Synthetic or Conventional motor oil in Kubota diesels

[TheOldHokie]

They are also very committed to performing radical cashectomies upon my wallet for scheduled maintenance tasks.

You miss my point entirely. Try and read the original post

15w-40 Dino Oil is, today, pretty darn good oil.

However, 5w-40 Synthetic is just simply better at everything. Everything.

It starts moving faster, so it gets to vital engine parts sooner. It will allow your engine to run cooler, it gets up to operating temperature faster, it lasts longer, it resists viscosity break-down due to high heat better, it will give you better fuel economy..... Everything about it is better if you have a good engine.

If your engine is a leaker, it gets old spending the bucks for Syn. If it rattles and is on its last legs...... Just use whatever.

But for a new engine? Syn is the only way to go, IMHO. But 15w-40 isn't a bad oil unless you're operating anywhere near 0 degrees F. Especially on some of the newer engines that like to go into regen unexpectedly.

Regardless of viscosity grade the physical and chemical properties of synthetic oil are superior to conventional oil. A modern conventional is almost always blended using a Group II base stock. Its sole advantage is cost. It requires more additives and viscosity improvers to do an inferior job. You can argue cost benefit but you cannot argue performance. That horse left the barn decades ago.

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

Regular ol Kubota oil here! At 100 hours a year and oil changed yearly I dont need synthetic! If I had a farm tractor that I put hundreds of hours per year and pound the you know what out of It I would use synthetic!

 

[Glenn S]

I have used Mobil1 5/30 for decades in gas engine company vehicles for close to 2 million miles of driving and have never had an ounce of trouble. They ran 6 days a week from -40 to 110F
Every diesel I have has Rotella T6 0-40, it's a bit more in cost than 5-40 but it provides the best hot and cold weather protection. Engine repairs are just too damn expensive to use anything else.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Regular ol Kubota oil here! At 100 hours a year and oil changed yearly I dont need synthetic! If I had a farm tractor that I put hundreds of hours per year and pound the you know what out of It I would use synthetic!

What does it say on this Kubota engine oil label? All Kubota cares about is the service classification (currently API CF) and OCI. How it is blended is of no concern.

Dan

 

[ManBitesDog]

Well, I'm not talking about engines blowing up in a cloud of smoke or putting a rod through your engine block from using the wrong oil. Even though that does happen.

I'm more concerned about longevity. Buddy of mine has always used dino oil in his old chevy p/u. Got 150k on it and that ain't bad for what it is.

He got dusted by a UPS truck from a light the other day.

Engines lose power over time. Just a fact of life. Why? Lots of reasons..... Deposits, valve wear and leakage, ring wear and compression loss, even deposits in the intake runners.

Synthetic runs cleaner.

He had no idea his engine had lost that much power. People seldom do. Runs okay, maybe smokes a little, starts good, no major knocking or clicking. Top end sounds good. But he lost a lot of power over the years.

Drive a car that's run nothing but Syn for the last 20 years then get in one that runs whatever AdvanceAuto has on sale. There's a difference.

I'm not obsessive about it. I buy all different brands of Syn for my diesel truck just like I did for my prior gassers.

I can tell you from experience, there's a difference over time. You can feel it.

 

[BruceP]

I can tell you from experience, there's a difference over time. You can feel it.

People who actually OPEN UP engines and see the internals can tell you there is a difference.

• Engines run on dyno oil for life often have 1/2 inch of "tar" on all internal surfaces.
• Engines run on synthetic oil just have a thin layer of residue.

The layer of 'tar' is remnmants from the dyno oil breaking down.

----------------
Another thing not yet mentioned is the TURBOCHARGER. The turbo bearings are the hottest area the oil flows through and is known to cook dyno oil. (known as "coking" when the oil converts into solid carbon) Synthetic oil, with its engineered chemistry, can withstand many 100F more before it starts to turn into coke.

