Grounding and Bonding Fuel Stations

[Gene Blister]

I’m finally giving up juggling 5gal jugs and building a fuel storage and pump station. I’ll have both diesel and gasoline.

I’m pretty much satisfied I have the 55gal steel barrels cleaned, any loose rust and debris removed and the pump, plumbing and filters properly installed.

It’s the “grounding and bonding” I’m not clear about. I know any column moving thru a constriction, like air in a wood shop vacuum pipe or fuel thru a hose, will generate static electricity. If the stuff has a low flash point, like gasoline vapor, possible boom. Bonding and grounding is the fix.

Grounding, or Earthing, apparently needs a connection between the storage vessel and the earth. I’m thinking of a jumper cable, one jaw attached to the barrel where the paint is removed for good contact, the other to a copper pipe pounded into the soil.

Bonding seems to be a connection between the vessel in which the fuel is stored and the thing into which it’s being pumped. If you’re pumping from the barrel to a smaller gas can, connect another cable to each to balance their electrical potentials.

When pumping fuel into the tractor, do I clip the bonding cable to the frame of the tractor? When pumping gasoline into our vehicles or things like the lawnmower, do I bond from barrel to the bumper or deck?

Your insight and experience is most appreciated!

 

[GeoHorn]

I you use the proper equipment you shouldn’t have a problem.
Number One: Use a delivery hose that is MADE for Gasoline. It will be so-labelled on it’s outside. That hose will be constructed of materials suitable for gasoline and will be conductive to handle static. Do Not Use hoses not made and labelled for gasoline-delivery.
Two: keep the nozzle of the spigot/handle touching the edge of the filler-neck continuously while pumping gasoline. This will prevent a build-up of static differential.
Three: Stay physically connected/touching the delivery equipment while refueling. Moving away and returning exposes yourself to the possibility of static-differential and discharge. (This is why signs at gasoline stations warn against leaving the pump and re-entering your car and then returning. Your synthetic clothing, the synthetic upholstery of the car, and your movement can create static, and only needs for you to return to grab that delivery-handle awash in gasoline vapors at the filler-neck to have a dangerous spark/explosion.

 

[B737]

I always laugh at the static lines in these small delivery set ups. Maybe for gasoline I might give it a second thought, but unless you are moving a LOT of fuel, very quickly, it's not something to even worry about. Soon they will put static lines on 5 gallon jugs.

 

[Henro]

I always laugh at the static lines in these small delivery set ups. Maybe for gasoline I might give it a second thought, but unless you are moving a LOT of fuel, very quickly, it's not something to even worry about. Soon they will put static lines on 5 gallon jugs.

You could be right, but the old expression "Famous Last Words..." comes to mind.

No LOL here... "Better safe than sorry..."

 

[B737]

eh i wouldn't sweat it.

I regularly see 50,000 gallons go into a jet in about 20 minutes, sometimes (accidentally) without any bonding wire happens more frequently than I'd care to find. Or more often, the bonding wire is hooked to a giant gob of grease on the landing gear . While I don't know for sure, but in these applications, the single point nozzles and hoses are probably grounding the connection themselves but still, I'm definitely not losing sleep over a few gallons of diesel moving over a minute or two into a piece of equipment...

 

[Henro]

eh i wouldn't sweat it.

I regularly see 50,000 gallons go into a jet in about 20 minutes, sometimes (accidentally) without any bonding wire happens more frequently than I'd care to find. Or more often, the bonding wire is hooked to a giant gob of grease on the landing gear . While I don't know for sure, but in these applications, the single point nozzles and hoses are probably grounding the connection themselves but still, I'm definitely not losing sleep over a few gallons of diesel moving over a minute or two into a piece of equipment...

Frankly, I also do not worry about diesel and static sparks.

But I would never advise someone else not to worry. ESPECIALLY with gasoline. Sort of believe in Murphy's law, which I think states if something can go wrong it will, or something like that.

Just remembered something from when I was a kid. We had a metal can, probably would hold about a gallon of liquid, and was the shape of a normal cylinder. It had about an inch of gas in the bottom. We kept being impressed, because we could throw burning bits of sticks into the gas at the bottom of the can, and the gas would put out the burning embers and never catch fire.

AND we were close, looking into the can as we did it!

Thinking back on this, all I can say is WOW!

 

[B737]

Frankly, I also do not worry about diesel and static sparks.

But I would never advise someone else not to worry. ESPECIALLY with gasoline. Sort of believe in Murphy's law, which I think states if something can go wrong it will, or something like that.

Just remembered something from when I was a kid. We had a metal can, probably would hold about a gallon of liquid, and was the shape of a normal cylinder. It had about an inch of gas in the bottom. We kept being impressed, because we could throw burning bits of sticks into the gas at the bottom of the can, and the gas would put out the burning embers and never catch fire.

