Paying off student dept...

[William1]

It would seem to be a complicated issue, eg the "for profit" outfits that have scammed a lot of students underlying a disproportionate number of students not able to pay back their loans. This is an interesting article about the complexities.

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/votervital/who-owes-all-that-student-debt-and-whod-benefit-if-it-were-forgiven/

The article is not clear and/or misleading. It talked of those students that went to a two or three year school Vs those that graduated from a four year. It does not state that those that went to a two or three year school graduated. It also ignore a massive number of students that never go beyond the first year (or really, semester) at any school.
Those 'one year' students are no better off (and some may say worse off) than a person never went beyond HS. They have debt and no 'qualification'.
Quite a few students drop out after one semester, get a loan for the entire second year and are not actually attending. The mindset again being 'I do not have to repay a student loan'. Or they get a loan for a full course load and take just the bare minimum, often just one class, one day a week.
The 'for profit' (and all the schools are 'for profit - no such thing as a true 'non-profit') two year schools are often a scam, companies that hire know the 'graduates' are not the best candidates. The students are led to believe the school will get them that great, high paying job and are usually met by disappointment. Some of the really bad ones were shut down over the last six years thankfully, but there are a bunch other that are really borderline.
I have a very hard time feeling sorry for the person with a PhD in 15th century French Literature who cannot get a 'big money' job.

 

[dirtydeed]

Yes, this is an interesting thread for sure. This very same issue was brought up by a friend of mine about 6 weeks ago. He was bitching because his daughters BF has 125K in student debt. My friend was trying to convince me that it was so unfair that this young man has been burdened by that much debt so early in life.

The end result of this conversation that we had was that I no longer consider him as a friend of mine. I don't feel one ounce guilty for this young man's debt. He made those choices himself. If you want to complain, then by all means have a discussion with your university of choice and ask them why they feel compelled to charge what they do for tuition.

I worked 30 hours a week as an auto tech (earning ASE certifications along the way) while attending college and carrying a full load each semester. I went to my classes while still in dirty auto tech uniforms...I didn't really care what anyone else thought. I always had money and I got very good grades as well. College was total boredom to me and quite a joke to see many others goof off, and ultimately fail.

Upon receiving my BS, I took a job within my area of study and returned to school to get my graduate degree. My employer at the time offered 100% tuition reimbursement (with good grades). Within three years, I had that graduate degree, and it was all paid for. I'm not sure how many companies offer that any more, but, perhaps its an option.

I would agree with some of the suggestions above...serve your country or community in order to pay off some of that debt. Put some skin in the game. But, if you think that I should be footing your tuition bill, you can take a hike as you haven't earned it like I did.

I also informed my former friend, that he should thank me for paying school taxes so his daughter could play soccer on a new turf field that cost us $1M...and I didn't have any kids to send to school.


PS. I have another friend who put off retirement so that he could send his pathetic son to the George Washington University (in DC). His son had a full ride to another university but didn't take that offer. He graduated with some BS degree from GWU (by that, I mean Bull Sht degree) and went on to get his Masters in a totally different field. Last I heard, he was working for a travel agency, booking vacations for people...because he was so smart, he knew the capitals of every country (they were so proud of this fact). Not sure what he's doing now...post pandemic. Not a whole lot of travel happening. This young man can't get up before noon each day.

Do you really want to be footing the bill for people like this?

 

[Poohbear]

It is simply, you borrowed the money so pay it back. We as a nation can't keep takeing care of the lazy be it a person or a nation. I worked my rear off working a full time job and going to school. Took me more than four years but no loan. My wife & I got our kids thru debt free but they were required to have a pt job & they had to live in a dorm. No fancy off campus luxury palace

 

[Kurtee]

You made the debt, you pay the debt. I pay mine they can too. No college degrees here, just worked and moved up. 45 years of the same job has taught me plenty. I have dealt with plenty of over educated idiots that these student loans help produce. Some of these people need to be realistic and fry burgers at the hamburger joint for a wage. Get a job and be a productive citizen. Pay your bills, quit whining.

