Negotiating on B 2601 - Web Build Price vs Dealer

[Mossy dell]

When I got my 2601 a couple months ago, the whole thing was done via email due to COVID. It was great. Took some back and forth but the Equine discount kinda took the BS away. Just a straight 20% off MSRP......then it was down to which implements etc. I didn't have to deal with getting the insurance......but if you finance be prepared for that $ as it is not a small sum.

Prior to the equine discount it was basically 100% MSRP.

The dealer prep fee was worth it in my mind as they deal with all the assembly of everything including my implements which saved me time and grief.

River, it worked like you said. Seems no biggie to my salesman that I am entitled to a much bigger discount as a member of the National Cutting Horse Association.

Do you or anyone know if using the equine discount wipes out the $700 rebate Kubota is now offering on implements? I'll still come out ahead, if so, but I wonder. I do not see that stipulation on Kubota's web site but may have missed it.

 

[Mossy dell]

Follow up. My salesman first thought the equine program wipes out the cash discount, though see the language that I highlighted below. But when I sent the paragraph to him, he said it appears he was wrong and will check. Look at what I also highlighted, dealer prep. That was built in before, and now he plans to/has to put numbers to it. Possibly he'll slap those numbers on top of his previous numbers that already included prep.

It may be time for me to try another dealer. On the other hand, if something sounds too good to be true, maybe it is. I wonder if the equine program works best on bigger tractors where the tractor's base price is much higher than the B2601 I'm looking at.

Bottom line, however, is I likely won't end up with 20% off but will get a quote that's less than what I have now.

* ｩ Kubota Tractor Corporation, 2020. Up to 20% off MSRP on select models plus Standard Rate Financing (Promotional Rate Financing not Applicable). KTC reserves the right to cancel this program entirely, modify or amend any aspect at any time without prior notice. Purchase price is eligible for cash or applicable standard rate finance offers. MSRP for base equipment. Excludes dealer delivery, set up, and assembly fees, freight, taxes, and any finance charges. Optional equipment not included. Equipment image shown is for illustration purposes only and may not be base equipment. Please see your dealer for details or KubotaUSA.com. This program applies only to members in good standing with the National Cutting Horse Association and other qualifying national or regional equine organizations. Please see dealer for details. Offer expires 12/31/20.

 

[Alpo]

Follow up. My salesman first thought the equine program wipes out the cash discount, though see the language that I highlighted below. But when I sent the paragraph to him, he said it appears he was wrong and will check. Look at what I also highlighted, dealer prep. That was built in before, and now he plans to/has to put numbers to it. Possibly he'll slap those numbers on top of his previous numbers that already included prep.

It may be time for me to try another dealer. On the other hand, if something sounds too good to be true, maybe it is. I wonder if the equine program works best on bigger tractors where the tractor's base price is much higher than the B2601 I'm looking at.

Bottom line, however, is I likely won't end up with 20% off but will get a quote that's less than what I have now.

* ｩ Kubota Tractor Corporation, 2020. Up to 20% off MSRP on select models plus Standard Rate Financing (Promotional Rate Financing not Applicable). KTC reserves the right to cancel this program entirely, modify or amend any aspect at any time without prior notice. Purchase price is eligible for cash or applicable standard rate finance offers. MSRP for base equipment. Excludes dealer delivery, set up, and assembly fees, freight, taxes, and any finance charges. Optional equipment not included. Equipment image shown is for illustration purposes only and may not be base equipment. Please see your dealer for details or KubotaUSA.com. This program applies only to members in good standing with the National Cutting Horse Association and other qualifying national or regional equine organizations. Please see dealer for details. Offer expires 12/31/20.

Do you think the equine discount will continue in 2021?

 

[Mossy dell]

Alpo, it says right at the bottom of the paragraph the offer expires at the end of this December. Now they may renew it. And there will be other programs.

 

[Alpo]

Yes, I saw that....that's why I asked. I should re-phrase: do forum members who have been around for a while confirm that there is a similar equine discount every year? I was planning my purchase for next year but don't want to lose out on this discount. Thanks

 

[Mossy dell]

Yeah, I hope some folks with more long term experience buying respond. I have owned two Kubotas and a Deere but that was years ago now and everything has changed.