This is the very reason that ALL turbocharged engines should be allowed to idle for several minutes before shutting down. This allows the turbo bearings to cool down by flowing oil thru them. (coaking can happen AFTER engine is shut down and the oil sits in hot turbocharger)

As mentioned several times in this discussion.... synthetic oil is NOT 'more slippery'. Instead, it can withstand much wider thermal environments without getting too thin or breaking down.

 

[leveraddict]

What does it say on this Kubota engine oil label? All Kubota cares about is the service classification (currently API CF) and OCI. How it is blended is of no concern.

Dan

I dont purposely seek out Kubota branded oil. I get it while buying all my filters and hyd fluids as my dealer has excellent pricing on those items. Its just a one stop shop.

 

[hedgerow]

Thanks for all of the reply's Doesn't sound like any deal had steered anyone away from synthetic. I was surprised that two dealers in two different states didn't like synthetic. I too have used synthetic since the 70's. All but one tractor and my old Cat track loader run synthetic on my operation. I run Mobil in my gas units even in air cooled motors and Rotella synthetic in my diesels. My plan is to run Rotella synthetic in the Grasshopper and in the MX-6000. I currently have a S-850 Bobcat that has a Kubota diesel in it and have ran Rotella synthetic in it since it got its first fifty hour oil change years ago and it doesn't use oil and runs great and starts good in the winter.

 

[GeoHorn]

It‘s my opinion that synthetic oil is so expensive for any added benefit (mostly that it lasts longer in-service) that it is not worth it….and may even be counter-productive in that it encourages less-frequent oil/filter changes.

I also have concern that synthetic oil does not carry as much contaminates as conventional oils. This is based partly upon the experience Mobil had with their attempts to produce a synthetic oil for aviation use and the many ruined engines and settlements they had to offer as the result. (Aviation piston engines still use real gasoline with TEL and the synthetic oil could not scavenge the lead and could not carry the combustion by-products to the filters as well as mineral oils. It was removed from the market and no full-synthetic oil has been successfull produced for aircraft piston engines since.)

I use 15W40 Chevron Delo 400 that costs less than $30 for 2.5 gallons in all three of my diesels without any bad experiences. It meets/exceeds all Kubota requirements.

I use 0W20 Full synthetic in my wifes’ 2018 Toyota because that’s what it calls for and that’s what it came with, and I believe in consistency. (Toyota allows mineral oil but at twice the frequency/half the mileage.).

The Dealership says (for whatever their opinion is worth) that Toyota 0W20 is re-badged Mobil-1..

My 2012 gas pickup gets WalMart SuperTech/Quaker State motor oil and filters, is at 180,000 miles and still running perfectly with no oil consumption. My ‘92 Jeep Cherokee with over 330,000 miles on WalMart SuperTech and whatever filters were cheapest (usually SuperTech but sometimes Purolator) also is still running fine. WM Supertech comes out of the same Shell refinery down in Deer Park, Tx from the same stocks as Quaker State, Pennzoil, and some others…. it just depends on what branded-bottle it’s poured into.

You can take these comments to the bank.

 

[mcmxi]

People who actually OPEN UP engines and see the internals can tell you there is a difference.

• Engines run on dyno oil for life often have 1/2 inch of "tar" on all internal surfaces.
• Engines run on synthetic oil just have a thin layer of residue.

The layer of 'tar' is remnmants from the dyno oil breaking down.

----------------
Another thing not yet mentioned is the TURBOCHARGER. The turbo bearings are the hottest area the oil flows through and is known to cook dyno oil. (known as "coking" when the oil converts into solid carbon) Synthetic oil, with its engineered chemistry, can withstand many 100F more before it starts to turn into coke.

This is the very reason that ALL turbocharged engines should be allowed to idle for several minutes before shutting down. This allows the turbo bearings to cool down by flowing oil thru them. (coaking can happen AFTER engine is shut down and the oil sits in hot turbocharger)

As mentioned several times in this discussion.... synthetic oil is NOT 'more slippery'. Instead, it can withstand much wider thermal environments without getting too thin or breaking down.

