Traveller Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid is Misleading!

[DLStryker]

First... my hydrostat trans is weak. Meaning tractor can struggle going up hill in high. The fix of that issue will be discussed in another thread.

The story... new to me B2400 tractor. Seemed to drive fine when I test drove it. Got it home and see that it had a drip leak from one of the hydro oil lines. Over a couple of weeks, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of hte hydrostatic oil in the case had dripped out. I do not know what oil was in the trans. I topped off the trans (again, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon) of Traveller Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid from Northern Tool Says on the back that is is a replacement for Kubota UDT oil. The tractor travelled about 10 yards until it came to a stop. Forward or reverse did not work. I drained all of the oil. Went to Kubota dealership and picked up Kubota Super UDT. Filled up the trans and the tractor moved forward and reverse as expected. So my point is that oil from Norther Tool is junk!! Now it may "work" in a new, tight tolerance trans, but it would not even move the tractor in my work HST.

I had bought this cheap stuff to use in filling the trans and identifying the source of the leak. Shocked the way it performed.

 

[mcfarmall]

Maybe not junk, but possibly a misapplication. That stuff works great in older tractors with common sump transmission and hydraulic systems, typically non-HST applications.

 

[85Hokie]

First... my hydrostat trans is weak. Meaning tractor can struggle going up hill in high. The fix of that issue will be discussed in another thread.

The story... new to me B2400 tractor. Seemed to drive fine when I test drove it. Got it home and see that it had a drip leak from one of the hydro oil lines. Over a couple of weeks, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of hte hydrostatic oil in the case had dripped out. I do not know what oil was in the trans. I topped off the trans (again, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon) of Traveller Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid from Northern Tool Says on the back that is is a replacement for Kubota UDT oil. The tractor travelled about 10 yards until it came to a stop. Forward or reverse did not work. I drained all of the oil. Went to Kubota dealership and picked up Kubota Super UDT. Filled up the trans and the tractor moved forward and reverse as expected. So my point is that oil from Norther Tool is junk!! Now it may "work" in a new, tight tolerance trans, but it would not even move the tractor in my work HST.

I had bought this cheap stuff to use in filling the trans and identifying the source of the leak. Shocked the way it performed.

As you have found out .... gonna say the good ol hard way - anyone can say their "stuff" is equal to or better than the OEM stuff.

With engine oil - specially the diesels, there are many companies that make an engine oil that meets all the specs, but when it comes to the HST models - I would not even place a teaspoon of the "other" stuff in a HST Kubota - simply not worth it. Now true Kubota does not make any of their oils, but somewhere in all of their specifications there must be something that is being used that make those HST model purr like a kitten - where as other brands add a little of this or don't have a little of that and it makes a hellva difference to the hydraulics inside.

As mentioned - the traveler oil is not junk, simple a universal that "meets" the specs of other companies OEM specs - great for the gears and piston hydraulics BUT NOT good for the HST.

Glad you got it "fixed" and working again!

 

[TheOldHokie]

First... my hydrostat trans is weak. Meaning tractor can struggle going up hill in high. The fix of that issue will be discussed in another thread.

The story... new to me B2400 tractor. Seemed to drive fine when I test drove it. Got it home and see that it had a drip leak from one of the hydro oil lines. Over a couple of weeks, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of hte hydrostatic oil in the case had dripped out. I do not know what oil was in the trans. I topped off the trans (again, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon) of Traveller Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid from Northern Tool Says on the back that is is a replacement for Kubota UDT oil. The tractor travelled about 10 yards until it came to a stop. Forward or reverse did not work. I drained all of the oil. Went to Kubota dealership and picked up Kubota Super UDT. Filled up the trans and the tractor moved forward and reverse as expected. So my point is that oil from Norther Tool is junk!! Now it may "work" in a new, tight tolerance trans, but it would not even move the tractor in my work HST.

I had bought this cheap stuff to use in filling the trans and identifying the source of the leak. Shocked the way it performed.