 

[Alpo]

Found this on the NCHA website. I'd think the discount will continue for another 2 years:

Kubota Named Official Equipment Provider of the National Cutting Horse Association
Kubota Tractor Corporation announces becoming an Official Corporate Partner and the Official Equipment Provider of the National Cutting Horse Association (NCHA) based in Fort Worth, Texas. With this new partnership which runs through 2022, Kubota equipment will be exclusively used to maintain the facilities for all five shows produced by NCHA each year.

“The National Cutting Horse Association and the sport of cutting’s heritage has roots that run deep and Kubota is proud to support this time-honored competition,” said Todd Stucke, senior vice president of marketing, product support, and strategic products for Kubota Tractor Corporation. “The Kubota equipment chosen for this partnership was manufactured with equine and cattle applications in mind, and we’re looking forward to supporting the National Cutting Horse Association at the highest level for years to come.”

Included in the three-year partnership, NCHA staff will take the reins of Kubota’s M5-091 and M6S-111 utility tractors; the SSV65 skid steer loader; and the RTV-XG850 Sidekick and RTV-X1140 utility vehicles. The equipment will be used to do everything from preparing and maintaining show venues, like the historic Will Rogers Memorial Center in Fort Worth, Texas, to feeding cattle and transporting equipment and personnel around the facilities. Also included in the partnership, Kubota will offer an exclusive product-purchase discount program for NCHA members for tractors, implements and attachments, turf equipment and utility vehicles.

“We are thrilled to welcome Kubota as an Official NCHA Corporate Partner” said Jay Winborn, executive director, National Cutting Horse Association. “With Kubota’s reputation for producing top quality equipment across the turf and agriculture sectors, paired with an exclusive discount program, this partnership fills NCHA members’ need for reliable equipment at a tremendous value. We are grateful for the commitment that Kubota has made to the NCHA and look forward to their involvement for many years.”

To learn more about Kubota’s show-worthy lineup of equipment and NCHA member discounts, visit www.kubotausa.com.

 

[doublebass73]

They (Big K) will always make their money - period, but if you borrow ANYONES money at 0% ..... then paying off early is ...... well .... stupid!!!! And that monthly payment gets easier every month too!!!!

I have to disagree that paying off any loan early is stupid, even at 0%. In the case of a Kubota at 0% you still have to pay mandatory KTAC insurance over the life of the loan which in the case of my L2501 was about $1700 so there's that savings, not a huge amount but still significant.

On top of that, the main reason for paying off any loan early, even at 0% is so that you actually own whatever you financed rather than the bank owning it. It's all about risk especially in an era where the government feels the need to shutdown people's businesses and livelihoods.

If you pay off your tractor early you own it and it can't ever be repossessed. If you take the risk of stretching your payments out over 60 months or 84 months just because your loan is 0% then you get laid off from your job and can no longer afford the payments you lose your tractor and every payment you ever made to Kubota finance. When the economy crashed in 2008 I knew people that were unemployed for 1.5 to 2 years. Are people who pay things off early while they have the money in order to mitigate that risk stupid? I don't think so.

 

[B737]

if you lose your job, and dont have the money in the bank to pay off the tractor there may be other problems going on...

 

[doublebass73]

if you lose your job, and dont have the money in the bank to pay off the tractor there may be other problems going on...

I'd be willing to wager that most people who finance tractors don't have the money in the bank to pay it off, at least in America where over 70% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...ns-are-living-paycheck-to-paycheck-2020-01-07

 

[85Hokie]

I have to disagree that paying off any loan early is stupid, even at 0%. In the case of a Kubota at 0% you still have to pay mandatory KTAC insurance over the life of the loan which in the case of my L2501 was about $1700 so there's that savings, not a huge amount but still significant.

On top of that, the main reason for paying off any loan early, even at 0% is so that you actually own whatever you financed rather than the bank owning it. It's all about risk especially in an era where the government feels the need to shutdown people's businesses and livelihoods.

If you pay off your tractor early you own it and it can't ever be repossessed. If you take the risk of stretching your payments out over 60 months or 84 months just because your loan is 0% then you get laid off from your job and can no longer afford the payments you lose your tractor and every payment you ever made to Kubota finance. When the economy crashed in 2008 I knew people that were unemployed for 1.5 to 2 years. Are people who pay things off early while they have the money in order to mitigate that risk stupid? I don't think so.

