Another question about New BX23S .. Broken bolt on Backhoe

[cuzmarc]

I was all excited to know that the o-ring issue was not a big deal so I went out and was playing around getting used to the backhoe. I was letting my son run the controls for a bit and I notice an orange piece on the ground. Low and behold its a bolt head and for sure from the new unit. I was able to find the spot where it came from. There is no way that should have happened from what little i have done with the back hoe.

I was looking and it seems they may have forgot to grease that pin. All the other grease fittings were new and the one on this pin was solid orange, no way grease is getting through that. I noticed that i cannot see any grease coming out anywhere on that pin like the others. The arm seems to be all the way to the left so much that the square spacer wont turn.

I went and purchased some fittings and replaced it, and a new bolt. Now when I test it, there is a noticeable spot where it makes a click noise and seems to hang up on something.

Am I on the right track here or should I be looking for something else? I am thinking it needs to go back to the dealer to be looked at.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I was all excited to know that the o-ring issue was not a big deal so I went out and was playing around getting used to the backhoe. I was letting my son run the controls for a bit and I notice an orange piece on the ground. Low and behold its a bolt head and for sure from the new unit. I was able to find the spot where it came from. There is no way that should have happened from what little i have done with the back hoe.

I was looking and it seems they may have forgot to grease that pin. All the other grease fittings were new and the one on this pin was solid orange, no way grease is getting through that. I noticed that i cannot see any grease coming out anywhere on that pin like the others. The arm seems to be all the way to the left so much that the square spacer wont turn.

I went and purchased some fittings and replaced it, and a new bolt. Now when I test it, there is a noticeable spot where it makes a click noise and seems to hang up on something.

Am I on the right track here or should I be looking for something else? I am thinking it needs to go back to the dealer to be looked at.

Maybe. You did grease it until grease came out both sides? Book says grease every 8 - 10 hours, right?

 

[85Hokie]

First thing I see .....there is NO grease on the zerk as you mentioned .
Lack of grease would and could bind the two pieces of metal and caused the pin to pivot.

I have a friend that bought a used Kubota .....about 500 hours and one of the pins in the FEL had NEVER been greased - rather the grease never got to the pin..... it took an hour to get THAT pin to move and to take grease! And that awful noise went away too!

Looking at the bolt - is seems that it was sheared, snapped at the depth of the pin where meeting the boss. I would look down that hole and see if the hole is STILL lined up with the two holes on the outside of the boss.

And as you mentioned.... take it to the dealer - IF they forgot the grease....then THEY can replace the bolt...and the pin... and anything else!

I would really press the dealer on the fact that IT HAS NOT BEEN greased..... and do not let them say it has ........ once that pin is tapped out, it will be clear that it does not have grease on it. AND if the pin spun - IT too needs to be replaced, and well as .... the whole assembly if need be ( that click noise!!!)


DO NOT let this deter you.... one small overlook happens sometimes, but you will find this machine to be a beast and can do almost anything.... even if one small bite at a time!!!!

Let us know how this turns out!

 

[cuzmarc]

First thing I see .....there is NO grease on the zerk as you mentioned .
Lack of grease would and could bind the two pieces of metal and caused the pin to pivot.

I have a friend that bought a used Kubota .....about 500 hours and one of the pins in the FEL had NEVER been greased - rather the grease never got to the pin..... it took an hour to get THAT pin to move and to take grease! And that awful noise went away too!

Looking at the bolt - is seems that it was sheared, snapped at the depth of the pin where meeting the boss. I would look down that hole and see if the hole is STILL lined up with the two holes on the outside of the boss.

And as you mentioned.... take it to the dealer - IF they forgot the grease....then THEY can replace the bolt...and the pin... and anything else!

I would really press the dealer on the fact that IT HAS NOT BEEN greased..... and do not let them say it has ........ once that pin is tapped out, it will be clear that it does not have grease on it. AND if the pin spun - IT too needs to be replaced, and well as .... the whole assembly if need be ( that click noise!!!)


DO NOT let this deter you.... one small overlook happens sometimes, but you will find this machine to be a beast and can do almost anything.... even if one small bite at a time!!!!

Let us know how this turns out!

Thanks for the response. I already replaced the bolt and fitting and greased it, but the pin still binds and I still hear the noise so I am going to stop tinkering and have words with the dealer.

Looking it over a bit more, there are multiple fittings with all of the powder coating still on them. the very lower part of the main arm appears to not have grease either.

@ potreeboy - I did grease it after replacing the fitting. The tractor was NEW, although it did have 1 hr on it when delivered, so I did not think I had to grease it. I could also see grease on many spots so "assumed" it was good.

