Let'm die!

[Henro]

I don’t think that is true. People who are vaccinated can spread the virus just as well as anyone else. That’s why they recommend vaccinated to mask up as well. I also think many vaccinated people who wouldn’t be traveling have bought into the myths, so they are out acting like there is no pandemic anymore. It doesn’t help with politicians say “we have an unvaccinated pandemic”.

The main risk no matter if you vaccinated or not is being near other people. So, keeping your distance from other people is the only sure way to not be a threat.

Actually, it is claimed that for a vaccinated person to spread the virus, he has to be a breakthrough case, which is a relatively small percentage of total vaccinated people.

It looks like unvaccinated are a high percentage of infected people in hospitals, relative to the number there that are vaccinated. This indicates that proportionally, the unvaccinated will be spreading the virus more. BUT that was not the point.

Point was, that mostly unvaccinated are filling the hospitals as covid19 patients. One would expect if of that population more had been vaccinated, the unvaccinated would fill less beds than they do currently. (I realize this is kind of an oxymoron thought, as once vaccinated one is no longer unvaccinated).

So the net effect would be more beds and staff would be available to treat unrelated serious illnesses.

 

[Henro]

The main risk no matter if you vaccinated or not is being near other people. So, keeping your distance from other people is the only sure way to not be a threat.

Who can argue or deny this statement? Unfortunately not practical for most.

It is also the best way not to feel threatened, until you have an unrelated medical emergency.

 

[aaluck]

Point was, that mostly unvaccinated are filling the hospitals as covid19 patients. One would expect if of that population more had been vaccinated, the unvaccinated would fill less beds than they do currently. (I realize this is kind of an oxymoron thought, as once vaccinated one is no longer unvaccinated).

This is a FACT, despite what a person thinks about the vaccine. This is from UAB, a research hospital here in Alabama....

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WBRC) - New numbers released by UAB are giving us more insight into the COVID patients who have been admitted into the hospital.

UAB Medical West Hospital posted an informative graphic today, showing four vaccinated patients were in hospital beds, as compared to 38 unvaccinated patients.

10 of their 42 patients are on ventilators, all of them unvaccinated.

I do understand how folks may not want the vaccine and I don't care if someone gets it or not. But we, as intelligent tractor owners, cannot deny the science and studies as to those on vents and dying--they are without question overwhelmingly not vaccinated.

In this one small study 90% of hospitalizations and 100% vents are no vaccine.

 

[jimh406]

This is a FACT, despite what a person thinks about the vaccine.

You think it is a fact, but there could be other health factors involved.

 

[Henro]

You think it is a fact, but there could be other health factors involved.

Granted, there could be underlying factors that put people in the hospital, but a positive test for the corona virus is still a positive result.

Certainly possible to argue these people are suffering from issues unrelated to the virus. But such issues should be pretty much the same over time, and would not likely represent the current spike in hospitalizations.

 

[aaluck]

You think it is a fact, but there could be other health factors involved.

Lets assume you are right...this actually makes the study that much more impressive. Its usually the young, healthy, 'I can't get sick', 'its just the flu' folks that don't get the shot. Conversely, people with underlying conditions are more likely to get the shot.

That being said 0% of the 'unhealthy, underlying condition, vaccinated people' are on vents. It's the 'healthy unvaccinated folks' taking up 90% of the beds and 100% of the vents.

 

[jimh406]

Lets assume you are right...this actually makes the study that much more impressive. Its usually the young, healthy, 'I can't get sick', 'its just the flu' folks that don't get the shot. Conversely, people with underlying conditions are more likely to get the shot.

That being said 0% of the 'unhealthy, underlying condition, vaccinated people' are on vents. It's the 'healthy unvaccinated folks' taking up 90% of the beds and 100% of the vents.

The biggest demographic that hasn’t been getting the vaccines are blacks and hispanics. They are also one of the groups at the most at risk for complications.

Likewise, many of those who are getting the vaccine are those at least risk because they are relatively healthy and see the Dr regularly. Covid, like many illnesses that affect the lungs, is more of a risk if you don’t take care of yourself after you are exposed.

That being said 100% of those who will have short or long term complications or die from the vaccine are those who get the vaccine. It still depends on which set of risks you want to take.

Considering we are still talking about a relatively small number of people going to the hospital, I don’t think who in the worst shape is at all significant with relation to the vaccine. Instead, I think it has more to do with what they do after they get infected. I would guess that those who get the vaccine have better care after being exposed, and therefore, are least likely to get in horrible shape.

You probably know a lot of people who have had the flu. Some of those, end up with pneumonia because once they feel sick they keep going. Maybe because they feel like they have to work, or because they really have to with no sick leave.

More focus on treatment early is still the best way to keep people out of the hospital no matter if they are vaccinated or not.

 

[JimmyJazz]

My neighbor contracted the covid virus over a year ago ,before there was vaccine available. She is probably 50 years old ,thin and had been excellent health. She told me last week that her memory is not what it was pre covid, she gets tired all the time and frequently gets "monster headaches" again the likes of which she hadn't experienced before. I know the chance of dying from covid for most is remote and some prefer not liking anyone telling them what to do for whatever reason. Imagine the scenario where you give frequent "Monster Headaches" to a family member perhaps for the rest of their life. You have to be mighty selfish not to take advantage of all that science has given us.

