Weak bucket curl

[boost2525]

Hey all - new B2601 owner (coming from a Mahindra Max 22). I have about 6 hours in the seat so far and we finally got some time to mess around with the bucket yesterday with a load of fill dirt... but I had some challenges and I'm looking for feedback on whether this is normal for this tractor or something I should be reaching out to the dealer about.

• I had a lot of trouble back-dragging the dirt. I was in 4-low and if I had more than an inch or so of dirt against the bucket it ran out of steam and wouldn't budge. On my Mahindra I used to be able to back drag with at least five or six inches of dirt against the bucket.
• I had issues with the bucket curl. It couldn't curl a scoop out of the pile unless it was 50% or less of the buckets capacity, and it couldn't back curl the top of the pile.

It's a brand new setup from the dealer, LA435 loader with SSQA bucket.

It does have the Land Pride third function kit if that matters - this is my first experience with a third function. When I removed the grapple I just disconnected the two quick disconnects on the front of the loader arms... maybe I have an open loop somewhere? Was I supposed connect something else after disconnecting the grapple?

Maybe my expectations are wrong...but that Mahindra was a smaller tractor and was much more capable of dirt work than the B2601 was yesterday.

 

[Jchonline]

The weight of these 2 machines is the same. You didn't get a more capable tractor. Most owners will need a 30% increase in weight (or HP if you are doing HP intensive tasks) to see a noticeable difference in performance. On the Mahindra did you have any additional weight (ie loaded rear tires or backhoe)?


1. What do you mean ran out of steam? Did the tractor bog down, or did the tires start spinning?
2. Hard to know on the curl, you can get the dealer to check hydraulic pressure or you can do some looking and check it yourself. If its in tolerance it should be fine.
3. 3rd function - I don't think it should impact curl performance. if you had a diverter setup and had the grapple on it would compete, but you had the bucket on. If you have true 3rd function (plumbed from the pump) the it would not impact either.

Maybe some B owners can chime in, but this doesn't seem normal.

 

[B737]

The LA435 has a little less roll back angle than most other loaders for some reason. Are your rear tires loaded? It sounds like you may have been running out of traction while back dragging.

My experience with the B2601, when scooping full buckets, while the bucket is buried in the pile, you will often not have enough break out force to simply curl it back, you will have to curl as you reverse gently with the machine. What is the material you were working with? what RPM were you running?

(assuming 54" bucket in low gear and 4x4)

 

[boost2525]

The weight of these 2 machines is the same. You didn't get a more capable tractor. Most owners will need a 30% increase in weight (or HP if you are doing HP intensive tasks) to see a noticeable difference in performance. On the Mahindra did you have any additional weight (ie loaded rear tires or backhoe)?


1. What do you mean ran out of steam? Did the tractor bog down, or did the tires start spinning?
2. Hard to know on the curl, you can get the dealer to check hydraulic pressure or you can do some looking and check it yourself. If its in tolerance it should be fine.
3. 3rd function - I don't think it should impact curl performance. if you had a diverter setup and had the grapple on it would compete, but you had the bucket on. If you have true 3rd function (plumbed from the pump) the it would not impact either.

Maybe some B owners can chime in, but this doesn't seem normal.

You're correct that the weight is similar (the Max 22 was actually heavier because of the backhoe subframe), but I can account for the weight with my 3pt ballast. That said, the Kubota has significantly more hydraulic power (7.3 gpm vs 4.3) and a noticeable HP difference (26 vs 23)...which is why I am disappointed in the curl capability most.

By ran out of steam I mean that I just couldn't go. Wheels weren't spinning and you could hear the hydrostatic whining / fighting me.

 

[boost2525]

The LA435 has a little less roll back angle than most other loaders for some reason. Are your rear tires loaded? It sounds like you may have been running out of traction while back dragging.

My experience with the B2601, when scooping full buckets, while the bucket is buried in the pile, you will often not have enough break out force to simply curl it back, you will have to curl as you reverse gently with the machine. What is the material you were working with? what RPM were you running?

(assuming 54" bucket)

I had a ballast box on to offset the front weight when transiting but I have not loaded the wheels themselves yet. I was going to order some iron weights later this month. It was a heavier clay, so I wasn't going for broke on the scoops but I was really disappointed in that curl / break out from the pile as you mentioned. I'll try a slow reverse while I curl this time.

 

[B737]

yes if working with heavier clay, fill, esp fill with high moisture you are going to find the limits very quickly! One of my greatest frustrations with my B2601 was scooping fill with it, the engine lugging way down entering the pile and then not being able to curl the bucket. Just have to take smaller bites. What you are describing does not sound abnormal.

 

[dirtydeed]

I would assume that your new B2601 would have a larger bucket then the mahindra (hence, more volume). Both of those loaders look like they are supposed to lift in the 900# range. Maybe that's the issue you are seeing? It may take a bit of time to get your new machine to lift and curl out a full bucket each time.

