motionclone
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Who's getting a handout in your neighbor hood?
- Thread starter D2Cat
- Start date
I went back and forth with this one. I’m self employed and can say that I lost revenue due to the shut down. So in the end I did reach out to my bank, they weren’t as helpful as I thought they would be, long story. The laundry list of items they wanted was vast. including info from 2019 when I had only been in business for 3 months and didn’t pay myself. In the meantime I talked with a gentleman that processes these PPP loans through another bank, just by chance I know his wife. Gave him the info he asked for, significantly less than my current bank and nothing from 2019, he said as long as the program doesn’t run out of money i should be approved the following day. Well the money ran out that night. I wasn’t terrible upset about not getting the money but I really can’t understand my banks line of thinking verses his. I’ll pick his brain about when I see him again.
Also, I’m not one to ask for a handout but they were going to give this money away until it was gone and I’d rather see some mom and pops or small business owner taking advantage of it rather than huge corporations sucking it dry.
YOMV
Also, I’m not one to ask for a handout but they were going to give this money away until it was gone and I’d rather see some mom and pops or small business owner taking advantage of it rather than huge corporations sucking it dry.
YOMV
In Canada the number one employer is small business. The majority of corporate welfare only goes to large businesses though. Go figure.
BAP
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Looking up who received money in my area using the link D2Cat provided, it makes me wonder how many of them really needed the money to maintain their payroll and keep their employees on payroll, and how many used it to just fatten their bottom line and keep making large profits through this trying times.
I remember when I was a kid over 60 years ago, that my family and others looked down on people that accepted help from the local government. Not sure what that was...I think it was called welfare.
Later I came to realize that those who did not take advantage of the system were actually fools, for lack of a better term.
Somehow I can not blame the people taking advantage of the system, for shortcomings in the system.
Would I do it? Maybe, maybe not. Not sure.
Do not have the opportunity to decide at the moment...
armylifer
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That link also has a section in it to see what the loan status is and how many employees the company has. I noticed two people on the list that seem to have overstated the number of employees. Unless they are counting all the members of their household, I know for a fact that there are not that many employees. I wonder how to report suspected fraud.
If one participates in any plan and does not tell the total truth to get government funds, it is no different then stealing from your working neighbor.
motionclone
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They may be frauding the system or they may be counting owners of the company as employees which is legal under the rules for ppp
motionclone
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Who said anything about lying to get what is offered? If one does that he should be in jail, no argument.
But what about actually qualifying to get some money? Although I never participated except for unemployment a couple times, I kind of currently conclude that passing because of pride (or whatever) is kind of foolish.
Maybe just me...attitudes change as you get older...
I own a business (sole prop)
I work full time, for 9 months of 2020 at a kubota dealer and the last 3 months at a powersports dealer which I am still at.
The kubota dealer took a big loan, supposedly to help pay their employees. They have 53 employees including the owners and their kids-who have never done anything (well except one of the kids) for the company other than suck up funds. Trust me when I say this, but the chain of dealers was making money hand over fist withOUT any loans. It was a booming year. Yet the workers didn't see a dime of a payroll increase, myself included. Last pay increase was 2012. Hence, one of many reasons I left. I still stay in touch with one of the other employees that I worked with. The corporation took about $2M in loans last year. The dealer I worked for did nothing for building/facilities improvements that they kept promising to do. They sent the money WE (workers) made for them to other dealers of the chain that are failing--and it begs the question why are they failing? Because they hired their friends to run them...drunks/crackheads/etc. When I worked at the Kubota shop, it was a daily occurrence--where someone would show up or call, saying that they were at one of the other dealers in our chain and didn't care for the service they received. Every day 5 days a week, sometimes several times a day. There was good reason that we (at the dealer I worked at) stayed busy. Experience, professionalism, and we worked our butts off. That don't mean there weren't problems that popped up sometimes.
New job is a small business, 9 of us total including the boss and his wife. Great folks, real down to earth. They took no loans. I mentioned it to them the other day that the old workplace took $2M and they said they took nothing because 2020 was a booming year for sales and income-which is why I got a good Christmas bonus. I was shocked at Christmas time to see that I got the same bonus that I had gotten in the prior 20 years at the other place. Usually when you start a new job a couple months before Christmas, generally speaking you don't get much and I expected that. So far 2021 has also been a banner year for sales, we can't get enough product to keep up with demand. That is a good problem to have. 2021 models are already sold completely out and 2022's are in production, so there is a big gap there. Prior year models typically still ship until about August or early Sept on most years, but they were sold out of 21's in early May. I'm in the service side of things and I can tell you that service has also been extremely blessed. I like to say busy and with the exception of the snow storm, I have been plenty busy--even though I'm inexperienced with product in comparison to Kubota. But I still work on a Kubota or two, working at a place for almost 3 decades and leaving suddenly, your loyal clients tend to follow you. I look at that as a blessing. Some might call it a curse.
