and check out the video. Maybe it will make more sense after that. I understand the hydraulic routing on a wood splitter but some of the open center everything hooked to everything else stuff gets confusing to me on these tractors festooned with hydraulics. Although I understand the principle of everything in series, in practice the quantity of valves and one diverter it seems to get a bit messy.

The part numbers on the invoice are shown below.

 

[TheOldHokie]

In a fashion it actually runs off zero hoses. There are three ports on the side of the l4701 transmission - pressure out, pressure return, and tank return. That is the same porting as the hydraulic block under the floor boards on the other L01 models.

On the L4701 the pressure supply for the remote valves comes from the boss on the side of the tractor transmissuon into the center port on the manifold and goes through the center of the valve stack to the "power beyond port on the other end of the stack. The hose simply loops that exit port back to the transmission manifold where it enters the pressure return on the boss on the side of the transmission and continues to the 3pt valve. In the newer kit that loopback is done by internal passages in the stack.

Tank return is also done internally in the valves via a third port in the transmission manifold.

Ugly but pretty straight forward.

Dan

 

[NCL4701]

In a fashion it actually runs off zero hoses. There are three ports on the side of the l4701 transmission - pressure out, pressure return, and tank return. That is the same porting as the hydraulic block under the floor boards on the other L01 models.

On the L4701 the pressure supply for the remote valves comes from the boss on the side of the tractor transmissuon into the center port on the manifold and goes through the center of the valve stack to the "power beyond port on the other end of the stack. The hose simply loops that exit port back to the transmission manifold where it enters the pressure return on the boss on the side of the transmission and continues to the 3pt valve. In the newer kit that loopback is done by internal passages in the stack.

Tank return is also done internally in the valves via a third port in the transmission manifold.

Ugly but pretty straight forward.

Dan

That makes sense. I didn’t see how it could possibly work unless some of the plumbing isn’t visible and some of it isn’t. Also makes sense tat the manifold required for one (or more) remotes is pretty pricey by itself. Appreciate the explanation.

 

[TheOldHokie]

That makes sense. I didn’t see how it could possibly work unless some of the plumbing isn’t visible and some of it isn’t. Also makes sense tat the manifold required for one (or more) remotes is pretty pricey by itself. Appreciate the explanation.

That makes sense. I didn’t see how it could possibly work unless some of the plumbing isn’t visible and some of it isn’t. Also makes sense tat the manifold required for one (or more) remotes is pretty pricey by itself. Appreciate the explanation.

The manifold is a $25 chunk of aluminum and a little drilling and machining. In the quantities Kubota would CNC them they are not expensive. I will be making one tomorrow using an old manual mill and it should be done in about an hour if I don't make any mistakes. Here is the parts diagram for the new version. Much more complicated to make but a whole lot cleaner.

Dan

 

[BDT]

If I go with Kubota I need a rear snowblower and if I go with the Kioti I have a mid mount PTO that I can go with a front mount blower

I run a rear snowblower on my old B2910 and don't need any hydraulics (the chute is operated manually). I prefer a rear snowblower so that still have the loader bucket available for snow and also to help me get unstuck.