Also, you stated that the kubota has a higher flow rate. That does not mean that it has more hydraulic power. Power would be related to pressure and cylinder diameter. Flow rates only determine speed (rate) at which you can operate the cylinders. Not trying to be a smart arse here. Just wanted to point that out.

I hope that you get things worked out and can enjoy your new machine. Best of luck to you and congrats on your new machine.

 

[OrangeKrush]

Something doesn't seem right.. I was very disappointed in my BX when trying to curl out of the middle of a pile.. until I got use to it. As B737 said backing while curling works great! You said you were having troubles off the top of the pile?? Unless that bucket was maxed out or you were too high with your boom it should have been able to curl from there.

No problem with back dragging at all with my BX.. that's what I would really be worried about if that's all it can do.

 

[fried1765]

Hey all - new B2601 owner (coming from a Mahindra Max 22). I have about 6 hours in the seat so far and we finally got some time to mess around with the bucket yesterday with a load of fill dirt... but I had some challenges and I'm looking for feedback on whether this is normal for this tractor or something I should be reaching out to the dealer about.

• I had a lot of trouble back-dragging the dirt. I was in 4-low and if I had more than an inch or so of dirt against the bucket it ran out of steam and wouldn't budge. On my Mahindra I used to be able to back drag with at least five or six inches of dirt against the bucket.
• I had issues with the bucket curl. It couldn't curl a scoop out of the pile unless it was 50% or less of the buckets capacity, and it couldn't back curl the top of the pile.

It's a brand new setup from the dealer, LA435 loader with SSQA bucket.

It does have the Land Pride third function kit if that matters - this is my first experience with a third function. When I removed the grapple I just disconnected the two quick disconnects on the front of the loader arms... maybe I have an open loop somewhere? Was I supposed connect something else after disconnecting the grapple?

Maybe my expectations are wrong...but that Mahindra was a smaller tractor and was much more capable of dirt work than the B2601 was yesterday.

It seems as though you may have been expecting way too much, for only a 3HP increase.
+3HP is not normally even noticable.

 

[GSD-Keegan]

I have a B2601. No issues curling a full bucket of soil. Just yesterday I was curling full buckets of gravel. And can back drag a lot more than an inch of soil. Tires will usually spin before the pressure relief valve opens up.
I would check hydraulic fluid level first. Then ask dealer to perform a pressure test.

 

[B737]

I have a B2601. No issues curling a full bucket of soil. Just yesterday I was curling full buckets of gravel. And can back drag a lot more than an inch of soil. Tires will usually spin before the pressure relief valve opens up.
I would check hydraulic fluid level first. Then ask dealer to perform a pressure test.

but he's not working with soil, or gravel.

 

[Jchonline]

You're correct that the weight is similar (the Max 22 was actually heavier because of the backhoe subframe), but I can account for the weight with my 3pt ballast. That said, the Kubota has significantly more hydraulic power (7.3 gpm vs 4.3) and a noticeable HP difference (26 vs 23)...which is why I am disappointed in the curl capability most.

By ran out of steam I mean that I just couldn't go. Wheels weren't spinning and you could hear the hydrostatic whining / fighting me.

First, flow rate has nothing to do with hydraulic power. PSI is important. This is why I recommended you have that tested. The 7.3 gpm is also TOTAL hydraulic flow that includes power steering. You are probably getting about 1/2 of that as flow outside of steering.

if you read my first post, I mentioned you need a 30% increase to notice a difference in operating. 3 HP about 13% difference...so again no you will not notice any real difference when operating.

Ok so in L you aren't spinning the tires but it is bogging down. This is unusual. I would expect the tires to spin. a 26HP tractor this light should easily spin the tires.

 

[Henro]

First, flow rate has nothing to do with hydraulic power. PSI is important. This is why I recommended you have that tested. The 7.3 gpm is also TOTAL hydraulic flow that includes power steering. You are probably getting about 1/2 of that as flow outside of steering.

if you read my first post, I mentioned you need a 30% increase to notice a difference in operating. 3 HP about 13% difference...so again no you will not notice any real difference when operating.

Ok so in L you aren't spinning the tires but it is bogging down. This is unusual. I would expect the tires to spin. a 26HP tractor this light should easily spin the tires.

Also, I may have missed it, but what gear range were you in? If you were in High, rather than low or mid range, there would certainly be less pull power...

 

[Jchonline]

Also, I may have missed it, but what gear range were you in? If you were in High, rather than low or mid range, there would certainly be less pull power...

OP said L.

 

[Jchonline]

I would check hydraulic fluid level first. Then ask dealer to perform a pressure test.

@boost2525 these are good suggestions. I forgot about check the fluid..yes if you haven't this is always a good idea. Also check for leaks. If you are storing the machine inside, any oil on the ground?

 

[Tire Biter]

You can’t drive into a pile of packed or wet soil or clay and expect it to curl it back. It’s a light duty loader period. You‘ll have to back a little and boom up then curl it back.
I can back drag with the bucket at any angle with no problems, as long as it ain’t in high, which I hardly ever use except for road travel.