LX2610 how to slow loader drop?

[pokey1416]

I come from the skid steer world and all it took was some practice on the tractor. If I remember right the tractor is more sensitive than my skid. I’ve heard that Kubota is one of the only tractors that allows simultaneous movement - something I really use a lot. I’m beginning my dump cycle while approaching the trucks I think in the long term saves time and money. Added benefit is being able to adjust load while raising boom so far no contents on the hood. I probably just jinxed myself.

 

[leveraddict]

Pokey by now I think your wife would be searching some type of gutter leaf guard on the net! I put them on and have not cleaned gutters in 15 years!

 

[leveraddict]

Not trying to beat this dog to death, but since I only have experience with one loader (well guess I did get some training on a skid steer at work I guess), I am really curious now. Do you guys think what is mentioned in the highlighted text above is normal?

Certainly not normal in my small world...

Henro if it happens with a half bucket of light material id say theres a problem! I only have a bx and it only does it when the bucket is near maxed out.

 

[BX23S-1]

Henro if it happens with a half bucket of light material id say theres a problem! I only have a bx and it only does it when the bucket is near maxed out.

I have to agree with you on that. But i also would want to see it in person and watch the person running this loader to see whats really going on, before i make any judgement call. I have a BX23s, and it has always been sensitive when lowering the bucket. Even more sensitive when fully loaded. Nature of the beast.

 

[retired farmer]

The more weight in the bucket the faster it falls. Got something to do with gravity I think.

 

[Old_Paint]

Drop your RPM a little to make it more gentle until you are more practiced with the joystick. Part of the jerking will be when you feel like the load is dropping too fast and you're releasing the valve quickly, or perhaps even pulling it back a little too far and opening the raise valve. I do all the time, simply because I only have about 10 hours on my machine. What some don't realize about an FEL is that the boom is being pushed down as well as allowed to drop from gravity. And it's a pushing cylinder motion, which is a LOT stronger than a pulling motion. The FIRST step to setting a backhoe to dig is to raise the front wheels with the FEL before putting the outriggers down. If it was only gravity operated downward (like the 3 pt hitch lift) you couldn't do that, ergo, couldn't stabilize the backhoe. Combine the pushing force with gravity, and yep, it's gonna be pretty sensitive. I was nervous as a long-tailed cat is room full of rockin' chairs the first day I used my LX2610, and will say with some confidence that my wife and most of my neighbors had a few giggles while I was learning the FEL. The advantage I have over some new owners is that I grew up around old tractors, and have some experience with telehandlers and forklifts too. The FIRST thing to do is learn the sensitivity of the machine, and how much lever to give it to control it comfortably. Efficiency comes with experience, but who's in a hurry? A bad day on a tractor is a lot better than a good day at work.

The primary thing to remember is you're working with a lifted load. ALWAYS be gentle and go slow with heavy things lifted, especially when learning a new machine. Gravity works, and takes no vacation. Familiarity with the machine will be the best teacher.

 

[Ikc1990]

Yep practice, and don’t put your wife up in a basket until your very good at fine adjusting including raise/lower and curl/dump - simultaneously.
View attachment 50636

Unless you are working on an insurance claim. Hahaha just kiddding

 

[Old_Paint]

The bucket for example with a load in it drops quickly and really bounces the tractor around if not careful. Is there a way to add resistance in the hydraulic line when lowering it to not drop so quick? I know you can slightly control the drop, but it is extremely sensitive, then drops all of a sudden without warning. I don't ever see needing to drop the bucket so quickly even when empty. Anyone else experience this? Or do i just have to get used to it?

Stumbled up on this today.
W.R. Long, Inc. | Comfort Ride

 

[Orange man hero]

So the question is, do you have a problem with your loader control, or do you just have to get used to operating it?

Hard for anyone to answer accurately from this distance. Can only guess really.

How far away is your dealer? Perhaps you could visit and try out another loader for comparison?

What you have described does not sound right to me, but I only have experience with one loader, that which is on my B2910. But empty, the loader does not fall crazy fast at all, even if I put it in float and let it drop that way.

Try another loader for comparison, and you may get your answer.

My new LX2610 does same but I figure it's because of me?????

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

I just cannot seem to buy into the "you just need to practice" idea.

In my case, from day one I did not need any practice to operate my B2910 loader. It just worked as I would have expected. And still does after 18 years. Of course I could be an extremely talented loader operator, but that is highly doubtful.