 

[JimmyJazz]

What do those of us that couldn’t even think about college...what do we win

You might be better off.

 

[JimmyJazz]

Yes, this is an interesting thread for sure. This very same issue was brought up by a friend of mine about 6 weeks ago. He was bitching because his daughters BF has 125K in student debt. My friend was trying to convince me that it was so unfair that this young man has been burdened by that much debt so early in life.

The end result of this conversation that we had was that I no longer consider him as a friend of mine. I don't feel one ounce guilty for this young man's debt. He made those choices himself. If you want to complain, then by all means have a discussion with your university of choice and ask them why they feel compelled to charge what they do for tuition.

I worked 30 hours a week as an auto tech (earning ASE certifications along the way) while attending college and carrying a full load each semester. I went to my classes while still in dirty auto tech uniforms...I didn't really care what anyone else thought. I always had money and I got very good grades as well. College was total boredom to me and quite a joke to see many others goof off, and ultimately fail.

Upon receiving my BS, I took a job within my area of study and returned to school to get my graduate degree. My employer at the time offered 100% tuition reimbursement (with good grades). Within three years, I had that graduate degree, and it was all paid for. I'm not sure how many companies offer that any more, but, perhaps its an option.

I would agree with some of the suggestions above...serve your country or community in order to pay off some of that debt. Put some skin in the game. But, if you think that I should be footing your tuition bill, you can take a hike as you haven't earned it like I did.

I also informed my former friend, that he should thank me for paying school taxes so his daughter could play soccer on a new turf field that cost us $1M...and I didn't have any kids to send to school.


PS. I have another friend who put off retirement so that he could send his pathetic son to the George Washington University (in DC). His son had a full ride to another university but didn't take that offer. He graduated with some BS degree from GWU (by that, I mean Bull Sht degree) and went on to get his Masters in a totally different field. Last I heard, he was working for a travel agency, booking vacations for people...because he was so smart, he knew the capitals of every country (they were so proud of this fact). Not sure what he's doing now...post pandemic. Not a whole lot of travel happening. This young man can't get up before noon each day.

Do you really want to be footing the bill for people like this?

Well said.

 

[Lil Foot]

I worked with a young man who changed his major at least 5 times, spent 5 years in college, finished with a liberal arts degree, ran up $170K in student loans, and ended up as a technician with an aerospace concern.
He constantly sniveled that it was going to take him the rest of his life to pay off his loans.
I asked him who took out those loans, and he said "I did, what's that got to do with it?"
He believes he should not have to pay the loans, because he didn't end up with a million dollar a year job.
I asked who's fault is that, and he said "Not mine!"
This is the generation we will be handing things over to.
Sigh.

 

[GeoHorn]

Having just paid-off my daughters $230K law-school loan I can appreciate the attitude of some who think it’s a “give away” program or that forgiveness is equivalent to teaching lack-of-repsonsibility.... but that’s just not so. Education, regardless of how it’s paid or by whom, benefits ALL of society.
It’s defective thinking to say “I got mine.... Go get yours!” We don’t lift ourselves up by beating or holding others down.... We lift ourselves by lifting our fellow human beings up With ourselves.

The quote above which said, “I also informed my former friend, that he should thank me for paying school taxes so his daughter could play soccer on a new turf field that cost us $1M...and I didn't have any kids to send to school.”..... is another example of defective thinking. The world around-us is populated by either ignorant, low-educated, and low-earning society members.... and we can live surrounded in the kind of squalor and society that begets.... or we can raise our standard of living and our society by all making equal contributions. Just because YOU may not have children.. . YOU BENEFIT by having the children of others well-educated because ALL of us live in a better larger-community. Free Public Education is THE MAIN REASON the U.S. advanced so quickly ahead of the rest of the world. And the selfishness and loss of support of public education which has developed here in the last few decades has resulted in the rest of the world.... who COPIED our earlier example.... to accelerate ahead of us.