 

[cal1]

I'm experiencing this exact thing with my new BX23s! After cleaning the zerk (covered with grease from the dealer) I realized it was covered with paint. Lack of grease caused the pivot pin to bind and sheared the bolt. Removed the paint with a wire brush. Was really hard to get grease to go through but it seemed to work and stopped making noises. I only really noticed this when using the backhoe to do something hard like dig up stumps. Anyway I thought things were fixed, worked fine on light garden work. Yesterday when attacking the stump again the noise came back and I sheared another bolt. This time I noticed that grease only came out of the opposite side of the pin from the zerk fitting. Nothng on the side close to the zerk fitting. Going to regrease Monday and see if I can get grease out of both sides. If not I'll be dropping it off a the dealer.

Cal

 

[mikester]

Seems odd to me that the pin, zerk and retaining bolt/nut appear to be painted over. I’ve never seen that on a new machine.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Seems odd to me that the pin, zerk and retaining bolt/nut appear to be painted over. I’ve never seen that on a new machine.

Yeah, I noticed that. Seems like an error at the factory.

Regardless, I agree it needs to go to the dealer. It's never a good idea to repair something on a brand new item. You may have voided any warranty. At the very least, you have clouded the issue of who is responsible for what.

But at least you have the photos. I'd get that thing back to the dealer right away.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

heck I don't see ANY grease on the 2 clean zerks/pins in the first picture ! I ALWAYS leave some grease on them from the gun,even after putting a cloth in there, SOME grease remains. As others have said , grease should 'ooze' out of BOTH sides of the pin and between the 'moving parts'.
I'd carefully inspect ALL the zerks INCLUDING the one under the floorpan mat. Be sure to scrape off all paint on the zerk surface, wipe with clean cloth, then 5-10 squirts of grease and SEE that it 'comes out the void'. Use a rag to remove the old grease.
The painted zerk probably means the plastic cap used to cover it during the painting process fell out,sadly never caught during inspection. It SHOULD have been caught at the dealer, during 'prep' as that's WHEN grease is added. From the factory, I suspect there's NO grease in any of them.

 

[haveissues]

I found 3 or 4 zerks that were painted over on a new lx and never greased. Missed by the factory and missed by the dealer.

 

[ppodpearson]

Had the same problem with mine. I pulled the pin (quite a chore). Cleaned up the pin and zirk, greased it up, put it back in (pretty snug fit), replaced bolt and nut. I then greased in place while operating the joint. It takes grease very slowly.

 

[cal1]

Ok this is my second time addressing this. Greased everything the first time and seemed to get the noise to stop. Second grease attempt today was only able to get grease to come out the far side of the pivot pin. Can't get any grease to come out of the zerk side of the pin. Dealer said I needed to have the arm under load as I moved it around while applying grease. Did that, 150lb rock No change.

Without the bolt in place you can see the pivot pin bind and actually close the hole off. Seems like you'd need to push the pivot pin out enough to clear the first channel but I don't know how far you could go without risking pushing the pin out. I imagine it would be a major PIA to get it lined up if you pushed it all the way out.

Anybody really know how this zerk system works? I thought it was a simple channel groove with holes to let the grease push out where needed. Clearly something is plugged up somewhere.

 

[mikester]

Anybody really know how this zerk system works? I thought it was a simple channel groove with holes to let the grease push out where needed. Clearly something is plugged up somewhere.

One of the pins on my backhoe swing cylinders came without a channel groove and it stopped taking grease. The dealer fixed it under warranty and after a couple months in the shop they replaced the main BH carrier frame. I got it back and everything had the slop of a 20 year old backhoe and was told that was good enough. My impression is that Kubota quality is slipping.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Ok this is my second time addressing this. Greased everything the first time and seemed to get the noise to stop. Second grease attempt today was only able to get grease to come out the far side of the pivot pin. Can't get any grease to come out of the zerk side of the pin. Dealer said I needed to have the arm under load as I moved it around while applying grease. Did that, 150lb rock No change.

Without the bolt in place you can see the pivot pin bind and actually close the hole off. Seems like you'd need to push the pivot pin out enough to clear the first channel but I don't know how far you could go without risking pushing the pin out. I imagine it would be a major PIA to get it lined up if you pushed it all the way out.

Anybody really know how this zerk system works? I thought it was a simple channel groove with holes to let the grease push out where needed. Clearly something is plugged up somewhere.

