Hello everyone. Im new to this forum and relatively new to the world of tractors. With that said, i have what is probably a novice question. I was considering adding liquid ballast to my Bx23s rears, but the manual says to remove the ballast when the backhoe is installed. Anyone having a Bx23s would probably agree that the backhoe is a major reason for the purchase of that model , thus it would probably be attached most of the time. Am i really expected to drain tires each time backhoe is reinstated? Any and all advice is appreciated. Trying to keep it simple, but safe for me and the machine. Thanks
Bx23s ballast question
- Thread starter FloridaOrange
- Start date
I has teh BX23S. I dont see the advantage of filling the rear tires when the hoe provides copious counter weight.
The tire ballast idea was for the rare occasions when I did not have the backhoe attached. I deal with a lot if sandy soil, so I thought ballast could help me get better traction and or stability on slopes. Just seeing what, if anything, the rest of the folk out there do.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
In 3 years I've never taken the BH off, but if I did, I'd use a 3PH 'carryall' to lift/carry a skid of weight. How heavy ,depends on what is happening 'up front'.
I'm thinking a lot here have a MMM, so really , ballested rears are a bad idea.
I'm thinking a lot here have a MMM, so really , ballested rears are a bad idea.
First post for me as I'm new here as well. I just took delivery on a new BX23S. The guy at the dealer talked to me about loaded tires. He asked if I'd have the backhoe on a lot or if I was planning on using the machine without it most of the time. I told him that it would be off more than on so we had the tires loaded. He said that if it turned out that I was always using the machine with the backhoe. he would recommend not loading the tires.
The advantage would be that loaded tires add weight well below the tractor center of gravity, which increases side slope stability.
The backhoe adds rear ballast to offset loader weight and take some load off the front axle. But the weight may actually raise the center of gravity of the machine, and decrease side slope stability. All depends on where the backhoe COG is in relationship to the tractor's COG.
I have run four filled tires on my B2910 with backhoe for about 19 years (and about 1800 hours) now with no issues. My son in law has four foam filled tires on his BX23S for the purpose of increasing stability and eliminating front puncture issues. I have about 1400 hours and 18 years on my BX2200 with loaded front and rear tires, but no backhoe.
Over the years there have been a number of threads related to Kubota actually stating in some operator's manuals something as radical as recommending that one remove tire ballast when they install their backhoe...I believe the consensus has been that this is likely unnecessary, and that few if any do this.
I have been running my 23s with loaded tires for a while and I’m always switching between my BH and 3pt. Without the hoe and using the box blade as ballast when working, I noticed the tractor is a lot more stable and planted with the tires filled. With The weight of the BH on the back I don’t notice a difference with the rear tires loaded. If I didn’t run my 3Pt a lot, I probably wouldn’t have filled them.
I purchased an adapter for the tire valve, a bucket and a Bunch of RV antifreeze and used my spare sump pump to fill the tires. Total cost was under $120 cdn.
I purchased an adapter for the tire valve, a bucket and a Bunch of RV antifreeze and used my spare sump pump to fill the tires. Total cost was under $120 cdn.
Henro, you are absolutely correct about the Kubota manual recomending removal of the tire ballast when backhoe is attached. I could not conceive of any intelligent human actually doing that since that would be time consuming and aggravating at the least and costly if something other than water was used. Looks like this is simply another case of the manufacturer trying to cove their a**. Here again, me being new to tractors, I want to do things “proper”, but I know for sure there is the theoretical world and then there is the actual world where things get done. Thanks again everyone for your great advice and wisdom. Look forward to learning what I can from y’all and maybe I’ll have something sometime that will help others out there.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
There is a problem with running ballasted tires and the backhoe...... tire weight capacity.
have a look at the tire sidewall and see what it says, then read the fronts. Now figure out(fun exercise) that a BX23S weighs AND loader, bucket,BH AND bucket and operator and fuel, etc. OK ,easier maybe just run it over the local scales. My point is it can be easy to put too much weight onto the tires.
have a look at the tire sidewall and see what it says, then read the fronts. Now figure out(fun exercise) that a BX23S weighs AND loader, bucket,BH AND bucket and operator and fuel, etc. OK ,easier maybe just run it over the local scales. My point is it can be easy to put too much weight onto the tires.
ballast weight isn’t on the tires, it’s in the tires. BX23S weighs about 3000lbs set up ready as a TLB. I will keep running mine like this until I see a problem and if I run into an issue, I will post about it.
85Hokie
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Lets get something straight about ballasted tires........... it creates DOWNWARD force for the tractor - IT DOES NOT add weight TO the tractor itself !!!
SO ..... a backhoe is great counter weight for the FEL ..... and ballasted tires will help WITH the offset of FEL if the BH is not installed BUT .......... it will ONLY be effective when the tilting point starts. Let me explain.
Ballasted tires put pressure on the bottom most portion of the tire .... thus creating downforce..... It can onl be effective as counter weight once the tires START TO lift off the ground. Remember the force is only at the contact patch of the tire/ground.
Now wheel weights place weight ON the tractor - pressure down on the axle and the tire.
Ballast would be bad in the rears IF you raise the backhoe OFF the ground when using the outriggers. AND as most know, lifting the tires off the surface is not a good idea when digging ! (uneven surfaces may require one side to be jacked up higher) Tires on ground add great support for BH.
