Front end loader lack of lifting power

[grsabourin]

Hi

I have a b7500 with la302. I was using it to move wood log but at the end of the I was feeling that the front end loader has a way less lifting capacity. I had hard time to lift small log and loader valve is difficult to operate to go up and down. Do you have idea what can be the cause.

Thank you

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi

I have a b7500 with la302. I was using it to move wood log but at the end of the I was feeling that the front end loader has a way less lifting capacity. I had hard time to lift small log and loader valve is difficult to operate to go up and down. Do you have idea what can be the cause.

Thank you

Multiple possibilities. First thing to check - shut tractor off and operate loader valve several times to relieve all pressure. - eg move the lift spool into float and bucket to dump a couple times. Is the valve still hard to operate?

Dan

 

[mikester]

Do you have idea what can be the cause.

Unrealistic expectations cause unachievable performance

 

[TheOldHokie]

Unrealistic expectations cause unachievable performance

That's what I told her

 

[grsabourin]

Yes clearly it is easy to have unrealistic expectations for this kind of job. This say the important thing is at beginning of the day front end loader had much more lifting power than at the end of the day. It is like that something is leaking under high pressure

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yes clearly it is easy to have unrealistic expectations for this kind of job. This say the important thing is at beginning of the day front end loader had much more lifting power than at the end of the day. It is like that something is leaking under high pressure

Yes clearly it is easy to have unrealistic expectations for this kind of job. This say the important thing is at beginning of the day front end loader had much more lifting power than at the end of the day. It is like that something is leaking under high pressure

No more likely than a loss of pressure. You complained of difficult valve operation. That is not obviously consistent with high pressure loss through a leak. Pressure is easy to check with a $20 gauge but I would still like some ckarification on the valve issue. A spool blocked or jammed by contaminants might produce both symptoms. If it frees up when you relieve pressure perhaps its hydraulic not mechanical.

Dan

 

[grsabourin]

No more likely than a loss of pressure. You complained of difficult valve operation. That is not obviously consistent with high pressure loss through a leak. Pressure is easy to check with a $20 gauge but I would still like some ckarification on the valve issue. A spool blocked or jammed by contaminants might produce both symptoms. If it frees up when you relieve pressure perhaps its hydraulic not mechanical.

Dan

 

[grsabourin]

I think i was not clear about difficult to operate. It is difficult to find th right way to push the lever to open the valve to raise the bucket. You have to go right to left to find the way to open the valve. Same thing to lower the bucket. Most of the time pushing the lever completely up to go in floating mode to be able to lower the bucket

 

[TheOldHokie]

I think i was not clear about difficult to operate. It is difficult to find th right way to push the lever to open the valve to raise the bucket. You have to go right to left to find the way to open the valve. Same thing to lower the bucket. Most of the time pushing the lever completely up to go in floating mode to be able to lower the bucket

I think i was not clear about difficult to operate. It is difficult to find th right way to push the lever to open the valve to raise the bucket. You have to go right to left to find the way to open the valve. Same thing to lower the bucket. Most of the time pushing the lever completely up to go in floating mode to be able to lower the bucket

I am not a whole let clearer now but it sounds like your valve may be the problem. You seem to he describing a problem operating the spools on a joystick conyrol. I'd have a good hard look at the joystick linkages.

 

[grsabourin]

I am not a whole let clearer now but it sounds like your valve may be the problem. You seem to he describing a problem operating the spools on a joystick conyrol. I'd have a good hard look at the joystick linkages.

Here is a lot more details about my current issue following more systematic investigation

My loader has 2 actions
Up/down + floating position
dumping

1 experimentation ( normal connection of hydraulic hose)

Raise the loader : work ok at normal speed
Lower the loader : The loader never goes down but slowly raise
Floating position : the loader is going down. This is the only way to lower the loader

Dumping (down ) : work ok
Dumping (up) : work ok


2 experimentation (reverse hydraulic hose connection. Use dumping to raise and lower the loader )

Raise the loader (dump valve) : Work great
Lower the loader (dump valve) : Nothing happen

Dumping (raise loader) : work ok
Dumping(lower loader) : nothing happen

It is clear that the valve has strange comportment.

Is it only the valve or it can be also cylinder issue.

Thank you

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here is a lot more details about my current issue following more systematic investigation

My loader has 2 actions
Up/down + floating position
dumping

1 experimentation ( normal connection of hydraulic hose)

Raise the loader : work ok at normal speed
Lower the loader : The loader never goes down but slowly raise
Floating position : the loader is going down. This is the only way to lower the loader

Dumping (down ) : work ok
Dumping (up) : work ok


2 experimentation (reverse hydraulic hose connection. Use dumping to raise and lower the loader )

Raise the loader (dump valve) : Work great
Lower the loader (dump valve) : Nothing happen

Dumping (raise loader) : work ok
Dumping(lower loader) : nothing happen

It is clear that the valve has strange comportment.

Is it only the valve or it can be also cylinder issue.

Thank you

Way to many unknowns here.

With your first setup evetything works except loader power down. I thought it would not raise correctly.

Why would you swap hoses? I thought this was working and over time stopped working. Did you change or add anything to the system?

You have self installed remotes. Is that OEM valves or DIY?

It sounds like something is backfeeding your loader valve. Did you see the post on draft control? Is your position control lever in the full down position? Do you have anything on the 3pt?

Dan

 

[grsabourin]

Way to many unknowns here.