Well - Let me explain why I said what I said - WHEN you borrow money, like a car or a house, you have paid all the interest in the early months/years of the loan. The back side of the loan is only principle. Thus paying that last tail end off early is not cost effective. AND at ZERO percent ---- borrowing someone else's money for a long duration means you can use YOUR money anytime you wish/ how you wish! You cannot get the money BACK out of the tractor (borrow against) - but you can stretch the money through time and not pay anything to do so!

As for getting laid off from work - One cannot buy something in fear of what may or may not happen to them in the future - living, especially now has risks, some of us should not be taking those, while others can do it without the fear.

AS for being laid off - yes, I get it - sht happens ........

AS for the Kubota insurance - again, not sure I get what you are saying, I paid $1,000 (cause I had to) in K insurance - thrown INTO the loan..... a five year note, %0 .......... why in my right mind would I pay it off early?????????? If I DID - I would NOT have the insurance on the tractor I have ALREADY paid for!!!!

Now - if you got insurance through someone else - still paying off the 0% early has no rational, OTHER than the fact that you are finished paying!.

As an old bird once told me ........... in a 30 year mortgage, the large amount of money you pay BACK is not the same value of the money day ONE! Now this is not a consideration on a 5 year note.

I would love to borrow money from someone .... even at 1% ..... lets me have $250,000 for 5 years at 1%............... I cannot wait to pay monthly! (cause if I make 2% - I am money ahead!

 

[doublebass73]

Well - Let me explain why I said what I said - WHEN you borrow money, like a car or a house, you have paid all the interest in the early months/years of the loan. The back side of the loan is only principle. Thus paying that last tail end off early is not cost effective. AND at ZERO percent ---- borrowing someone else's money for a long duration means you can use YOUR money anytime you wish/ how you wish! You cannot get the money BACK out of the tractor (borrow against) - but you can stretch the money through time and not pay anything to do so!

As for getting laid off from work - One cannot buy something in fear of what may or may not happen to them in the future - living, especially now has risks, some of us should not be taking those, while others can do it without the fear.

AS for being laid off - yes, I get it - sht happens ........

AS for the Kubota insurance - again, not sure I get what you are saying, I paid $1,000 (cause I had to) in K insurance - thrown INTO the loan..... a five year note, %0 .......... why in my right mind would I pay it off early?????????? If I DID - I would NOT have the insurance on the tractor I have ALREADY paid for!!!!

Now - if you got insurance through someone else - still paying off the 0% early has no rational, OTHER than the fact that you are finished paying!.

As an old bird once told me ........... in a 30 year mortgage, the large amount of money you pay BACK is not the same value of the money day ONE! Now this is not a consideration on a 5 year note.

I would love to borrow money from someone .... even at 1% ..... lets me have $250,000 for 5 years at 1%............... I cannot wait to pay monthly! (cause if I make 2% - I am money ahead!

I understand the mathematics of not paying the loan off at 0%. All I was saying is that there's nothing stupid about paying it off early either. You completely eliminate risk by paying it off early. Stretching out payments over 7 years comes with the risk of getting laid off from your job during that time, that's a fact that you yourself just admitted. Whether a person wants to take that risk or not is up to them. Everyone has their own financial situation but I don't agree that paying a loan off early to eliminate the risk of losing your investment is stupid. There's nothing stupid about paying a home off early either. 0% of paid off homes are foreclosed on.

 

[NHSleddog]

I understand the mathematics of not paying the loan off at 0%. All I was saying is that there's nothing stupid about paying it off early either. You completely eliminate risk by paying it off early. Stretching out payments over 7 years comes with the risk of getting laid off from your job during that time, that's a fact that you yourself just admitted. Whether a person wants to take that risk or not is up to them. Everyone has their own financial situation but I don't agree that paying a loan off early to eliminate the risk of losing your investment is stupid. There's nothing stupid about paying a home off early either. 0% of paid off homes are foreclosed on.

My only comment is this is not a one or the other issue.

Just because he chooses to use someone else's money does not mean he will loose his job or be laid off or loose his tractor.

Also if KTAC is the only insurance (already paid for the life) and you pay off early, you will get the balance back. If you blow up your tractor the next day (or it lights on fire etc.) , that will be on you, and YOU will feel awefully foolish for "paying off early". Nothing wrong with USING OPM. the key is to USE it.

MOST loans are paid off.

 

[doublebass73]

My only comment is this is not a one or the other issue.

Just because he chooses to use someone else's money does not mean he will loose his job or be laid off or loose his tractor.