I have a DP-Tuner chip and programmer in my '02 Ford F250 7.3L and I have two thermocouples in the exhaust, one before the turbo and one after. The programmer reports EGTs at the two locations so I try to idle the truck until both temps are around 350F or lower to reduce coking of the turbo bearings. It's not always possible to sit and wait 5 minutes but for the most part I do just that. With the MX I let it idle for a few minutes too for the reason you state, to give the turbo a chance to cool down.

 

[GeoHorn]

I have a DP-Tuner chip and programmer in my '02 Ford F250 7.3L and I have two thermocouples in the exhaust, one before the turbo and one after. The programmer reports EGTs at the two locations so I try to idle the truck until both temps are around 350F or lower to reduce coking of the turbo bearings. It's not always possible to sit and wait 5 minutes but for the most part I do just that. With the MX I let it idle for a few minutes too for the reason you state, to give the turbo a chance to cool down.

Letting a turbo stabilize/cool-down before shut-down has documented history in aircraft turbonormalized engines. Passengers anxious to deplane were accepting of a 3-minute cool-down at the chocks after I explained it to them. ( After landing….Taxying slowly at idle would eat-up part of the time and allow them to deplane sooner.)

 

[mcmxi]

Letting a turbo stabilize/cool-down before shut-down has documented history in aircraft turbonormalized engines. Passengers anxious to deplane were accepting of a 3-minute cool-down at the chocks after I explained it to them. ( After landing….Taxying slowly at idle would eat-up part of the time and allow them to deplane sooner.)

I bought the Ford from a pilot friend of mine about three years ago who owned the truck from new. He currently flies for American and was a navy pilot for 12 years. He had so many gizmos on that truck including a turbo temperature monitor/controller that would keep the engine running until a safe temperature was reached. It started acting up on a trip so I removed the whole thing and now just use the programmer screen. I should keep a a spare remote in the truck so that I can walk into a business for a couple of minutes and leave the truck running but locked.

 

[GeoHorn]

I bought the Ford from a pilot friend of mine about three years ago who owned the truck from new. He currently flies for American and was a navy pilot for 12 years. He had so many gizmos on that truck including a turbo temperature monitor/controller that would keep the engine running until a safe temperature was reached. It started acting up on a trip so I removed the whole thing and now just use the programmer screen. I should keep a a spare remote in the truck so that I can walk into a business for a couple of minutes and leave the truck running but locked.

Thread-drift: If you are still friends with him you can impress him by not calling him a “Navy Pilot”. The Navy does indeed have “pilots”. They guide ships into/out-of harbors.

A Navy flyer is properly-termed an Aviator.

(and even Marines are called Aviators when they fly.…. and yes, … the Navy, with superior Instructors, has even been successful at teaching Marines to do this.)

 

[mcmxi]

Thread-drift: If you are still friends with him you can impress him by not calling him a “Navy Pilot”. The Navy does indeed have “pilots”. They guide ships into/out-of harbors.

A Navy flyer is properly-termed an Aviator.

(and even Marines are called Aviators when they fly.…. and yes, … the Navy, with superior Instructors, has even been successful at teaching Marines to do this.)

I've been friends with him for over 20 years so impressing him is not high on my list ... or his! He retired from the Navy with the rank of Commander and I've often told him that it makes no sense that he and James Bond share the same rank! Thanks for the correction though ... and I'll be sure to keep it in mind if I meet any other "Navy pilots".