I doubt 2-3 quarts of Traveller UTTO mixed into 2+ gallons of whatever was in the tractor caused the transmission to stop working. You most likely had something else going on that was resolved when you did a complete drain and refill.

That said Kubota SUDT is a somewhat unique formulation and well matched to the specifics of your tractor. You will be hard pressed to find anything that will match or outperform it in that application. I have use Traveller in my gear drive Kubota for 20+ years with zero problems. The HSTs get SUDT.

Dan

 

[DLStryker]

I edited my original post to take word "junk" out of my thread title and replaced is with "misleading". Traveller may be fine for hydraulics, but it is not a replacement for Kubota HST oil like is says on the jug.

 

[ruger1980]

An HST is a hydraulic system. Is only a hydraulic pump and motor transferring energy from the crankshaft to the final drive of the tractor. It requires nothing in the line of "special" oils to work properly.

UDT or tractor fluids are designed with special characteristics to deal with the transmission and final drive gears as well as the friction material of wet brakes and transmission clutches used in some tractors. A hydrostatic drive is not really that picky and will operate fine on most any hydraulic oil and many other oils as well.

The Traveller Premium tractor fluid is what I use in my HST and it works fine. Before I bought the tractor it had used Mobil 424 for its entire life.

 

[mcfarmall]

Granted, this is a horse of a different color, but Hydro Gear HST transaxles use plain old SAE 30w motor oil.

 

[TheOldHokie]

An HST is a hydraulic system. Is only a hydraulic pump and motor transferring energy from the crankshaft to the final drive of the tractor. It requires nothing in the line of "special" oils to work properly.

UDT or tractor fluids are designed with special characteristics to deal with the transmission and final drive gears as well as the friction material of wet brakes and transmission clutches used in some tractors. A hydrostatic drive is not really that picky and will operate fine on most any hydraulic oil and many other oils as well.

The Traveller Premium tractor fluid is what I use in my HST and it works fine. Before I bought the tractor it had used Mobil 424 for its entire life.

I very much agree. The main advantages of OEM tractor transmission oils (aside from warranty concerns) like Kubota SUDT2, JD Hy-Gard Low Vis), Case Ultraction SSL, etc is an unusually high viscosity index and superior water tolerance. Those are measurable improvements over most commodity fluids but the long term advantages in general usage may well be negligible.

I have seen some VOAs for Traveller and Mobil 424 and the Mobil additive package certainly looks superior on paper. Any particular reason you switched?

Dan

 

[ruger1980]

I very much agree. The main advantages of OEM tractor transmission oils (aside from warranty concerns) like Kubota SUDT2, JD Hy-Gard Low Vis), Case Ultraction SSL, etc is an unusually high viscosity index and superior water tolerance. Those are measurable improvements over most commodity fluids but the long term advantages in general usage may well be negligible.

I have seen some VOAs for Traveller and Mobil 424 and the Mobil additive package certainly looks superior on paper. Any particular reason you switched?

Dan

I purchased the machine from a municipality. They used Mobil going from their records. My choice to use The Traveler brand is purely based on cost and availability.

As far as the viscosity index goes that depends on the base stocks used and the vii's used. I have not seen the VI of the OEM fluids and really not sure what the Traveler brand is.

UTTO's are designed to absorb or emulsify water and keep it in suspension rather than let it drop out or separate. This has it's advantages and disadvantages.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I purchased the machine from a municipality. They used Mobil going from their records. My choice to use The Traveler brand is purely based on cost and availability.

As far as the viscosity index goes that depends on the base stocks used and the vii's used. I have not seen the VI of the OEM fluids and really not sure what the Traveler brand is.