Also if KTAC is the only insurance (already paid for the life) and you pay off early, you will get the balance back. If you blow up your tractor the next day (or it lights on fire etc.) , that will be on you, and YOU will feel awefully foolish for "paying off early". Nothing wrong with USING OPM. the key is to USE it.

MOST loans are paid off.

By the same token, just because you pay off early and cancel your insurance does not mean your tractor is going to blow up or catch on fire. Just like taking a loan does not mean someone is going to lose their job as you said.

It's all risk assessment. When you buy insurance you're betting that something bad is going to happen to your tractor and the insurance company is betting that nothing bad will happen to your tractor. When you take a loan you're betting that you're not going to lose your job.

We all have to decide for ourselves how much risk we are willing to take. My ONLY point was that it's NOT stupid to pay something off early to eliminate the risk of losing your tractor if you lose your job. When you pay off your tractor it's up to you whether you want to save on the insurance money or continue betting something bad will happen to your tractor. If I had a high dollar tractor I'd probably continue the insurance the same way I would get full coverage on a car with a high book value. I'm not anti insurance at all, I only mentioned it because it is a potential savings if you choose to pay off a 0% financed tractor.

 

[mikester]

google "price anchor msrp"

 

[Mossy dell]

Right, mikester. Pricing is a game manufacturer's and dealers play to make sales and to profit. A while back, on cars, I felt I'd cracked the code by finding online the supposed actual cost of a car to a dealer. Everyone was doing that, the word was out. Going on memory here as to what the information actually was but it purportedly involved "actual cost" in some way. Anyway, very soon dealers started using that same information. I guess prices are/were padded or manipulated in a new way. Or profit in car sales became more of a volume thing.

"My" big Kubota dealer 2.5 hrs away was right at msrp. I found them not very negotiable beyond that. But I'd heard good things about them. And more to the point, they are opening a big new branch 20 minutes from my house. The consensus from folks on here, on an off board, is I'd do better from a smaller dealer. Probably true. But other dealers are also not exactly nearby, and I wanted to get the best price from the dealer who is opening nearby.

Dealers have to make money! And we should want them them to, should want to support the services we need from them. But no one wants to be a chump buyer.

So I joined the equine program. The dealer took away Kubota's $700 equipment rebate and $1,000 cash discount. The latter was in direct contradiction to how I read Kubota's language in the equine program. But the language is mushy, and I figured I'd still do better. Bottom line: I got another $1,000 off. So I probably got a small dealer price, or possibly $500 over that.

On price anchoring from Wikipedia:

[When] an individual depends too heavily on an initial piece of information offered (considered to be the "anchor") to make subsequent judgments . . . Once the value of this anchor is set, all future negotiations, arguments, estimates, etc. are discussed in relation to the anchor. Information that aligns with the anchor tends to be assimilated toward it, while information that is more dissonant or less related tends to be displaced.

The implication is that the MSRP is heavily padded so dealers can come in below it, look good, and still make money. I'm sure that's true.

 

[sn0wman72]

My experience is that you can get X% off MSRP, the amount you may "save" at purchase does not make up for the service you will receive from a good dealer/customer relationship

This becomes espically true as the years pass, honestly can not recall the discount I received in the purchase of a B2601 a year ago, yet I do recall the name of the sales agent and the relationship created

 

[Docpraise]

I got my B2601 last month from my local dealer in Eastern Kentucky. Both the tractor and attachments were quoted at right about 10% off of list price. The rebate covered the taxes and part of the insurance.

 

[random]

My experience is that you can get X% off MSRP, the amount you may "save" at purchase does not make up for the service you will receive from a good dealer/customer relationship

This becomes espically true as the years pass, honestly can not recall the discount I received in the purchase of a B2601 a year ago, yet I do recall the name of the sales agent and the relationship created

I managed to find a really good dealer. Heard (secondhand) from someone in the area that THEIR dealer was giving them a hassle about something, then they went to mine and got it taken care of right away.

When I was originally shopping, that was the advice I got more than anything else: shop the dealer, not the tractor.

 

[TomRC]

Some of the dealers are not even aware of the equine discount until you bring it to their attention. And even once aware of or even if they were aware the price they come up with will vary. Visit ALL dealers within a reasonable drive that can provide service after the fact. I can ASSURE you the equine discount can save you A LOT!!!!! Kubota pricing is ALL OVER THE BOARD! On a recent purchase of a B2601 and some implements I saw almost a $5k spread in pricing!