New to the site, first post

[Hot Rod]

Hello everyone, I have a B2620 with loader and backhoe plus clamp on forks and an underbelly mower.
My question is, The control for the loader is so sensitive I can't make slow movements with it, I move the lever slowly and all of a sudden the bucket jerks up 6 to 8 inches.
I know these smaller tractors are made to move dirt and not do precision work, but is there a valve I can install or install reduced orifices to slow the fluid down?
I have lubed the heck out of the control handle where it contacts the valves, maybe I have used the wrong lube.
It feels like it could be in the valve body as I apply pressure on the lever it flexes then moves quickly opening the valve rapidly causing the jerky movement.
My backhoe doesn't respond this way.

Thank you for your time and help, much appreciated!

Ron

 

[nbryan]

My B2650 loader valves are jumpy too. I, or another ott member posted a thread on this somewhere here I think. I did the same, made sure the mechanisms were or at least appeared to be tight, wiped down and lubed with Fluid Film, and with 650+ hours and 3 1/2 years old it still wants to jump unless I use both arms and brace carefully. Another answer is to slow the rpm down for delicate engagement then boost it back up to actually lift. It's a pita but by now I expect it and operate accordingly.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

very common, my BX23S is the same.
you can reduce RPMs,but then you lose lift capacity and of course time.....
if you brace your arm you can slowly move the lever, which will help
I'm not aware of any Kubota official 'bolt in replacement' though it CAN be reengineered to be 'slow and smooth'. Perhaps as simple as a different spool valve ? Only takes time and money.
After 3 years I'm better at loader operations, but it's no where near as smooth as my forklift or the A-C D14 loader. If I was really,really bothered, I'd just go electric over hydraulic, spend $100 and be done with it.

 

[nbryan]

LX2610 how to slow loader drop? | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

 

[Goz63]

Actually you don’t lose lift capacity by slowing rpms. It just has the hydraulic pump flow slower and that has the loader move slower. The lift capacity is by the pump not horse power or rpms of the machine. lower your rpms and see if that doesn’t give you a little more control until you get more comfortable with the controls.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Hello everyone, I have a B2620 with loader and backhoe plus clamp on forks and an underbelly mower.
My question is, The control for the loader is so sensitive I can't make slow movements with it, I move the lever slowly and all of a sudden the bucket jerks up 6 to 8 inches.
I know these smaller tractors are made to move dirt and not do precision work, but is there a valve I can install or install reduced orifices to slow the fluid down?
I have lubed the heck out of the control handle where it contacts the valves, maybe I have used the wrong lube.
It feels like it could be in the valve body as I apply pressure on the lever it flexes then moves quickly opening the valve rapidly causing the jerky movement.
My backhoe doesn't respond this way.

Thank you for your time and help, much appreciated!

Ron

Welcome to Orange Tractor Talks.
This is a friendly place with a ton of helpful guys.

 

[nbryan]

Actually you don’t lose lift capacity by slowing rpms. It just has the hydraulic pump flow slower and that has the loader move slower. The lift capacity is by the pump not horse power or rpms of the machine. lower your rpms and see if that doesn’t give you a little more control until you get more comfortable with the controls.

I find that my last few hundred pounds loader capacity at least will not lift at all at lower rpms like under 1500 or so, and will lift slowly after bumping up the rpm to 2000+. I have experimented using firewood drying pallets and loading with green firewood until the forks will just barely lift it to take it to dry in the shed. At 1200-1500 rpm no lift. At 2500 rpm, can raise.
So in my experience, with my B2650, rpm does indeed have an effect on the lifting capacity of my loader.

 

[Goz63]

I find that my last few hundred pounds loader capacity at least will not lift at all at lower rpms like under 1500 or so, and will lift slowly after bumping up the rpm to 2000+. I have experimented using firewood drying pallets and loading with green firewood until the forks will just barely lift it to take it to dry in the shed. At 1200-1500 rpm no lift. At 2500 rpm, can raise.
So in my experience, with my B2650, rpm does indeed have an effect on the lifting capacity of my loader.

Take a look at Messick’s videos on this subject. He talks extensively on this. Not denied your anecdotal experience but the engineering does not support that.

 

[Creature Meadow]

Welcome to OTT from NC.

On my L4600 the higher the RPM's the more sensitive the front end loader is, "jumpy you might say.

Have a great day OTT!

Jay

 

[Tx Jim]

I once owned a M4900 with a FEL that I handled 4X5.5 rd bales that was very sensitive when lowering rd bales on frt end loader bale spear. I installed an adjustable valve similar to photo below in boom hyd circuit. Problem solved. My M7040 /FEL that I traded the M4900 for doesn't exhibit that sensitive hyd control problem

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Well 'engineering' may not support the FACT, but just as NB reported, my BX23S will NOT lift heavy weight at 1500 RPM, kick up the throttle to 2500, and up it goes.
The ONLY change in the system was RPMs. I've done this 'test' 1,000s of times in 3 + years ,seems pretty conclusive,especially as others have posted similar findings.