AND we were close, looking into the can as we did it!

Thinking back on this, all I can say is WOW!

lol kids!! That’s a classic
Yeah I agree on the gasoline, I might give that some extra consideration too

 

[Fordtech86]

I regularly see 50,000 gallons go into a jet in about 20 minutes, sometimes (accidentally) without any bonding wire

Reminds me of the day I got the safety inspector that comes around work.

The bulk brake cleaner barrel is right next to my bays. Supposed to be grounded. Well usually whoever swaps the barrels never grounds them. So he shows up one day and Im standing there, he looks at me and asks if we have a ground for the barrel (the wire thats supposed to hook to the barrel is attached to one of the beams and just laying on the ground). I told him yeah the old one is over there, but we upgraded to a wireless system, we just bluetooth the ground to that beam now . At least I got a laugh out of him.

 

[mcmxi]

I bought a 106 gallon Jon Dow fuel storage tank earlier this year. It's plastic, has an auto shut off nozzle and battery powered pump and has labels stating "diesel only". No grounding wire is supplied or mentioned.

 

[B737]

we upgraded to a wireless system, we just bluetooth the ground to that beam now . At least I got a laugh out of him.

LOOOOOL thats a good one I will use that next time I see it!!!

 

[Henro]

lol kids!! That’s a classic
Yeah I agree on the gasoline, I might give that some extra consideration too

You know, I just remembered another one. Amazes me perhaps even more.

I am not sure why we had hydrochloric acid and sufuric acid as kids.

But we did. AND we did not have any flasks. BUT we did have some incandescent light bulbs. Solution? Break open the bulb from the bottom, and open it up, after pulling the filament out, who hoo, a pseudo flask appeared.

AND we naturally poured the water into the acid, backwards from the recommended practice, and watched it bubble in our homemade "flask". Why, thinking back, I have no idea the reason we did this...fortunately no lifelong disfigurements.

Then there was the homemade table saw we made. Worked fine until my friend almost cut his thumb off. Big cut, lots of blood. Parents seemed to think that was what kids did...nothing came of it otherwise...

How life changes over sixty years!

 

[xrocketengineer]

You know, I just remembered another one. Amazes me perhaps even more.

I am not sure why we had hydrochloric acid and sufuric acid as kids.

But we did. AND we did not have any flasks. BUT we did have some incandescent light bulbs. Solution? Break open the bulb from the bottom, and open it up, after pulling the filament out, who hoo, a pseudo flask appeared.

AND we naturally poured the water into the acid, backwards from the recommended practice, and watched it bubble in our homemade "flask". Why, thinking back, I have no idea the reason we did this...fortunately no lifelong disfigurements.

Then there was the homemade table saw we made. Worked fine until my friend almost cut his thumb off. Big cut, lots of blood. Parents seemed to think that was what kids did...nothing came of it otherwise...

How life changes over sixty years!

You did not live a sheltered life when you were growing up! It is impressing that you survived your childhood!

 

[bird dogger]

You know, I just remembered another one. Amazes me perhaps even more.

I am not sure why we had hydrochloric acid and sufuric acid as kids.

But we did. AND we did not have any flasks. BUT we did have some incandescent light bulbs. Solution? Break open the bulb from the bottom, and open it up, after pulling the filament out, who hoo, a pseudo flask appeared.

AND we naturally poured the water into the acid, backwards from the recommended practice, and watched it bubble in our homemade "flask". Why, thinking back, I have no idea the reason we did this...fortunately no lifelong disfigurements.

Then there was the homemade table saw we made. Worked fine until my friend almost cut his thumb off. Big cut, lots of blood. Parents seemed to think that was what kids did...nothing came of it otherwise...

How life changes over sixty years!

Agreed! LOL! as a kid, I would take apart the old tractor batteries for the lead. Then melt it down on the kitchen stove to cast round .50 cal ball ammo for my Hawkins muzzle loader. That went on until one day, being careless, I over filled the mold and the overflow burned through the cheap counter top and some of mom's tupperware down below. It was a rough few days around the house afterwards and the burn hole remained as some form of mental punishment of my carelessness.

 

[NCL4701]

As GeoHorn said, use hoses, fittings, nozzles specifically designed/rated for gasoline with the gasoline setup.

I think everyone (at least the participants in this conversation) know either explicitly or implicitly based on experience the problem with gasoline is the flash point is around -45 degrees Fahrenheit. Diesel varies more than gasoline with the low end of flash point range about 125F, high end around 180F. Jet fuel is around 100F, again with some variation.

Of course flash point is the temperature at which the liquid turns to gas. None of them are particularly dangerous as an explosion hazard in liquid form. In gaseous form there is an explosion hazard.