And the new job-I just got a call from the owner (who I'd consider a friend) that the business is going to do up a theme bike for SEMA, and I'm asked to do a lot of the fab work here at the house, also boss says he's paying for my way to Vegas in November. The Kubota place NEVER did that (ever) in the 3 decades I worked for them. SEMA--is a dream come true for me, a hotrodder, an enthusiast. I've never had the time off or funds to go until now. Boss says he'll pay "us" (home business) very well to do this, says he has a $150,000 all inclusive budget. I know it goes quick but I also know that $150,000 is a chunk of money when it comes to powersports equipment. I'm beside myself. Humbled and honored.
On my own I also didn't apply for PPP loan. With a full time job it really wasn't needed, yet there were probabaly other businesses that could benefit much more than I so I left it alone. I qualified according to the accountant, just chose not to. Restaurant a couple miles from here took $2.5M, which is more than their annual income--I don't know how all that works but $2.5M will buy their entire restaurant, land, and all the assets about twiced. Maybe they have more than just the one place, I dunno. So I guess the PPP I didn't take went to them, or whatever. I hope they used it wisely.
I work full time, for 9 months of 2020 at a kubota dealer and the last 3 months at a powersports dealer which I am still at.
The kubota dealer took a big loan, supposedly to help pay their employees. They have 53 employees including the owners and their kids-who have never done anything (well except one of the kids) for the company other than suck up funds. Trust me when I say this, but the chain of dealers was making money hand over fist withOUT any loans. It was a booming year. Yet the workers didn't see a dime of a payroll increase, myself included. Last pay increase was 2012. Hence, one of many reasons I left. I still stay in touch with one of the other employees that I worked with. The corporation took about $2M in loans last year. The dealer I worked for did nothing for building/facilities improvements that they kept promising to do. They sent the money WE (workers) made for them to other dealers of the chain that are failing--and it begs the question why are they failing? Because they hired their friends to run them...drunks/crackheads/etc. When I worked at the Kubota shop, it was a daily occurrence--where someone would show up or call, saying that they were at one of the other dealers in our chain and didn't care for the service they received. Every day 5 days a week, sometimes several times a day. There was good reason that we (at the dealer I worked at) stayed busy. Experience, professionalism, and we worked our butts off. That don't mean there weren't problems that popped up sometimes.
New job is a small business, 9 of us total including the boss and his wife. Great folks, real down to earth. They took no loans. I mentioned it to them the other day that the old workplace took $2M and they said they took nothing because 2020 was a booming year for sales and income-which is why I got a good Christmas bonus. I was shocked at Christmas time to see that I got the same bonus that I had gotten in the prior 20 years at the other place. Usually when you start a new job a couple months before Christmas, generally speaking you don't get much and I expected that. So far 2021 has also been a banner year for sales, we can't get enough product to keep up with demand. That is a good problem to have. 2021 models are already sold completely out and 2022's are in production, so there is a big gap there. Prior year models typically still ship until about August or early Sept on most years, but they were sold out of 21's in early May. I'm in the service side of things and I can tell you that service has also been extremely blessed. I like to say busy and with the exception of the snow storm, I have been plenty busy--even though I'm inexperienced with product in comparison to Kubota. But I still work on a Kubota or two, working at a place for almost 3 decades and leaving suddenly, your loyal clients tend to follow you. I look at that as a blessing. Some might call it a curse.
And the new job-I just got a call from the owner (who I'd consider a friend) that the business is going to do up a theme bike for SEMA, and I'm asked to do a lot of the fab work here at the house, also boss says he's paying for my way to Vegas in November. The Kubota place NEVER did that (ever) in the 3 decades I worked for them. SEMA--is a dream come true for me, a hotrodder, an enthusiast. I've never had the time off or funds to go until now. Boss says he'll pay "us" (home business) very well to do this, says he has a $150,000 all inclusive budget. I know it goes quick but I also know that $150,000 is a chunk of money when it comes to powersports equipment. I'm beside myself. Humbled and honored.
On my own I also didn't apply for PPP loan. With a full time job it really wasn't needed, yet there were probabaly other businesses that could benefit much more than I so I left it alone. I qualified according to the accountant, just chose not to. Restaurant a couple miles from here took $2.5M, which is more than their annual income--I don't know how all that works but $2.5M will buy their entire restaurant, land, and all the assets about twiced. Maybe they have more than just the one place, I dunno. So I guess the PPP I didn't take went to them, or whatever. I hope they used it wisely.
Lil Foot
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Forget PPP loans... I'd like to know why I pay more in taxes than a so called billionaire ex president? Or more than a fortune 500 company... The working man always get's fleeced.
armylifer
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while I will agree that the working folks always get shafted, I also know that rich folks know how to work the system, and the media-does a very good job of telling everyone how some rich guy didn't pay any taxes.
How's that work?
Did you get a refund last year? Then it could be said that you didn't pay any taxes either. Because at tax time, you didn't--you got refunded. That's exactly how the media turns stuff around.
