G4200 Screaming PTO Engagement

[kajun]

Folks :

Do any of you still run this unit or a similar one ? If so you know the PTO is belt-driven . I just changed the PTO drive belts . The unit has always screamed some when the PTO was engaged [ my 3d year with unit ] but now it-screams like a banshee upon engagement . Any thoughts ?
Obliged

Kajun

 

[Dave_eng]

Folks :

Do any of you still run this unit or a similar one ? If so you know the PTO is belt-driven . I just changed the PTO drive belts . The unit has always screamed some when the PTO was engaged [ my 3d year with unit ] but now it-screams like a banshee upon engagement . Any thoughts ?
Obliged

Kajun

Where are you buying the belts?

Have you tried turning the mower with the pto belt removed to make certain the mower hardware turns freely. A spindle bearing starting to drag or seize can put a severe strain on a belt.

Dave

 

[cliffboyer]

I have a G5200, same mower with a 3 cylinder. It has never screeched when PTO is engaged. I never engage PTO at full throttle. Do it at half, then power up.

My first inkling would be the belts slipping on the pulleys. I am thinking mine are cloth covered. A failing bearing or U-joint, or other drag in the deck hindering spin-up could be a cause too. Pull deck off and check all the spinning parts. Could be some debris wrapped around a spindle or pulley too.

There is hidden grease zerk that is easy to miss. Where the PTO shaft passes through the front axle pivot, there is zerk on the bottom.

 

[kajun]

Where are you buying the belts?

Have you tried turning the mower with the pto belt removed to make certain the mower hardware turns freely. A spindle bearing starting to drag or seize can put a severe strain on a belt.

Dave

Thanks , Dave .

Belts are after market but same ones last on unit . Spindles are free ; drive belt on deck good and free ; gearbox good and free .

Screaming occurs at point when clutch puts tension on PTO belts ; screaming subsides once belts are under full tension . PTO idlers are free .

Thanks x 2 .

 

[kajun]

I have a G5200, same mower with a 3 cylinder. It has never screeched when PTO is engaged. I never engage PTO at full throttle. Do it at half, then power up.

My first inkling would be the belts slipping on the pulleys. I am thinking mine are cloth covered. A failing bearing or U-joint, or other drag in the deck hindering spin-up could be a cause too. Pull deck off and check all the spinning parts. Could be some debris wrapped around a spindle or pulley too.

There is hidden grease zerk that is easy to miss. Where the PTO shaft passes through the front axle pivot, there is zerk on the bottom.

Thanks Cliff Boyer . Didn’t see your post before I replied to Dave’s . What you say is what I wanted to hear . This puppy has always screeched/screamed . And I have always wondered about it .
Glad to hear it was not part of the design . I do engage at low engine RPMs. The screeching upon engagement is just much louder with these new belts .

Yes , that zerk is hard to find . Operated unit for a year before I found it .

Thanks x 2 .

 

[Dave_eng]

Thanks , Dave .

Belts are after market but same ones last on unit . Spindles are free ; drive belt on deck good and free ; gearbox good and free .

Screaming occurs at point when clutch puts tension on PTO belts ; screaming subsides once belts are under full tension . PTO idlers are free .

Thanks x 2 .

Please provide the part number of aftermarket belts. Numbers like AP103, B52

Dave

 

[kubotafreak]

The pto idler/tensioner needs adjustment whenever new belts are applied. There is a specific spec for the spring length. I don't know it for your model, usually Kubota puts a sticker with the length. If that doesn't work the spring may be worn out. You may look to see if the belts are equal length. I know most of these use double belts, and the length is more critical than single belt units. Kubota generally sells them as a matched pair, since even with manufacturing there are length differences.

 

[kajun]

Please provide the part number of aftermarket belts. Numbers like AP103, B52

Dave

Thanks . Shown on photo.

 

[kajun]

The pto idler/tensioner needs adjustment whenever new belts are applied. There is a specific spec for the spring length. I don't know it for your model, usually Kubota puts a sticker with the length. If that doesn't work the spring may be worn out. You may look to see if the belts are equal length. I know most of these use double belts, and the length is more critical than single belt units. Kubota generally sells them as a matched pair, since even with manufacturing there are length differences.

