How good is alternate energy?

[D2Cat]

I am amazed how the LED lights are advertised to last thousands of hours, and in a few years those hours must be consumed because they quit!!!

 

[mikester]

Do you have any proof of this? All forms of energy come at a cost and yet there is no hard line as to what is good energy or bad energy. Solar farms waste good farm land are ugly and limited in power, wind farms are just not feasible in many locations. Enviromentalist do not like hydro electric. Nuclear energy has its own set of problems with production and waste disposal.

Every one on the green side wants to condemn fossil fuels. They better take a look at all the things that come from fossil fuels. How many will give up their a/c and heated home? All that lithium for the batteries is not without its own problems How about the fresh produce found in the supermarket? For the heck of it how many will give up the super market all together. Amazon might say they are going to electric trucks to save the plant but wouldn't the earth be better off if Amazon just stop selling unneeded products? Shut the lights off in the cities.

This is a very complex problem that is not solve by the PC statements that fossil fuels are bad and we must stop using them. Most people enjoy the standard of life that the fossil fuels allow us to enjoy. Giving them up will give a very different standard of life that we will not enjoy.

The key is to change behaviour and focus on conservation instead of hoping pie-in-the-sky miracles of alternate energy will save the day.

Most people do not need a 5 ton 4WD V8 SUV as a single person commuter car. A heat pump will struggle to heat/cool a poorly designed and built house.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as common sense. It's more important to satisfy WANTS instead of NEEDS.

Our Canadian government would rather implement a carbon TAX instead of simply mandating conservation and energy efficiency standards. You can't fix stupid with more stupid.

 

[jimh406]

Most people do not need a 5 ton 4WD V8 SUV as a single person commuter car.

Of course, none weigh 5 tons, but you’ve mentioned part of the problem. People are looking for simplistic answers that meet their idealistic views. Based on your comments, I think you’d be surprised how little emissions are produced by most vehicles after the mid 90s.

I once commuted to work with a full size SUV. I drove 28 miles a week to work assuming I worked 7 days which I normally did during that time. My coworker drove 20 times that much because he chose to buy a house farther away. Even though he drove a small car, he used more fuel than I did … obviously. I reminded him of that fact when he mentioned what he called my gas guzzler.

My wife used that SUV to take kids to school events like field trips and every one of the 8 seats was filled. We also used it to pull a TT and boat at times. But, the simplistic view would be that “guy” doesn’t need a SUV to commute.

 

[Oliver]

My friend who works at DOE recently told me this was directed to Department of Energy from the current administration, "from here on avoid using the word coal, it is now to be referred to as carbon oar."

 

[Jchonline]

Of course, none weigh 5 tons, but you’ve mentioned part of the problem. People are looking for simplistic answers that meet their idealistic views. Based on your comments, I think you’d be surprised how little emissions are produced by most vehicles after the mid 90s.

I once commuted to work with a full size SUV. I drove 28 miles a week to work assuming I worked 7 days which I normally did during that time. My coworker drove 20 times that much because he chose to buy a house farther away. Even though he drove a small car, he used more fuel than I did … obviously. I reminded him of that fact when he mentioned what he called my gas guzzler.

My wife used that SUV to take kids to school events like field trips and every one of the 8 seats was filled. We also used it to pull a TT and boat at times. But, the simplistic view would be that “guy” doesn’t need a SUV to commute.

Totally agree. I have a F250 diesel but I only have 12k miles on it in 4 years. I actually pollute less than my neighbors in the city with Teslas because I am off grid, but they have to charge their cars daily with the fossil fuel power plants....They are speechless when I explain this to them.

They also never think about their power consumption...leave lights on, go by anything that plugs in with disregard for how much power it consumes...it never crosses their minds. Those things all add to pollution when you are powered by fossil fuel plants. They love to bring up the solar panels on their roofs...but I remind them peak consumption is when they get home from work....charging their 100KWH car battery, running the AC, kicking up all of the appliances.....none of it is solar powered at 5pm. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

 

[johnjk]

I would like to do alternative energy for my home but…. Cost of acquisition, payback, lifespan…. Always windy here so my system would most likely be a mix of wind power and solar with a battery bank (Tesla power wall?). My electric costs to keep the wife happy average 200/mo in the summer and 120 in the winter. Heat is done by propane and usage is around 800 gal/yr or around $1K annually (prebuy at a discount). Our coop electric company just sent out a letter stating no rate, transmission or other cost increases with getting us power this year.

My big concern is the long term outage. I can cover that with a generator and another 500-1000 gal propane tank for $8K where the solar/ wind solution would be at least 3x that if not more BUT, if shtf I wouldn’t be without power when the propane ran out. Got to weigh that out and be comfortable with the end decision.

 

[hope to float]

They've been doing some work with wave energy around here. They have found that the more efficient the machine is; the more impact it has on the shoreline. Apparently, the seaweeds and fish that live there need the waves to crash onto the rocks. If the wave energy machine is super efficient then the water inside it becomes too still. Different seaweeds grow and the whole ecosystem of the shore is changed.