With your first setup evetything works except loader power down. I thought it would not raise correctly.

Yes I'm agree and also surprise that raising the loader work correctly. I did not confirm if lifting power is good but speed is good.

Why would you swap hoses? I thought this was working and over time stopped working. Did you change or add anything to the system?

I swap hoses because I would like to see if it is only lower/raising valve that is affected or lifting cylinders. Considering dumping action was good, I was expecting raising/lowering action will become good after swapping.

Based on my knowledge, this valve is original kubota valve. At the moment of swapping hoses the only operation I did is swapping the four houses ( 2 paires)

You have self installed remotes. Is that OEM valves or DIY?

It sounds like something is backfeeding your loader valve. Did you see the post on draft control? Is your position control lever in the full down position? Do you have anything on the 3pt?
Dan

Just mention that is not a new installation. The loader was working perfectly and at a moment of the day it was starting having lack of power and mostly I was needing to put the loader in floating mode to lower it. The only thing I can see as previous symptoms is sometime in winter when I use the valve to command my snow blower I have to put the lever in the middle of the two actions to be able to raise the snowblower.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yes I'm agree and also surprise that raising the loader work correctly. I did not confirm if lifting power is good but speed is good.



I swap hoses because I would like to see if it is only lower/raising valve that is affected or lifting cylinders. Considering dumping action was good, I was expecting raising/lowering action will become good after swapping.

Based on my knowledge, this valve is original kubota valve. At the moment of swapping hoses the only operation I did is swapping the four houses ( 2 paires)



Just mention that is not a new installation. The loader was working perfectly and at a moment of the day it was starting having lack of power and mostly I was needing to put the loader in floating mode to lower it. The only thing I can see as previous symptoms is sometime in winter when I use the valve to command my snow blower I have to put the lever in the middle of the two actions to be able to raise the snowblower.

We are not talking on the same wavelength. The answer will be found if we go slow and focus on specific things in an orderly fashion. This is an older model and a very simple system - nearly identical to the one on my B7200 with B1630 loader. Lets start at the very beginning with the loader valve and plumbing. Is this what you have? Please check and verify EACH of the hose connections as follows:

1) Hose number 70 should be connected to the port on the left rear of the loader valve This port is behind the relief valve cartridge and it shouuld go to the upper right port on the tractors hydraulic outlet block.

2) Hose number 60 should be connected to the port on the right side of the loader valve and go to the port on the lower left of the tractors hydraulic outlet block.

3) Hose number 80 should be connected to the port on the right rear of the loader control valve and go to the side of teh transmission.

If any of those hoses goes somewhere else where do they go?

Dan

 

[grsabourin]

We are not talking on the same wavelength. The answer will be found if we go slow and focus on specific things in an orderly fashion. This is an older model and a very simple system - nearly identical to the one on my B7200 with B1630 loader. Lets start at the very beginning with the loader valve and plumbing. Is this what you have? Please check and verify EACH of the hose connections as follows:

1) Hose number 70 should be connected to the port on the left rear of the loader valve This port is behind the relief valve cartridge and it shouuld go to the upper right port on the tractors hydraulic outlet block.

2) Hose number 60 should be connected to the port on the right side of the loader valve and go to the port on the lower left of the tractors hydraulic outlet block.

3) Hose number 80 should be connected to the port on the right rear of the loader control valve and go to the side of teh transmission.

If any of those hoses goes somewhere else where do they go?

Dan

Hi Dan,

I checked hoses according your diagram. Everthing is correct and exactly as your diagram.

 

[jimh406]

Just some things to check …

Does the 3 pt seem ok? Have you checked to see that all bolts are tight in the loader and nothing is bent? Have you greased it lately? Have you checked the hydraulic fluid level?

 

[grsabourin]

Just some things to check …

Does the 3 pt seem ok? Have you checked to see that all bolts are tight in the loader and nothing is bent? Have you greased it lately? Have you checked the hydraulic fluid level?

Few good points

3 pts work great. I had a load of around 200lbs on it (winch) and it works great.

Never check all bolts but seems correct and nothing seems bent or not normal. I grease the loader really frequently basically as recommended every 10 work hours.

Just check trans-hydraulic fluid. It looks good.

Do you think filter issue (clogged) can create this issue? Current filter has a little bit more that 100 hours

 

[jimh406]

I was just watching a tractor time with time show and the hydraulics “expert” said that dirt/etc can cause a lot of issues. I think changing the filter early would be a reasonable expense, and won’t hurt anything.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi Dan,

I checked hoses according your diagram. Everthing is correct and exactly as your diagram.

OK now we verify operation.

Disconnect the hose at the transmission fitting. That is your tank return. Put the end of that hose in a 5g bucket and start the tractor. There should not be any fluid coming from that hose. If there is something is plumbed incorrectly. Turn the tractor off and replenish the fluid. Do not proceed any any further.

If there is no flow continue as follows:

Operate the valve to raise the loader. Do not operate the bucket. You should get a steady stream of fluid from that hose as the loader goes up. It should stop when the loader stops. Now lower the loader - DO NOT use float. We want to see the pressure down behaviour. You should get the same results - flow into the bucket as the loader comes down and flow stops when the loader stops.

Replenish the fluid and report what you find.


Dan

 

[grsabourin]

Just some things to check …

Does the 3 pt seem ok? Have you checked to see that all bolts are tight in the loader and nothing is bent? Have you greased it lately? Have you checked the hydraulic fluid level?

Yes fluid level good