Thanks K-Freak . Just checked Manual on that . I find it unusual that with new belts [ my situation ] that the spring is supposed to be set tighter [ 2.91 - 2.99 inches ] than with a broken-in belt [ 2.72 -2.87 inches ] . One would think that a new belt would be shorter than a broken-in one . Or maybe , as is true with many things , I have no clue about springs . Anyway , I haven't made the adjustment yet --really raining in Louisiana again -- but I will adjust and see what happens .
Obliged .

 

[BruceP]

My G5200 uses the same setup as your G4200. (different engine).

The belts MUST be purchased as a "matched pair" (not just two belts with the same numbers on them)

Yes, they will squeel when first applied. Apply S-L-O--W-L-Y at low RPM to allow things to come up to speed... after applied, bring engine RPMs up.

From your description, the squeeling stops once the rotating assembly is up to speed... I am not clear what the problem is.

I suspect, as the belts get worn-in, the worst of the squealing will subside.

 

[kajun]

My G5200 uses the same setup as your G4200. (different engine).

The belts MUST be purchased as a "matched pair" (not just two belts with the same numbers on them)

Yes, they will squeel when first applied. Apply S-L-O--W-L-Y at low RPM to allow things to come up to speed... after applied, bring engine RPMs up.

From your description, the squeeling stops once the rotating assembly is up to speed... I am not clear what the problem is.

I suspect, as the belts get worn-in, the worst of the squealing will subside.

Thanks , Bruce P . Suspect you are right .

 

[Dave_eng]

This comment is not meant to challenge anyone's comment about matched pairs but instead to remind forum members that sometime in the fairly recent past someone, (perhaps NIW), informed us that the matched belt pairs issue was, with modern manufacturing, no longer an issue because the manufacturing tolerances were now so close between any two belts coming off the production line that, for shorter belts, they could be considered "matched.".

I found this article from Gates which explains more aspects of this topic for those interested.

Gates

In looking up the Kubota belt(s) for the Owners tractor, Kubota sells individual and matched belts. Not certain how to interpret this re matched pairs issue.

I realize this topic, like fuel additives, will have those who stand on one side of the fence or the other for good personal reasons.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind!!

Dave

 

[kajun]

Well , gents , made the adjustment suggested by kubotafreak . Seems to have helped . Thanks , K-Freak .

And thanks to all who responded , guided and suggested . I worked behind mules at about age 8 ; one gave the mules a few nubbins at the end of the day and just blew and go the next . Ran very old tracs until I got M4700 . Still , therefore , acclimating to these modern , sophisticated machines . Maybe I prefer the nubbins .

I

 

[BruceP]

Here is a link to the belts I use on my G5200. It is the lowest price I have found anywhere for a quality pair.

At this price, I could buy 4 pairs for the cost which Kubota asks for 1 pair. Even if the OEM Kubota belts are better.... they are not 4x better.

Kubota 66021-25000 V-Belt Set of 2 | Kubota 66021-25000

Kubota 66021-25000 V-Belt Set of 2 Belts 5/8" X 32.48" After Market Premium Kevlar Belt Advantages of Kevlar®/Aramid Belts ♦ Extra strength for clutching ♦ Higher resistance to shock loads ♦ Reduces belt slippage ♦ Better durability ♦ Withstand higher temperatures, ♦Oil resistant ♦ more...

www.usabearingsandbelts.com

 

[kajun]

Here is a link to the belts I use on my G5200. It is the lowest price I have found anywhere for a quality pair.

At this price, I could buy 4 pairs for the cost which Kubota asks for 1 pair. Even if the OEM Kubota belts are better.... they are not 4x better.

Kubota 66021-25000 V-Belt Set of 2 | Kubota 66021-25000

Kubota 66021-25000 V-Belt Set of 2 Belts 5/8" X 32.48" After Market Premium Kevlar Belt Advantages of Kevlar®/Aramid Belts ♦ Extra strength for clutching ♦ Higher resistance to shock loads ♦ Reduces belt slippage ♦ Better durability ♦ Withstand higher temperatures, ♦Oil resistant ♦ more...

www.usabearingsandbelts.com

Thanks Bruce P . Appreciate the link . As one who fed nubbins to mules [ pretty much sole expense of maintenance ] you can guess what I think about the exorbitant Kubota prices .