 

[Freeheeler]

I haven't read thru the entire cluster so I don't know if it's been mentioned before. My house heat/air conditioning is geothermal based. Works great, saves a ton of money, and since it uses so much less energy is better for the environment in the long run. Makes me feel better as I kick in the twin turbos to blow by that electric car

 

[RCW]

Back at post #22, I explained how some of the Community Solar and Wind projects have effected Upstate New York. A couple later, Tughill Tom mentioned the same.

We got yet another invitation to "enroll" from a community solar to save 5% on our electricity supply today.

I keep close track of our electric supply cost. We're a variable rate with NYSEG, our local utility. On average, our supply runs about $0.04-0.05/kwh. Delivery (NYSEG) adds another $0.04+, and is increasing. So, about 9 cents to the house.....

It's been a few years, but my memory says the "savings" are generated by a myriad of credits for the solar farms, including their developers and manufacturers of the panels themselves. Those supply credits are established annually, and last I recall were in the $0.08-0.09 range. No one will ever know how much the manufacturer credit is.....

My only point is that this whole green energy supply infrastructure is government supported....remember those credits are set annually???

Lacking that, the cost of green energy will likely increase cost to the end-user by 100's of percents.

I could easily see 300-500%+.

All a product of a government's house of cards.....

Trust me, I'm not adverse to green energy, but the economics and social impacts have to make sense as well.

This isn't my choice of putting panels on my roof.....

In a rural area like ours, it's whether I want 300 acres of panels next to my house....a 400' wind tower next to my house...my farmer-friend being bought out because he can't make ends meet, so his 1,000 acres are all panels...they'll never make milk or hay again.

All without anyone local having a say, because the State took that "say" away.....

Within 10 years, rural areas in Upstate New York will look very different, and agriculture will be the loser.....

If the government support stops, we'll have 1,000's of acres of panels and towers, with LLC's left and right that dissolve. Noone will be responsible for those, except the government again.......the local government, to clean up and dispose of....what will that do to your taxes?!?!?

 

[random]

Most people do not need a 5 ton 4WD V8 SUV as a single person commuter car. A heat pump will struggle to heat/cool a poorly designed and built house.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as common sense. It's more important to satisfy WANTS instead of NEEDS.

That's a rather treacherous slope there if we focus on NEED vs WANT. You don't NEED anything other than a shack and "sufficient" food. NEED is survival. There are people advocating for exactly that.

 

[Jchonline]

Back at post #22, I explained how some of the Community Solar and Wind projects have effected Upstate New York. A couple later, Tughill Tom mentioned the same.

We got yet another invitation to "enroll" from a community solar to save 5% on our electricity supply today.

I keep close track of our electric supply cost. We're a variable rate with NYSEG, our local utility. On average, our supply runs about $0.04-0.05/kwh. Delivery (NYSEG) adds another $0.04+, and is increasing. So, about 9 cents to the house.....

It's been a few years, but my memory says the "savings" are generated by a myriad of credits for the solar farms, including their developers and manufacturers of the panels themselves. Those supply credits are established annually, and last I recall were in the $0.08-0.09 range. No one will ever know how much the manufacturer credit is.....

My only point is that this whole green energy supply infrastructure is government supported....remember those credits are set annually???

Lacking that, the cost of green energy will likely increase cost to the end-user by 100's of percents.

I could easily see 300-500%+.

All a product of a government's house of cards.....

Trust me, I'm not adverse to green energy, but the economics and social impacts have to make sense as well.

This isn't my choice of putting panels on my roof.....

In a rural area like ours, it's whether I want 300 acres of panels next to my house....a 400' wind tower next to my house...my farmer-friend being bought out because he can't make ends meet, so his 1,000 acres are all panels...they'll never make milk or hay again.

All without anyone local having a say, because the State took that "say" away.....

Within 10 years, rural areas in Upstate New York will look very different, and agriculture will be the loser.....

If the government support stops, we'll have 1,000's of acres of panels and towers, with LLC's left and right that dissolve. Noone will be responsible for those, except the government again.......the local government, to clean up and dispose of....what will that do to your taxes?!?!?

The thing is we have to completely rethink how we create, store, and use energy in this country. There would be no need for 1000 acres of solar panels on 1 property if every single home and business had panels on the roof. Just doing this provides more than enough power to run everything and then some when the sun is out. So creating the energy is really easy. I don't even think we really need wind farms.

Next how do we store the excess energy produced? Sure we would still be on fossil fuels in the evenings...thats the next challenge. Lithium batteries just aren't good enough for large scale use. We need entirely new storage technology. Hydroelectric is geographically specific, very expensive, very long to build, and is impacted by rainfall...so not really a good solution for many places. We need something new.

Lastly is energy USE. As a society we are absolute energy gluts. We take it for granted that we can flip a switch and things run...most of us have no idea how many watts a give item uses. Heck most manufacturers don't even publish this. All a symptom of our real lack of energy consciousness. We have to get better at use and conservation. We need to educate ourselves on consumption, we need to change our habits to use energy when we have excess and save it when there isn't.