At normal ambient temperatures the explosion hazard for diesel and jet fuel is low to zero because there’s no gas present, only liquid. To ignite the liquid, at least some part of the liquid has to be heated to ignition temperature. A mild static spark such as a person getting back in their car and returning a few minutes later or from a relatively small amount of fuel flowing through a hose from a pump may vary widely in absolute temperature but it’s several thousand degrees, far more than the ignition temp of any of the three fuels, just of too short a duration to raise the temperature of anything substantial (liquid or solid) around it sufficient to cause ignition. On the other hand that spark can sometimes ignite a gas creating a chain reaction (explosion).

Gasoline fueling hoses are designed with wires bonded to the metal nozzle on one end and the pump on the other end to dissipate any difference in potential between the vehicle and the pump/tank. Diesel fueling hoses at fuel stations often have the same setup although it probably isn’t really necessary. No clue about jet fueling. So far I’ve avoided aviation fires, so I’ll defer to B737 on jet fueling procedures.

So I would second GeoHorn’s advice to use gasoline rated items on the gasoline pump/tank. And be a little more circumspect in spark avoidance with the gasoline.

The diesel isn’t as big a deal from a safety standpoint so long as you don’t drink it or bathe in it.

 

[NCL4701]

Speaking of safety growing up, we had loaded guns scattered around the house from my earliest memory. My father always said an unloaded gun was nothing but an overpriced stick and he didn’t have any use for an overpriced stick.

First time my son went to the doctor without one of us present, about 12 years old, he said the doctor asked him if we had guns in the house. He told the doctor yes. Doctor then asked if we kept the guns locked up and ammo locked up separate. He said yes. Told him he knows every gun in the house is hammer down on empty chamber, full magazine. He said, yeah I know you don’t need an overpriced stick and we all know how to use the guns, but that’s none of that doctor’s business.

Edit: BTW my son is 25 and we have no minors in the house these days.

 

[GeoHorn]

Speaking of safety growing up, we had loaded guns scattered around the house from my earliest memory. My father always said an unloaded gun was nothing but an overpriced stick and he didn’t have any use for an overpriced stick.

First time my son went to the doctor without one of us present, about 12 years old, he said the doctor asked him if we had guns in the house. He told the doctor yes. Doctor then asked if we kept the guns locked up and ammo locked up separate. He said yes. Told him he knows every gun in the house is hammer down on empty chamber, full magazine. He said, yeah I know you don’t need an overpriced stick and we all know how to use the guns, but that’s none of that doctor’s business.

Edit: BTW my son is 25 and we have no minors in the house these days.

I’ve heard of physicians asking this question as part of their states’ insurance bureau requirements…. supposedly related as a warning-light should there be any mental illness issues in the household.

I agree that perhaps it’s an invasion of privacy (unless the kid has a mental issue and the Dr. feels the need to counsel the parents about it) …but the thing that really violates my sensitivities is that any divulging by the Dr to anyone outside the household would be a violation of HIPA.
If I were a Dr. I’d be more concerned about a HIPA violation/lawsuit than I would about whether guns, poisons, knives, cars, or hammers were in a household.

 

[Joisey]

Speaking of safety growing up, we had loaded guns scattered around the house from my earliest memory. My father always said an unloaded gun was nothing but an overpriced stick and he didn’t have any use for an overpriced stick.

First time my son went to the doctor without one of us present, about 12 years old, he said the doctor asked him if we had guns in the house. He told the doctor yes. Doctor then asked if we kept the guns locked up and ammo locked up separate. He said yes. Told him he knows every gun in the house is hammer down on empty chamber, full magazine. He said, yeah I know you don’t need an overpriced stick and we all know how to use the guns, but that’s none of that doctor’s business.

Edit: BTW my son is 25 and we have no minors in the house these days.

About 5 years ago in January, our doctor handed out a questionnaire. Do you smoke...how much do you drink...how much do you do illegal drugs...what drug(s) and how much, do you have unprotected sex....how often and do you have guns in the home...how many.

I wrote "none of your damn business" across all the questions and handed it in. Got a dirty look from the girls behind the desk. What, is this Russia?

 

[Russell King]

For the ground point, you can buy a copper coated steel rod to drive into the ground. Depending on the soil conditions, you can drive it in with a t-post driver or dig a post hole and then drive it into the bottom of that hole.

The rods are available in electrical sections of hardware stores or the two large chain home improvement/lumber yards.

 

[D2Cat]

For the ground point, you can buy a copper coated steel rod to drive into the ground. Depending on the soil conditions, you can drive it in with a t-post driver or dig a post hole and then drive it into the bottom of that hole.

The rods are available in electrical sections of hardware stores or the two large chain home improvement/lumber yards.

Or you can create a trench with whatever equipment you have and lay the rod in the bottom. Depth not a big issue.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Use to use 10' galv coated 10' steel 'ground rods' for my remote energy control systems. Could get 14 miles of communications with them. Could also tell when the river between master and some slaves was high or low.