Example here is a place not 1/4 mile from here (my closest neighbor) that went to an old folks' home. Their kids show up from New Mexico to try to salvage the house, and find over 100 cats inside and a couple dogs. It was a mess, I knew it, so did everyone else. The media gets wind of it and they sent crews out and they were saying that there were all these cats and dogs and the owner didn't take care of them and that the owner is subject to animal cruelty charges. They didn't tell the rest of the story that the owner of the home has been in an old folks' home for 4 1/2 months and COULDN"T take care of the place, so it became over run with feral animals. That's how the media works. They came to my place and I asked them nicely to leave, which they did. They wanted me to talk on camera. No. I know how they work. I passed up another 10 seconds of fame. Fine with me!
from a business standpoint, the government totally screws businesses with every single little fee and tax. It's absolutely ridiculous. Most of us pay into the government a little more than half ow what we make, thus if we used media terminology, we're not working for clients-we are working for the government. Here is where things get complicated. Businesses have many many more ways to reduce their tax liability and GOOD businesspeople will do all that they can in order to do so. They give much to charity (tax incentives), they buy more assets, etc. Write offs, incentives, deductions, credits. A place I used to work at, the accounting lady always said that they ideally need to have enough deductions to offset 100% of the taxes that they either normally had to pay in or did pay in. It must have worked because out of the 28 years I worked there, only a few years can I remember them having to pay a bunch of income tax.
armylifer
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To add to the points that Lugbolt makes, I would like to point out that every dollar that is in existence gets taxed. There is no such thing as untaxed money. Once a dollar is transferred from one entity to another, but it personal or corporate, it is taxed. The aforementioned ex president is no exception. He paid many time over in taxes than most of us will earn in our lifetimes. As lugbot said, the media will spin every story the way that they want to. The media never favors the full story, let alone the truth.
coachgeo
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L225 w/woods Few Mowers & Back Blade, D722 in Motorcycle (Triumph Tiger), LMTV
the percent in the industry I work (youth sports) that took PPP survived......... the rest did not. I'd day 30% of the industry DIED. It has been devastating to the industry. Many dreams of good good people killed... and would have been significantly more if it were not for PPP. Youth sport business owners are NOT folk who are typically very business savvy.... most are in it for the kids.. so sadly those who were mostly in it for the kids..... are the ones that shut down; having their dreams (and life savings) crushed. (been there done that)
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coachgeo
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abuse (aka ill gained handouts) ..... media jumps on it...... but the other side the press does NOT speak on... but a very few notes at the beginning of PPP roll out
1. They knew there would be abuse
2. they could avoid the abuse in most part but maybe the slickest of business scum by taking months and months and months to get all the legal wording right in the rolling out of it..... and by adding in so many limitations/complications and yards of paperwork that it would take a year and a slew of lawyers to just get the paperwork processed and by then all the biz owner's employees would have moved on to live in a tent somewhere starved.
Note- This was the battle between the two political camps... one wanted the delay..... (democrats) and the other wanted to just get the damn money out and take the risk (Republican's) this was lightly covered in press at the very beginning.
3. there are/were systems already in place to catch the largest cheaters on the back end.. and this has started.
4. final decision was to just get the funds out asap and catch the cheaters on the back end- and it worked
Press of course eats it up each time they catch a cheater and blames past administration... while forgetting to mention that was the actual plan ..... catch the cheaters on the back end.... and it is working. And forget to mention we'd all be unemployed still if not for it getting rolled out fast.
IMHO this original PPP was an absolute godsend to the survival of American small and medium businesses EMPLOYEE's. Big biz would have been fine but they would have survived by cutting huge part of their workforce .. aka counter productive to Joe Public employee which PPP was really all about.
Side point... Some later stimulus money sent direct to homes was in part (too large a part) to buy votes.... and should have been smaller and or not at all. IMHO more ppp and ZERO home sent money would have been better. They the more lazy have to get off their ass to receive income.
1. They knew there would be abuse
2. they could avoid the abuse in most part but maybe the slickest of business scum by taking months and months and months to get all the legal wording right in the rolling out of it..... and by adding in so many limitations/complications and yards of paperwork that it would take a year and a slew of lawyers to just get the paperwork processed and by then all the biz owner's employees would have moved on to live in a tent somewhere starved.
Note- This was the battle between the two political camps... one wanted the delay..... (democrats) and the other wanted to just get the damn money out and take the risk (Republican's) this was lightly covered in press at the very beginning.
3. there are/were systems already in place to catch the largest cheaters on the back end.. and this has started.
4. final decision was to just get the funds out asap and catch the cheaters on the back end- and it worked
Press of course eats it up each time they catch a cheater and blames past administration... while forgetting to mention that was the actual plan ..... catch the cheaters on the back end.... and it is working. And forget to mention we'd all be unemployed still if not for it getting rolled out fast.
IMHO this original PPP was an absolute godsend to the survival of American small and medium businesses EMPLOYEE's. Big biz would have been fine but they would have survived by cutting huge part of their workforce .. aka counter productive to Joe Public employee which PPP was really all about.
Side point... Some later stimulus money sent direct to homes was in part (too large a part) to buy votes.... and should have been smaller and or not at all. IMHO more ppp and ZERO home sent money would have been better. They the more lazy have to get off their ass to receive income.