Certainly it is possible to learn to counteract problems with equipment. Feather a control to an extreme degree if that control is excessively sensitive...in order to get satisfactory results kind of thing.

But do you guys with the same tractor as the OP really feel that your loader is so sensitive that you have to be extremely careful when you operate it?

IF so I would consider that a design deficiency at minimum. But would then agree that action to deal with such a deficiency, I.E., learning to deal with it, would be necessary.

I have a new LX3310 and am relatively new to small tractors. I am sure over time the valve will break-in a bit and I will become more skilled, but the valve does seem unnecessarily "binary" and too much caution is needed to "feather". I have operated other equipment that has more finely tuned hydraulic control, wish Kubota would have put a little more time on design of the FEL control - it could be better without a doubt.

 

[Old_Paint]

One would definitely think that a 3 foot long lever should give some selectivity, eh? It is sensitive, but I seem to get a little better every time I use it. They certainly are not proportional valves. I'm even getting better at combination moves (curling while raising, etc). Just need to work on my digging techniques a bit.

 

[SDT]

There is no restrictor or orifice in the LX series or the LA series. Very few manufactures have ever used a restrictor or orifice to control an AG loader lowering speed.

Agreed.

Use of a restricting orifice (without a one-way bypass valve) will slow FEL lift function equally.

SDT

 

[nbryan]

I find my B2650 loader control quite jumpy, as it was from new, and still is at nearly 600 hours. I've gotten used to it for the most part.
I do a few things to compensate for the valve's touchiness:

- Lower the engine rpm in situations that require a slower acting loader
- I stop the tractor, then put both hands on the lever for fine feather control when needed.
- Bracing my right elbow on the tractor fender also helps manage the fine lever pressure and movements.
-

The indents for boom float, and bucket dump, are also rather stiff to snap past especially the dumping action regen indent. The valve seems to pop past the indent suddenly and with little control. Again, if it's a situation needing finesse, slow the engine, grab the lever ball with both hands, and brace the elbow a bit.

Those are the stiff loader control coping methods I use daily. And my right arm has mostly learned the feel of the control so I'm no longer having to think so much about it.

Yet I still get unpleasantly surprised sometimes when a load lurches because of the jumpy controller.

It seems these models sport sensitive valves. So be it!

 

[RichAllyn]

I find my B2650 loader control quite jumpy, as it was from new, and still is at nearly 600 hours. I've gotten used to it for the most part.
I do a few things to compensate for the valve's touchiness:

- Lower the engine rpm in situations that require a slower acting loader
- I stop the tractor, then put both hands on the lever for fine feather control when needed.
- Bracing my right elbow on the tractor fender also helps manage the fine lever pressure and movements.
-

The indents for boom float, and bucket dump, are also rather stiff to snap past especially the dumping action regen indent. The valve seems to pop past the indent suddenly and with little control. Again, if it's a situation needing finesse, slow the engine, grab the lever ball with both hands, and brace the elbow a bit.

Those are the stiff loader control coping methods I use daily. And my right arm has mostly learned the feel of the control so I'm no longer having to think so much about it.

Yet I still get unpleasantly surprised sometimes when a load lurches because of the jumpy controller.

It seems these models sport sensitive valves. So be it!

I have the same learning thing to go thourgh with my bx23s. Does it make any sense if the lever could be adjusted to be stiffer to move you might gain more controler for a beginner?

 

[SinNH]

It took me about six snowstorms to get used to the very fast loader "drop" on my Bota with a heavy Woods bucket, still sometime I mess up but recover before ground contact. This is my first cab tractor, and I believe that there is definite loss of feel because of the cables used between the joystick and valves.

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

It took me about six snowstorms to get used to the very fast loader "drop" on my Bota with a heavy Woods bucket, still sometime I mess up but recover before ground contact. This is my first cab tractor, and I believe that there is definite loss of feel because of the cables used between the joystick and valves.

Mine is a ROPs, so if the cabs are worse then that is really not good. My guess is it is mostly in their choice of valves and not spending for "buffering" components in the hydraulic system.

 

[OrangeKrush]

Mine is very touchy also.. when lowering with any kind of load. I do not remember this being a problem on my previous tractor.. have to be very careful and get a lot more practice before I try anything critical with my pallet forks.