I had to sell off assets to pay my daughters expensive loan... and it would be easy to feel like it would be unfair to me and her for someone else to get their paid-off without them and their families suffering financial hardship. But I finally realized that is defective thinking.

”If Bubba can afford a new F-150 this year...we don’t have to worry about Ford Motor Co..... or our neighbors who work there.”

 

[jimh406]

Having just paid-off my daughters $230K law-school loan I can appreciate the attitude of some who think it’s a “give away” program or that forgiveness is equivalent to teaching lack-of-repsonsibility.... but that’s just not so. Education, regardless of how it’s paid or by whom, benefits ALL of society.

If the $230K for a law degree is worth it, you probably wouldn’t need to justify it. You would know that it’s an investment for the future. How many years before she recovers that cost?

The issue is there is mass inflation of costs because people are willing to pay it. That’s ok that you are willing to sacrifice to pay that much, but don’t push the bill to the rest of us.

Many of us know that “education” isn’t a problem. Ridiculous costs are the problem.

 

[D2Cat]

Having just paid-off my daughters $230K law-school loan I can appreciate the attitude of some who think it’s a “give away” program or that forgiveness is equivalent to teaching lack-of-repsonsibility.... but that’s just not so. Education, regardless of how it’s paid or by whom, benefits ALL of society.
It’s defective thinking to say “I got mine.... Go get yours!” We don’t lift ourselves up by beating or holding others down.... We lift ourselves by lifting our fellow human beings up With ourselves.

The quote above which said, “I also informed my former friend, that he should thank me for paying school taxes so his daughter could play soccer on a new turf field that cost us $1M...and I didn't have any kids to send to school.”..... is another example of defective thinking. The world around-us is populated by either ignorant, low-educated, and low-earning society members.... and we can live surrounded in the kind of squalor and society that begets.... or we can raise our standard of living and our society by all making equal contributions. Just because YOU may not have children.. . YOU BENEFIT by having the children of others well-educated because ALL of us live in a better larger-community. Free Public Education is THE MAIN REASON the U.S. advanced so quickly ahead of the rest of the world. And the selfishness and loss of support of public education which has developed here in the last few decades has resulted in the rest of the world.... who COPIED our earlier example.... to accelerate ahead of us.

I had to sell off assets to pay my daughters expensive loan... and it would be easy to feel like it would be unfair to me and her for someone else to get their paid-off without them and their families suffering financial hardship. But I finally realized that is defective thinking.

”If Bubba can afford a new F-150 this year...we don’t have to worry about Ford Motor Co..... or our neighbors who work there.”

Wouldn't it be nice of Bubba had his student loan paid off before he bought the NEW F-150, but loans are so easy that's not required, expected or taught

Society say to borrow money and earn good credit. Then borrow more money and earn/maintain good credit. And soon Bubba is in debt so deep he lives payday to payday with his nice income.

And if Bubba got the job with only HS education because his dad got him on part time and it then became full time, he's locked in for life there because he can't find another job that pays as well with the benefits any where else!

 

[BigG]

My father was able to pay for my schooling as he worked hard and saved money as well as lived without "extras". I worked and paid for my living expenses for every semester I was in school.

One of the first things that I did when I became a dad was to buy a state sponsored investment fund that pays the tuition. My boys have the funds for school. We did without and I worked 16-18 hours a day to make a living and my wife home schooled them. My eldest is almost done with his economics degree and he has worked the entire time he has been in school. My second son is well into his second year of an electricians apprenticeship. My third is on his way to becoming a mechanic while in his senior year of high school. All three have or about to graduate with GPA above a 4.0. The pride I feel for my boys is way bigger then any one can imagine.

My wife and I have worked hard to support my family and I do not think that anybody else needs to pay for them to become good citizens. My boys are well on their way without standing in line with their hands out saying someone else should be giving them money. Society can be better when you get off your lazy a$$ and work to improve it.

You want to eat? Find a job and earn some money to feed yourself. You want a house? Then pay for it yourself. You want a college education? Then work for it.