 

[lmichael]

Bottom line there is no valid reason to NOT use QUALITY synthetic lubricants. (Note QUALITY). Just slapping a synthetic label on Billy Bob's XXw-XX oil does not make it "quality" anymore than slapping "professional" or "commercial" on some POS appliance makes it "better". It's a sadly overused "buzzword".
However the benefits of it FAR outweigh the cost. Unless of course the engine (or equipment) the lubricant is going into is not worth it. I have been using synthetics like stated earlier since the early 70's when Mobil first introduced it. My engines have remained spotless internally and wear pretty much non existent. Actually I have yet to be able to "wear out" a vehicle/engine/transmission. Rust and corrosion thanks to our environment has always taken it's toll long before useful life due to wear was reached.
On my G2160 it's had synthetic all it's life (Amsoil) prior to me buying it. Right now it uses Shell Rotella T-6.
Yes conventional oils have gotten light years better than they once were as well, but good synthetics are light years better even than they are.
I did not continue with Amsoil only because it's hard to get and WAY more $$$$ than any possible benefit over a known great product like Rotella T6
I don't say this based only on "opinion" but on solid anecdotal and evidential experience over the course of close to 50 years experience using these products and working on MANY vehicles.
But bottom line everyone is free to do as they please. This is how "I please"

 

[GeoHorn]

…
I don't say this based only on "opinion" but on solid anecdotal and evidential experience…"

OH! Okay…. “solid anecdotal” ..heh..?



(Perhaps you failed to read the bad experience Mobil 1 suffered in engines using leaded gasoline…. In my “anecdotal and evidential experience”…. diesels are dirtier than gasoline engines…. I like the results AND the costs of using conventional oils. Good Air Filtration is probably more important, and a lot cheaper, IMO.

 

[Benhameen]

Any one here ever have their oil tested by someone like Blackstone laboratories? If so, what oil do you run and what was the conclusion?

I had my Yamaha FJR1300 oil tested just out of curiosity. I have been running Dino oil in mine for 40,000 miles. A friend bought the same bike and couldn’t believe I didn’t run synthetic, wanted to argue or convince me that he was 100% right about what to run. I told him I just run what Yamaha says to run and I’ve had no problems at all. I go further between changes than what Yamaha recommends though, I do 5,000ish miles. So the report came back with flying colors and they suggested I go to 8,000 miles before changes from what their analysis shows. I plan to stick with 5,000 miles or depending on how I’ve been riding I’ll go by my shifter feel and change it sooner.

Sorry, super thread drift. I meant to collect some of the oil out of my L3800 and have it analyzed but it slipped my mind when I changed it. Maybe next time I’ll have it done and post up the results.

 

[NvRudder]

OH! Okay…. “solid anecdotal” ..heh..?



(Perhaps you failed to read the bad experience Mobil 1 suffered in engines using leaded gasoline…. In my “anecdotal and evidential experience”…. diesels are dirtier than gasoline engines…. I like the results AND the costs of using conventional oils. Good Air Filtration is probably more important, and a lot cheaper, IMO.

Kubota 10W-30 ...Messicks...$21.44/gal

Rotella T5 10W-30...WalMart...$21.70/gal

Agree...at the end of the day, good air filtration, consistent fluid change intervals and proper viscosity probably more important than conventional vs synthetic...
But... with pricing basically a push, will probably go Rotella...(If I can ever get the L2501DT that I ordered 5/4!)

 

[85Hokie]

Kubota 10W-30 ...Messicks...$21.44/gal

Rotella T5 10W-30...WalMart...$21.70/gal

Agree...at the end of the day, good air filtration, consistent fluid change intervals and proper viscosity probably more important than conventional vs synthetic...
But... with pricing basically a push, will probably go Rotella...(If I can ever get the L2501DT that I ordered 5/4!)

Wally world

Rotella T6 15W-40 ......... $22.28 gallon


remember Joe Pesci in my cousin vinny?

ass kicked or $200 ???

I'll take the T6 for .75 cents more please!

I swear that synthetic stuff is way to expensive to buy and use! ......... yeah, add sarcasm where needed.

 

[mcmxi]

It always makes me wonder why people talk about the cost of synthetic oil compared to conventional oil but will spend $5 on a cup of coffee every day or buy lunch for $15 three times a week, or spend $50 at the movies, or buy a $600 cell phone every year, or buy a new car or truck every three years ... and on and on. There are so many ways to spend (waste) money in this life but hopefully we get to choose how and when we do it.