 

[Goz63]

Well I will defer to Neil as he has forgotten more about tractors than most of us will ever know. He disputes your “fact”. But the OP was not about maxing out your loader and lifting with lower rpms it was about it being very sensitive and jerking. Lowering the rpms does in fact slow the loader and reduces the speed of the flow. That is a fact. For those getting the feel for the loader it is a great way to get started.

 

[GeoHorn]

To accomplish WORK* requires both pressure AND FLOW…and Neil‘s demonstration that Pressure is relatively constant at the pump output does not by itself accomplish Work because the Flow is insufficent at low RPM to Recover capability. He actually states that very thing.
He also acknowledges that work accomplished at higher RPMs …which may not be accomplished at lower RPMs …..is a common experience.
I’ve also witnessed this with my M4700/LA1002 combination. I removed an R-panel roof and stacked them aside in two stacks…later giving the panels to a friend. We could not lift one of the stacks at idle….yet by increasing RPM with the hand-throttle the loader could lift it. This was due to the Recovery/Increase of Flow at higher RPM.

*Work is energy applied resulting in movement. If energy is applied to an object but the object does not move then no work is accomplished.
FACT can be different for different people. It can be FACT that an object did not move at idle but did at high RPM ….and also can be FACT that hydraulic pressure is the same at idle or at high RPM. But no WORK occurred until that object moved.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Well 'engineering' may not support the FACT, but just as NB reported, my BX23S will NOT lift heavy weight at 1500 RPM, kick up the throttle to 2500, and up it goes.
The ONLY change in the system was RPMs. I've done this 'test' 1,000s of times in 3 + years ,seems pretty conclusive,especially as others have posted similar findings.

The BX23S doesn't have dual pumps like the other tractors.

I find it odd people are complaining, Kubota hydraulics are slow compared to other makers.

 

[nbryan]

forgotten more about tractors than most of us will ever know.

Hmm. Not sure what this means.

And you saying " Actually you don’t lose lift capacity by slowing rpms " sounds fine, until I lose lift capacity when I slow my tractor's rpms.

I'm no expert. Just relating my experience.

No need to tear me down, just trying to help.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Hmm. Not sure what this means.

And you saying " Actually you don’t lose lift capacity by slowing rpms " sounds fine, until I lose lift capacity when I slow my tractor's rpms.

I'm no expert. Just relating my experience.

No need to tear me down, just trying to help.

You could have a worn pump.Or relief valve.Clogged filter.
Put a gauge on it.

 

[ItBmine]

I also have a B2620. Mine was pretty smooth back when it was new, but now that I have moved over 330 metric tonne of gravel with it (I know because I hauled it all home with my dump truck) and after 8 years of doing snow all winter I notice mine has gotten stiffer and jumpier.

As others have said, when I am doing work with the forks I just lower the RPM.

Other thing to check is make sure the two little bolts that hold your joystick on....make sure they are tight.
I had issues with mine always coming loose which would cause just a little bit of wiggle that takes away feel at the joystick. I ended up putting some Loc-Tite on mine.

I also had the weld crack on the original joystick.

Sometimes it feels like a valve body problem.....but turns out to be those two bolts or a cracked weld.

 

[kubotasam]

I once owned a M4900 with a FEL that I handled 4X5.5 rd bales that was very sensitive when lowering rd bales on frt end loader bale spear. I installed an adjustable valve similar to photo below in boom hyd circuit. Problem solved. My M7040 /FEL that I traded the M4900 for doesn't exhibit that sensitive hyd control problem

I'm with Tx Jim. Install adjustable flow control valve to limit the downward movement of the loader boom. I put one on b2410. Made a world of difference when trying to smoothly lower a heavy load.

 

[Hot Rod]

Thank you everyone for the replies, I do idle my engine down when I want to do fine work and I do press the lever against my leg to inch it forward, but I still get quick jerky movement.
I may try the reduced valve and use a ball valve so I can do a quick adjustment while I work.
Thanks itBmine, I will check those bolts and I may remove the lever and clean it plus check for wear.
I have moved over 450 yards of dirt plus several years of scraping, grading, and digging with that front loader.

Thanks again fellas for your suggestions and expertise, I really appreciate it.
I just turned 75 and the old brain ain't what it used to be Ha!Ha!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

There is a basic 'problem' with these 'do-everything' tractors. COMPROMISE !! The manufacturer has to decide how much R&D time, materials,engineering,etc. to get functions to be 'ok'. I see a LOT of guys use a MMM on their BX23S, but I never will ,so to me ,it'd been nice if K had used the MMM time, to smooth out the loader controls. Same with the 3PH. Though I have one,in the box, somewhere in the garage, I've never installed it...one day..maybe. but again, K could have used 3PH time to get the loader smoooth....
Now other guys may never used the loader, so K 'should' have spent loader time to make the MMM better, fo them....
It's all about compromise..making a 'Swiss Army Knife' tractor....some 'give and take' has to be done.
My forklift,is ,well a FORKLIFT...so Allis-Chalmers spent a LOT of time getting the control smooth and silky. Even after 5 decades ,it still is smoooooth to lift and tilt.
If you get the RPMs just right, brace your right arm just so ,and hold your tongue in the right place, you can get reasonably good loader operations.Oh yeah, practice... lots and lots of practice...2-3 hrs a day for a month and you'll get the hang of it, maybe....