 

[Old_Paint]

I think it might have been a trade-off of using more expensive proportional valves and using a long stick to control the flow for the desired speed. I don't know if a different valve is used on the LX and B and BX, no idea. I would have thought they'd just make a different stick and gimble to operate it based on how long a stick they were going to put on it and where they were mounting it. You know, that parts commonality thing. Seems they realized moving the valve down under the seat would require a locking mechanism for the loader stick on the LX, which is nearly 3 feet long. It just interferes with gimble movement, and mechanically blocks the stick movement. Locking the gimble obviously locks the spools attached to it. Handy when you're not using a loader, but I can see where it would be real inconvenient for it to be something like a thumb latch when you ARE using the loader.

My WC-68 chipper has a latching valve that mechanically latches into place to keep the infeed roller turning forward or reverse. Or, maybe, the latch is pilot operated? The safety bar pivots at the top of the chute, and with the fulcrum nearly 28 inches from the valve, but still has enough mass to vibrate and cause the valve to constantly kick out of forward to the neutral position. Not a bad design, just finicky to adjust. The mechanical travel requirement is reversed with the lever mounted at the valve, which is only about 6 inches long. Travel on the valve spool I'd guess to be no more than about 1/4 - 3/8 inch. If it doesn't stay latched, it's a bit of a pain to constantly have to pull back out on the bar to start it again. There's an adjustment procedure, and I've used it, but it doesn't take much of a turn on the set screw in the valve to get it so that it won't come out of the neutral position at all. The set screw being in the center of the spool makes me think it may be pilot operated, but I haven't dug up an exploded view of the valve yet. More aggravating yet is that the machine must be stopped to adjust it (PTO stopped), with some warnings about adjusting the valve under pressure. You can't tell what the adjustment did until you start it back up. This makes it appear that the detent may have pilot pressure to help operate the spool latch. It's a matter of finding the sweet spot that works, but doesn't over do the intent. Too soft, it pops out of forward. Too hard, can't get it in forward. I'm thinking some nylon crush washers at the top of the safety bar might be in order to add a little friction to the bar instead of trying to do it all with the valve. The ends are held on with nylock nuts, so that tells me they're depending on bolt torque to hold the bar some. I just don't want all that metal to metal pressure with no lubrication points.

Pity we can't get a direct input from the Kubota engineers (or can we?) about the loader valves to ask them why a long lever and super stiffs springs are necessary or was thought to be a good design or why it doesn't give more selectivity. I think that a 'softer' stick would probably be the last thing you want to get smoother operation unless it had a longer travel. The long lever is certainly failing it's intent to soften up operation. Some valves use pilot pressure to help overcome header pressure to operate the valve. MAYBE that's what the adjustment is that's needed? If it's taking too much force to release a pilot valve, when it does release, it's gonna jolt pretty hard. I had to play that game with some hydraulic coil cars in a steel mill. Not nice to jerk 60000 pound coils at 1400 degrees around. They don't bounce good, and usually set stuff on fire if you drop them. I'm pretty sure the stick is flexing as much as it's moving the gimble, and that indicates a binding mechanical device. With that in mind, what's causing it to bind? I'd be willing to bet there's an adjustment procedure for the valves and gimbal linkage to attain best (smoothest?) operation. I just haven't found the shop manuals for the LX yet. Maybe a good careful study of that .......

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

I'm pretty sure the stick is flexing as much as it's moving the gimble,

With my lx3310 it does feel like a fair amount of early stick movement is stick bending and then at some point when the valve starts to move the valve snaps quickly to “catch up” with the stick position.

 

[Old_Paint]

With my lx3310 it does feel like a fair amount of early stick movement is stick bending and then at some point when the valve starts to move the valve snaps quickly to “catch up” with the stick position.

Yeah, that valve has just over 2000 PSI on it, so moving the spool ain't gonna be easy. Once the flow starts though, and the pressure is equalized on both sides of the spool, it'll move quite easy. That's built-in stiction from pressure differential that can only be overcome with a pilot. It isn't as bad with hydraulics as it is with air because of obvious lubrication differences, but the principle is the same. The big difference is hydraulic oil doesn't compress, air does.

It's kinda hard to see how much the stick is flexing before movement starts, because you're normally watching the bucket so you don't hit something with it or to make sure you're filling it up. You'd need the eyes of a chameleon lizard to do that, be from a particular state that I kid my sister-in-law about, or maybe two or three cameras so you could synch up the video. You and I have the same valve, same tractor basically, but yours just has a bigger engine. Pretty sure the pressure specs are the same, though. I've locked the gimble to see how much movement there is, and while it restricts movement enough to prevent valve operation, there's still a little wobble at the gimble. Has to be, or it would constantly bind up or jam because of dirt. 3 feet away, that translates to a lot of movement.