UTTO's are designed to absorb or emulsify water and keep it in suspension rather than let it drop out or separate. This has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Traditional UTTOs have an operational viscosity of 9.x cST@100C and a VI around 140. The major OEMs in this market (Kubota, Deere, Case, MF. et. al.) have all moved to transmission fluids with a slightly reduced operational viscosity (7.x cSt@100C) and very high viscosity index (approaching or exceeding 200). They are also engineered to absorb up to 5% water by weight and most are formulated with fully synthetic base stocks. The motivation for these formulations is improved water management, pumpability, and flow at low temperatures to reduce corrosion and wear and improve performance in their HST systems. I don't think there is any doubt they outperform the lower cost generics in that regard. There are quite a few third party products that can compete but they are priced similarly.

Here is the current datasheet for Super UDT2. The things that get my attention are the Brookfield viscosity and zinc/phosphorous content. This is a high performance lubricant with an old school anti-wear package.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

this... I do not know what oil was in the trans. is very important !!
You have NO idea what the previous owner was tossing into the tractor, possibly for years ... and mixing 'oils' is never rally a good idea. Toss lots of Ford tranny oil into your chevy to see why......
As for no power going up hill, I had a JD hydro unit do that(smoking deal...) .It had the WRONG oil in it and not much either. Removed, tore it down,added couple of parts, filled with Hydro makers recommended oil,purged, installed. Worked like brand new.

 

[lugbolt]

kubota only released one or two specifications for their super udt2 fluid. The size of the bucket and the fluid's color (to my knowledge).

So, Traveler's fluid meets those two specifications for the size of the container it comes in and perhaps it's the same color.

aside from an msds, there are/were no other specs released for super udt2 so it begs the question....what other specifications does traveler (or any other fluid) meeting

 

[ruger1980]

kubota only released one or two specifications for their super udt2 fluid. The size of the bucket and the fluid's color (to my knowledge).

So, Traveler's fluid meets those two specifications for the size of the container it comes in and perhaps it's the same color.

aside from an msds, there are/were no other specs released for super udt2 so it begs the question....what other specifications does traveler (or any other fluid) meeting

Have you ever spoken a lubrication engineer for an aftermarket oil manufacturer/blender? It is routine for the aftermarket to ask for the specs and for the OEM to share them.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Have you ever spoken a lubrication engineer for an aftermarket oil manufacturer/blender? It is routine for the aftermarket to ask for the specs and for the OEM to share them.

Kubota has shared quite a bit - just not in places where it is easily found. The table below documents UDT and SUDT.

We can add a column for SUDT2 containing the information in the Kubota product description I posted earlier and assume the performance of the other parameters is as good if not better.

KV40: 37cSt
KV100: 8.1 cSt
Viscosity Index: 199
Brookfield Viscosity: 16000cP @ -40C
Pour point -42C
Zinc: 1122 PPM


Dan

 

[dvcochran]

First... my hydrostat trans is weak. Meaning tractor can struggle going up hill in high. The fix of that issue will be discussed in another thread.

The story... new to me B2400 tractor. Seemed to drive fine when I test drove it. Got it home and see that it had a drip leak from one of the hydro oil lines. Over a couple of weeks, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of hte hydrostatic oil in the case had dripped out. I do not know what oil was in the trans. I topped off the trans (again, about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon) of Traveller Universal Tractor Trans/Hydraulic Fluid from Northern Tool Says on the back that is is a replacement for Kubota UDT oil. The tractor travelled about 10 yards until it came to a stop. Forward or reverse did not work. I drained all of the oil. Went to Kubota dealership and picked up Kubota Super UDT. Filled up the trans and the tractor moved forward and reverse as expected. So my point is that oil from Norther Tool is junk!! Now it may "work" in a new, tight tolerance trans, but it would not even move the tractor in my work HST.

I had bought this cheap stuff to use in filling the trans and identifying the source of the leak. Shocked the way it performed.

First, UDT and Super UDT are designed for different purposes. If your tractor is a Hydrostat it needs Super UDT.
Second, see how the tractor performs after the new oil has a couple hundred hours on it.
Third, I doubt a 1/2 gallon of Traveler's would make any difference and would come near thinking the tractor would not move because it was low of fluid. A leak is a leak and should be chased down.

 

[lugbolt]

Still don't have all the specifications.