You may want to peruse this thread https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/bx23s-backhoe-noise-hydraulic-or-mechanical.47008/

 

[cuzmarc]

Ok this is my second time addressing this. Greased everything the first time and seemed to get the noise to stop. Second grease attempt today was only able to get grease to come out the far side of the pivot pin. Can't get any grease to come out of the zerk side of the pin. Dealer said I needed to have the arm under load as I moved it around while applying grease. Did that, 150lb rock No change.

Without the bolt in place you can see the pivot pin bind and actually close the hole off. Seems like you'd need to push the pivot pin out enough to clear the first channel but I don't know how far you could go without risking pushing the pin out. I imagine it would be a major PIA to get it lined up if you pushed it all the way out.

Anybody really know how this zerk system works? I thought it was a simple channel groove with holes to let the grease push out where needed. Clearly something is plugged up somewhere.

I had the same issue with trying to get the grease into that pin after the bolt sheared. It took a small amount then I couldn't get anymore to go in.

The dealer called me back yesterday, they did seem concerned and did not question me (probably because i included pictures) and came out and picked the unit up. I included the parts I replaced, and luckily I still have a ton of pictures of everything prior to me trying to get it greased. I also explained the noise/stutter issue, so we will see if that is fixed as well.

I will update this thread and let you know what happens. I already miss it as I look at this pile of rocks that were delivered yesterday afternoon...

 

[cuzmarc]

heck I don't see ANY grease on the 2 clean zerks/pins in the first picture ! I ALWAYS leave some grease on them from the gun,even after putting a cloth in there, SOME grease remains. As others have said , grease should 'ooze' out of BOTH sides of the pin and between the 'moving parts'.
I'd carefully inspect ALL the zerks INCLUDING the one under the floorpan mat. Be sure to scrape off all paint on the zerk surface, wipe with clean cloth, then 5-10 squirts of grease and SEE that it 'comes out the void'. Use a rag to remove the old grease.
The painted zerk probably means the plastic cap used to cover it during the painting process fell out,sadly never caught during inspection. It SHOULD have been caught at the dealer, during 'prep' as that's WHEN grease is added. From the factory, I suspect there's NO grease in any of them.

After this happened, I looked over the entire machine and there are a NUMBER of those zerks still in..... I took pics of all of them to prove there was no grease coming out as well as to show the nipple was clearly clogged.

They have the unit back as I type this, so I will update everyone once I hear what they are going to do. The only thing I thought about after it left, was mark the parts somehow to "know" they were changed...

 

[85Hokie]

As I used my backhoe on my BX25D this past weekend I was thinking about the broken bolt problem - I grease mine way too much, I am like messy marvin, but I do not have a problem with the lack of lube

but as I was checking things over - I found one of my retaining bolts that lock the pin in place loose - as in very loose.... wow ... grabbed the wrench and then found 2 more that were loose. Funny how one thought can save time and money and forces us to look at things a little closer!

 

[cal1]

Sent pics to dealer and they're ordering a new pin. Will request old one to see what was wrong.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I am like messy marvin, but I do not have a problem

Better messy Marvin than starvin' Marvin in this situation. BTW, Kubota used to have some backhoe and loaders made in US. My L35 is metric except the backhoe. Maybe someone else knows.

 

[cal1]

Dealer ordered a new pivot pin. I'll ask for the old one to see if there's any thing obvious.

For what it's worth, here's my take. When I got it new a couple of months ago the only grease in it was from the factory. Dealer prep tech overlooked the painted zerk, when it flooded back out of the fitting he called it done. After using it for a couple of hrs it started making loud scrapping noises as the arm pivoted up and down. After scrapping the paint off I was able to get grease out of the far side but I think the channel closest to the zerk was probably blocked with metal fillings from the initial no grease period.

I'm willing to bet they could have simply removed my original pivot pin and cleaned it out but I'm not going to ask too many questions in case this becomes a long term problem.

Awaiting call from dealer when new pin comes in.

 

[lugbolt]

If they're replacing the pin in warranty, you may or may not get the part back. Kubota asks the dealer to tag and bag the part for 6 months. After 6 months they can do whatever they want with it, if you want it you can have it but after 6 months most people forget about it before then. That is IF kubota doesn't recall the part, if they do, you're out of luck. And it happens fairly often.

almost all manufacturers do it, some require the part to be kept for shorter amounts of time, others longer

On that note, the dealer has to keep up with ALL replaced parts (warranty only of course) and kubota does spot checks on that stuff. The pile of parts can get sizeable particularly if the person in charge doesn't keep it cleared out properly.

getting those pins covered in warranty is tough. Kubota wants to see evidence of grease. If it's not there, they try to claim it as "improper maintenance" and they kick it back a lot of times, so dealer has to be careful how it's written up & submitted.