I'm fairly new to diesel engines so starting in the -20 c is a little tough with my B7200. I use my glo plugs for a 60 count, decompression for a five count and it usually starts. My question is how long can you safely leave the key on engaging the starter.
Cold weather starts
- Thread starter Berry
- Start date
85Hokie
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Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
If you have to hold the key longer than 10 seconds - I would check the condition of the glow plugs and or compression of the engine itself..
A 60 second glow - should be a plenty to heat the cylinder head area - but if they are not working, or one of them is not working, it screws the pooch and will make starting cold a real PITA.
Simple to check for glow plugs - unhook top lead - use OHM meter set to lowest setting and place one lead on top of plug and one on good ground (make sure to take wire off to test) - reading should be very close to zero - ONE is a excellent number.
A 60 second glow - should be a plenty to heat the cylinder head area - but if they are not working, or one of them is not working, it screws the pooch and will make starting cold a real PITA.
Simple to check for glow plugs - unhook top lead - use OHM meter set to lowest setting and place one lead on top of plug and one on good ground (make sure to take wire off to test) - reading should be very close to zero - ONE is a excellent number.
Thanks Hokie; ive never counted the key part i wouldnt think it was more then 10 seconds. To busy focussing on the chugs and smoke looking for it to level out. I have measured the glow plugs with .95 ohms, wire off. I also have a spare set ready to change . Not looking forward to it as it appears to be a bit of a task and no indoor shop. I believe I have to remove the manifolds on the B7200. A warm summer job it will be. I'm really only concerned at the moment how long I can keep the starter engaged before i could do damage to it.
85Hokie
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Good to know the glow plugs are good! A compression check in the future will tell you the condition of the engine and may be part of the cold starting problem.
Have you thought about a block heater or lower radiator heater to help with the cold starts?
The lightweight, permanent magnet starters used on modern equipment are less susceptible to overheating because they lack field-coils, but virtually identical after-market starters are used on aircraft conversions.
The starter limitations for the newer, smaller, permanent magnet types similar to those used on most equipment mfr’d since 1995:
10 seconds ON (turning the engine over) 20 seconds OFF for up to SIX events, then 30 minutes cooling.
(Ten seconds is a looong time, if you count it: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, ......)
For old “legacy” type starters (Delco-Remy, Prestolite/Ford) :
10 seconds ON, 60 seconds (full minute) OFF for up to THREE events, then 30 minutes OFF.
(I know few people follow this one. I opine that most folks will try a start for at least three events before they even consider they have a serious starting-problem.... but if you don’t like crawling under and changing the starter.... it’s a good idea to follow those mfr’ recommendations.)
For all types: While cranking a LOT of Amperage flows thru that starter making more HEAT than you might imagine. In fact, after about three events you likely cannot keep your hand on the starter.
If you violate these recommendations you risk melting solder and varnish/insulation and burning the internal coils which will permanently damage the starter. In a worst-case scenario, a piggy-back solenoid can “stick” and cause a fire.
The starter limitations for the newer, smaller, permanent magnet types similar to those used on most equipment mfr’d since 1995:
10 seconds ON (turning the engine over) 20 seconds OFF for up to SIX events, then 30 minutes cooling.
(Ten seconds is a looong time, if you count it: One Mississippi, Two Mississippi, ......)
For old “legacy” type starters (Delco-Remy, Prestolite/Ford) :
10 seconds ON, 60 seconds (full minute) OFF for up to THREE events, then 30 minutes OFF.
(I know few people follow this one. I opine that most folks will try a start for at least three events before they even consider they have a serious starting-problem.... but if you don’t like crawling under and changing the starter.... it’s a good idea to follow those mfr’ recommendations.)
For all types: While cranking a LOT of Amperage flows thru that starter making more HEAT than you might imagine. In fact, after about three events you likely cannot keep your hand on the starter.
If you violate these recommendations you risk melting solder and varnish/insulation and burning the internal coils which will permanently damage the starter. In a worst-case scenario, a piggy-back solenoid can “stick” and cause a fire.
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I will do a compression test and I do use a block heater when the temps really drop. We are 100% off grid so power is limited. I like the idea of the lower rad heater as there does not seem to be much space to mount the block heater. I use a magnetic one on the oil pan and still a real tight spot.
.
Thanks for the help
JohnMackenzie
New member
Equipment
B6200, L3901, LA525, BH77, MK Martin 60" Mower, Agrotrend C60, ect.
Usually 10 seconds won't hurt as long as you give it time to cool down, in the winter it would be less time than in the summer, on my b6200 I've gone for 20 seconds but gave it two minutes or so before doing it again, that's usually main reason for starter failure, it overheating and continuing to run the starter, I'm sure many other people will have their own opinion on that but 5 seconds is ideal, 10 is a bit much, 15 is pushing it, and 20 like I've done is borderline stupid on any vehicle let alone a diesel, but it was the original starter from 1989, in its later years the starter had to be replaced anyway and it always had winter starting problems, never really made any noticeable difference but I really don't recommend doing that, 10 won't hurt it, but let it cool down if it doesn't start in that time, and like Hokie said I'd check other things and use a block heater, it's worth not having the headaches if you need to plow or snowblower. My 6200 issues were the glow plugs, the compression lever getting stuck ever so slightly open, and the dynamo not charging anymore due to the previous owner, which also led to the glow plug failure and going through batteries every two years
Great info! Thus is 1985 era. I will be carefulThe lightweight, permanent magnet starters used on modern equipment are less susceptible to overheating because they lack field-coils, but virtually identical after-market starters are used on aircraft conversions.
The starter limitations for the newer, smaller, permanent magnet types similar to those used on most equipment mfr’d since 1995:
10 seconds ON (turning the engine over) 20 seconds OFF for up to SIX events, then 30 minutes cooling.
For old “legacy” type starters (Delco-Remy, Prestolite/Ford) :
10 seconds ON, 60 seconds (full minute) OFF for up to THREE events, then 30 minutes OFF.
If you violate these recommendations you risk melting solder and varnish/insulation and burning the internal coils which will permanently damage the starter. In a worst-case scenario, a piggy-back solenoid can “stick” and cause a fire.
It has been single digits here. Negative overnight. My BX2200 sits in an unheated detached building. I glow for 10 seconds and it fires up with almost no cranking. It does run a little rough for a few seconds and belch some black smoke, but that clears up and I am good to go.
For starting a diesel the key pieces are working GPs, good compression, starter that turns over fast and a charged battery. If any of those pieces are weak, then cold weather starting can be challenging.
For starting a diesel the key pieces are working GPs, good compression, starter that turns over fast and a charged battery. If any of those pieces are weak, then cold weather starting can be challenging.
During the starter 'cooldown'... do not forget to be glowing again. Your battery never gets a rest because it is either glowing -or- cranking.
Hence - do your battery a favor and hook up the trickle-charger when you are done using your tractor.
Hence - do your battery a favor and hook up the trickle-charger when you are done using your tractor.
Thanks to all who offered there knowledge I'm well within the timing that has been suggested. Come warmer weather, I will be doing a compression test and replacing the glow plugs. I would also like to install an inline heater.