 

[skeets]

I did not co sign for their loans, why should I pay for them?

 

[chim]

While it does benefit us to have a well-educated society, it does not benefit us to all pitch in so everyone gets a free college degree. Free college will be worth what free public education is if we take that route. If the income generated from one's chosen field is such that the cost of the schooling cannot be repaid by that individual, it sounds like a bad career choice.

There was a time when K-12 public education prepared students for life. Today that isn't the case. Check the stats on the math and reading levels of high schools grads today.

Our three sons completed college and came out debt free. That is because they WORKED. We didn't qualify for any assistance or give-away programs but we paid taxes to support those who did.

 

[random]

My son is finishing his AAS in June, with a total out of pocket cost of about $1000. The rest was scholarships (we don't qualify for any grants), but even paying cash it would have been maybe $5-6000. Now he's transferring to a 4-year to complete his BS and we're expecting the total cost (without considering scholarships) to be around $15,000 - so that's about $20,000 total for a degree that nets him a job with a starting salary around $70k.

There are options to spending 4 years at a prestigious university paying $50k/year, if you look for them.

As for the current cost of college - anyone remember what happened when we made it super-easy for people to buy houses? It's basic supply & demand at work here.

Maybe it's not a bad thing, though - the trades are hurting and could use more people taking that path instead of a degree. You can already do better as an experienced plumber or electrician than many people with graduate degrees are doing.

 

[dirtydeed]

My son is finishing his AAS in June, with a total out of pocket cost of about $1000. The rest was scholarships (we don't qualify for any grants), but even paying cash it would have been maybe $5-6000. Now he's transferring to a 4-year to complete his BS and we're expecting the total cost (without considering scholarships) to be around $15,000 - so that's about $20,000 total for a degree that nets him a job with a starting salary around $70k.

There are options to spending 4 years at a prestigious university paying $50k/year, if you look for them.

As for the current cost of college - anyone remember what happened when we made it super-easy for people to buy houses? It's basic supply & demand at work here.

Maybe it's not a bad thing, though - the trades are hurting and could use more people taking that path instead of a degree. You can already do better as an experienced plumber or electrician than many people with graduate degrees are doing.

Well done and well said Random.

I never could figure out why more students don't take advantage of community colleges for the first two years (to find themselves, if needed). The credits will transfer, the cume does not (at least it didn't when I was in school). So, when you start your junior year, you start with a fresh 4.0!

Regarding trades...for sure. My wife is the GM of a sizeable plumbing business. Those plumbers are very well paid and without the baggage of higher education. They will always be employable and will never go hungry.

 

[fog107]

College education? Maybe they should try the school of hard knocks? Their you learn to pay for yourself!

 

[random]

College education? Maybe they should try the school of hard knocks? Their you learn to pay for yourself!

The lessons tend to stick better and are more practical for daily life, too.

 

[Poohbear]

College education? Maybe they should try the school of hard knocks? Their you learn to pay for yourself!

I have a cousin with a Harvard MBA. Really booksmart but so little common sense wouldn't know to pour piss out of a boot

 

[BigG]

My nieces' boy friend is a MIT grad in Mechanical Engineering, but delivers pizzas. He is so stupid that he can not pass a pee test. Think Ching and Chong.

Makes me want to pay for his education. NOT!!!!!!!!

 

[Poohbear]

As I said our kids with our help got thru with no debt but our Son after getting married after college decides to go to law school. He is pretty good with money as he paid his law school loans off in a couple years. He does civil law specializing finance/banking and he has taken the bar exam in enough states he can , thru reprociry, practice in every state but Louisiana.
A friend growing up got his loans paid off by the Feds back in the 70's. He earned every dime they paid out. He went to dental school and was really heavy in debt . He indentured himself to the Dept of Interior and worked on Indian Reservations for several years. He did make a very small salary along with housing/meals. He said was the best hunting trips you could imagine especially when he was in Alaska. That's the only way I see forgiving student loans should be done, giving back for awhile.