All of these things together can help the US work into a sustainable energy future...sure it may take us 100 years to figure out a new storage technology...but fossil fuels won't last forever. Can you imagine the world in 200 years when fossil fuels are scarce? We need a pivot long before that day arrives.

 

[random]

There would be no need for 1000 acres of solar panels on 1 property if every single home and business had panels on the roof. Just doing this provides more than enough power to run everything and then some when the sun is out. So creating the energy is really easy. I don't even think we really need wind farms.

How does that work in cities with 50-story office buildings and apartment buildings with several hundred tenants though?

And where do the materials to build them come from?

 

[RCW]

The thing is we have to completely rethink how we create, store, and use energy in this country. There would be no need for 1000 acres of solar panels on 1 property if every single home and business had panels on the roof. Just doing this provides more than enough power to run everything and then some when the sun is out. So creating the energy is really easy. I don't even think we really need wind farms.

Lastly is energy USE. As a society we are absolute energy gluts.

How does that work in cities with 50-story office buildings and apartment buildings with several hundred tenants though?

And where do the materials to build them come from?

It's a problem way above my pay grade.

My only point is that in my 'hood we're seeing those 1,000's of acres of panels, and huge wind turbine projects. Although currently governmentally supported, what happens when/if that support goes?

Those projects are often converting viable agricultural property, in the realm of 1,000's of acres per year.....

We are seeing our neighborhoods being altered greatly by those installations...those converted agricultural acres will never be commercial agriculture again.

Trust me, I do hear the "NIMBY" tone of my concern. My NIMBY slant is not driven by the solar panels.

It's driven by the loss of the corn/hay/soybean field, many acres at a time, along with the farmer that worked those fields.

Through trickle-down economics, that farmer generates much more wealth locally than any electricity generated and shipped by wire to other locales....

 

[lynnmor]

My only point is that in my 'hood we're seeing those 1,000's of acres of panels, and huge wind turbine projects. Although currently governmentally supported, what happens when/if that support goes?

Those projects are often converting viable agricultural property, in the realm of 1,000's of acres per year.....

We are seeing our neighborhoods being altered greatly by those installations...those converted agricultural acres will never be commercial agriculture again.

I would hope that the property taxes would be the full amount and not be at a reduced amount like most agriculture land. That way the recipients of the electricity can help with the schools and other rural needs.

 

[Jchonline]

It's a problem way above my pay grade.

My only point is that in my 'hood we're seeing those 1,000's of acres of panels, and huge wind turbine projects. Although currently governmentally supported, what happens when/if that support goes?

Those projects are often converting viable agricultural property, in the realm of 1,000's of acres per year.....

We are seeing our neighborhoods being altered greatly by those installations...those converted agricultural acres will never be commercial agriculture again.

Trust me, I do hear the "NIMBY" tone of my concern. My NIMBY slant is not driven by the solar panels.

It's driven by the loss of the corn/hay/soybean field, many acres at a time, along with the farmer that worked those fields.

Through trickle-down economics, that farmer generates much more wealth locally than any electricity generated and shipped by wire to other locales....

My point is its a huge waste….we should just be putting panels on houses/barns/businesses and leaving the agricultural land alone. We really don’t need it. 12KWH of panels on a standard home that would only use maybe 30KW in a day…tons of excess. Just need the storage.

 

[Jchonline]

Windows can also gather solar energy….you would just have solar panels on the sides of a skyscraper. Here is the issue. You are still thinking the wrong way. Building A is no longer responsible for their usage. It is a decentralized, destributed grid. There will be Tons of excess energy. More than enough for the skyscraper to have all the power it needs. Now the issue is storage…which I previously stated is still a challenge. We aren’t there yet.

 

[eserv]

My point is its a huge waste….we should just be putting panels on houses/barns/businesses and leaving the agricultural land alone. We really don’t need it. 12KWH of panels on a standard home that would only use maybe 30KW in a day…tons of excess. Just need the storage.

It's almost like they are doing it to spark controversy!

 

[D2Cat]

 

[Jchonline]

View attachment 63112

And boy are they good at falling apart. I really hate these things.

 

[Jchonline]

I am amazed how the LED lights are advertised to last thousands of hours, and in a few years those hours must be consumed because they quit!!!

Like everything else I have good and bad LEDs. Some last years. I still have some of the first Phillips LEDs that ever came out.

Philips unveils world's first LED replacement for most common household light bulb

Date Announced: 14 May 2010 LAS VEGAS -- Royal Philips Electronics has unveiled its 12 watt EnduraLED light bulb, the industry's first LED replacement for a 60 watt incandescent...

www.ledsmagazine.com

These are the bulbs…I have had them since 2010 so 11 years now. I bought 8 of them and all 8 are still working perfectly. They are in our master bathroom and bedroom, so get used for hours a day.

I have had other LEDs die in a year.