 

[jimh406]

Imagine the scenario where you give frequent "Monster Headaches" to a family member perhaps for the rest of their life. You have to be mighty selfish not to take advantage of all that science has given us.

Keep in mind that people who got the vaccine have their own version of monster headaches. For instance, my sister-in-law that I previously noted has had a sore arm for 6 months.

Also, as noted, people who are vaccinated are still being requested to wear masks, so that means they can spread the virus. So, really, selfish doesn’t factor into it although many think it does.

 

[D2Cat]

It doesn't have to be as complicated as it's being made to be.

 

[D2Cat]

 

[Nicfin36]

You know those drugs recalled by the FDA which turned out to be harmful? Guess who had approved them.

 

[MOTOROLANUT]

You know those drugs recalled by the FDA which turned out to be harmful? Guess who had approved them.

As I always say follow the money folks.....The truth will set you free.

 

[Henro]

As I always say follow the money folks.....The truth will set you free.

Following the money can help one see what might be going on, I believe that too.

So it follows that if the drug manufacturers and the health care providers are the ones raking in the dollars, one might then assume that somehow they are in cahoots and really somehow secretly working in tandem, and promoting the pandemic, rather than trying to resolve it.

Would this be a reasonable conclusion?

 

[Henro]

View attachment 65462

The NIH Department of BioEthics is NOT a company, it is a department of the National Institute of Health (NIH).

THIS is just another example of misinformation being circulated...and believed by those who do not question...

 

[jimh406]

The NIH Department of BioEthics is NOT a company, it is a department of the National Institute of Health (NIH).

THIS is just another example of misinformation being circulated...and believed by those who do not question...

You are just being silly now. They mistyped. Of course, it doesn’t matter if it is a company or not. The point was she was the head and also married to Fauci.

 

[jimh406]

So it follows that if the drug manufacturers and the health care providers are the ones raking in the dollars, one might then assume that somehow they are in cahoots and really somehow secretly working in tandem, and promoting the pandemic, rather than trying to resolve it.

They both have something to gain by promoting the pandemic. Of course, they aren’t the only groups that benefit. Politicians are enjoying their power and catering to who they think their base is by giving away money, and teacher’s unions are happy to give their members extended paid vacations.

Of course, there was and still is a political motivation for some to change rules to help their position and try to blame the other party.

 

[aaluck]

The biggest demographic that hasn’t been getting the vaccines are blacks and hispanics. They are also one of the groups at the most at risk for complications.

Please look at post #11, page 1. I made this exact point. I will agree with you on this 100%.

 

[Old_Paint]

Also, you could be like many that show no symptoms, and could be the reason so many people near you got Covid.

BINGO!!! Give that man a cookie. Some people are a asymptomatic, i.e. never show any symptoms. So how in Hell are you supposed to know when and where you got it so that you can help stop the spread by notifying who you got it from? Absolutely, masking helps mitigate the spread by putting your sneezing or coughing in a snot rag instead of on bystanders. But the N95 mask barely stops dirt clods, let alone a microscopic virus, so all the CDC is doing by saying that the N95 is protecting the wearers is misinformation. I’ve been there done that with masking up for chemical and biohazard dangers. Nothing short of a clean-shaven face and and M-41 mask, or positive pressure full-blown hazmat suit is going to protect you from a virus. A piece of cloth or breathable paper is not going to stop it from coming in. Period.

As I always say follow the money folks.....The truth will set you free.

Save a cookie for MOTO, too.

Big pharma isn't doing anything for free. There's no profit in well people not needing medicine. Neither is Fauci. He's making millions, so I question the level of his actual concern for the people, and the higher level of concern about what his next yacht is gonna look like. He's getting stupid rich on this, and so is Big Pharma. So, follow the money. If everyone suddenly being well was going to wipe you out financially, wouldn't you prefer some of them stay sick?

My take from all this is that neither side of the argument is 100% accurate according to the other side, but they're more than ready to point out how wrong the other side is. Almost like religion, in a way. Every religion says all the others are wrong. My logical way of thinking says "If they're all wrong, then who's right?" Guess we'll know that in the end of times, but it's starting to look like the Chinese have the upper hand at the moment. Zero cases since November of last year, huh? In the country where this crap came from? SURE. And I got some prize swampland for sale in the Mojave desert.

There is so much confusion and misinformation right now, it's nearly impossible to wade through what is real fact, what is media hype, and what is government fear mongering. Different doctors/experts/pundits/talking heads with differing opinions add to the flux, and all this is serving to do is divide a once united nation that couldn't be beat even by destroying 2/3's of it's Navy in a single day, or killing 2000+ civilians in another single day. As long as we let politicians divide us, the media misinform us with impunity, and the very people that are supposed to represent us to instead confine, control, and mute us, our society and way of life can only decline into either subjugation and oppression, or worse yet, enslavement by those powers that are on the climb. We need to get our collective sh** in one sock, and solve this problem without all the talking heads and money makers influencing the outcome.

 

[Henro]

You are just being silly now. They mistyped. Of course, it doesn’t matter if it is a company or not. The point was she was the head and also married to Fauci.

They mistyped? Time to get real...they intentionally claimed a department in the NIH was a company, for the obvious reasons...