I have had my BX loaded since day 1 - 8 years later - no problems .... none....... BH stays on 100% too. On a downhill lay - I have raised the ass end off the ground digging with FEL too!
NewBie 23S owner here, 45 hours seat time.
I have weighted tires, I've worked quite a bit with my grapple high up in the air and the BH off the unit.
It needs ballast at the 3PH, no doubt in my mind.
I'll be getting some sort of ballast weights in the future.
Side note: I took off my weighted rear tire at one point, no idea what's in there, but it weighs a TON!
I have weighted tires, I've worked quite a bit with my grapple high up in the air and the BH off the unit.
It needs ballast at the 3PH, no doubt in my mind.
I'll be getting some sort of ballast weights in the future.
Side note: I took off my weighted rear tire at one point, no idea what's in there, but it weighs a TON!
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
re: .. it creates DOWNWARD force for the tractor - IT DOES NOT add weight TO the tractor itself !!!
yes... but you don't want that weight on the grass when cutting.
I assume that everyone using a BX23S as a 'lawn mower', removes the loader and BH attachments to reduce the overall weight of the 'mower' ? 'Turf tires' came out to distribute the weight of the mower to reduce the impact 'old skool' tires had.
yes... but you don't want that weight on the grass when cutting.
I assume that everyone using a BX23S as a 'lawn mower', removes the loader and BH attachments to reduce the overall weight of the 'mower' ? 'Turf tires' came out to distribute the weight of the mower to reduce the impact 'old skool' tires had.
Thanks everyone. These are some excellent points being made. This is exactly why I posted the question. To get real world answers from folks who know firsthand what does and does not work.
I live in a really wet area, I use a PTO finishing mower. there are parts of the yard that cant get cut for at least another month or so no matter what equipment you have. there is nary a difference with tire marks from the rear tires when mowing pre-post ballast. I found that the front tires do the most digging, so i started to remove my loader when mowing. an exception to that is traveling over a wet spot with the mower deck up, so i just leave it down so its weight is being supported by its own wheels.
I have to laugh because every time I read this statement my head starts to spin!
At the end of the day, I suppose it is all a matter of what one defines as being "the tractor". How about the tires the ballast is in? Do they add weight to the tractor? Oil in the engine, fuel in the fuel tank...do these things add weight to the tractor?
The tractor has a center of gravity. Ballast in the tires adds stability, so ballast in the tires must be lowering the center of gravity of the tractor. How can it do this if it is not part of the tractor? So it must add weight to the tractor itself...
I think I have seen weights given for tractors by manufacturers as being "without fluids," which would support your statement 85Hokie. But I think they imply the tractor will weigh more when fluids are added.
At this point I've concluded it is simply a matter of definition. My head is about to stop spinning now...
85Hokie
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Well - lets see if I can stop the spin ...........
WEIGHTS on the tractor are physically placing weight on the steel of the machine and then through the tires in the end.......... and all the fluids you mentioned do the same thing.......... THEY add weight to the tractor's frame and then THAT WEIGHT is transferred to the tires - the tires MUST carry the load of all that ..........
WEIGHT in the tires are not doing any of that ---- yes the tires are on the tractor, but the tractor does NOT carry ANY of the weight ..... that is UNTIL the tire begins to lift off the ground - then the tire acts on the tractor as added weight. Now - the CG is lowered, because most of the weight is below the axle thus when on a hillside the CG is closer to the ground than tires without ballast.
The weight in tires ONLY add stability WHEN a force is supplied on the opposite side thus causing the weighted side to lift!!! DOES that make any sense?
LET me see if I can simplify this ...........
you are on ice skates ........ you weigh 200 pounds and I place 50 pounds on your shoulders .......... you weigh 250 lbs right????
Now -I place the 50 lbs on your feet, and you are not picking them up, 50 pound skates....... you still weigh 250 .......... but YOU are not carrying the extra 50 pounds....... still spinning?
weighted tires and weights hanging are different but .,...... can be the same .....depending
What does "pre-post ballast" mean. I have some very wet spots.And hills. I have a B2601 on order with turf tires , mower and FEL. They are loading the rear tires. Was this a mistake?
I had the tractor for a few months before I filled the rear tires. So I’ve run on my lawn with both. What I mean is. After I tossed the RV antifreeze in, I didnt see a difference in my rears digging in more.
For my BX2200 I have a set of air filled turf tires, and a set of foam filled AG tires.
The 4 foam-filled tires in total weigh about 350 pounds more than the 4 air-filled tires.
Your thinking seems to be that my BX2200 tractor weighs the same regardless of which tires are on it. How can this be? Unless the tires are not considered part of the tractor. But in reality, they are part of the tractor, so must add weight to it.
(As compared to say a trailer a tractor is chained to. The trailer is not part of the tractor, and by definition would not add to the tractor's weight.)
You did say: "Lets get something straight about ballasted tires........... it creates DOWNWARD force for the tractor - IT DOES NOT add weight TO the tractor itself !!!"
Actually, this is just splitting hairs. Your perspective does not contradict anything with respect to the positive effect that ballast adds to tractor stability. Seems your view is that ballast only comes into play during an event, when a wheel or wheels lift off the ground. I see the ballast being there as part of the tractor at all times.
In a practical world, neither perspective changes the effect ballast in the tires has on tractor stability.