Delco Remy Starter Restoration - - 1953 Minneapolis Moline, and many others.....

[RCW]

Last week I started this thread about "My" tractor.

Starter had locked it up, and Dad thought the engine was seized. Turned out it was the starter.

Made my Dad happy today.

“My” Minneapolis Moline resides at my Dad’s house. It will come to my house someday. Dad is 82. He and my grandfather bought the tractor used in 1956 for the farm. I grew up with it. He hates the tractor sometimes, but loves it for our farm heritage and memories of his own father. Wednesday...

www.orangetractortalks.com

There's guys that know a lot more than me about getting the starter in good running order.

Hopefully this will document some of the reassembly with some help from my friends at OTT.

The starter is common to many older tractors. I saw references to IH, AC.

 

[RCW]

This is the subject tractor. 1953 (or so) Minneapolis Moline ZAU.

Meet my Dad, been driving it since 1956 or '7.

I'm the new operator, at 1970 or so, backing the manure spreader down the barn floor (no barn cleaner) at 6 years old.

 

[RCW]

This is the starter.
Delco Remy part number 1107905.

These starters are common to many tractors of the 40’s - 50’s. Most were designed for 6 volt systems, but can deal with 12 volts without modifications.

Disassembled:

 

[RCW]

Cleaned up nose cone, commutator cover band and outside of stator (?) cover with brake cleaner.
I will get some contact cleaner tomorrow to do inside of stator, after getting the majority with towels.

The nose cone has two mounting holes. Only supposed to be one?!?! I didn’t mark the starter’s orientation to the bell housing because it can only go in one way...or so I thought.
We did have 2 MM’s, and this starter was hanging on one of our silo room walls.

 

[RCW]

Inside looks okay to me.
I had to blow a bunch of PB Blaster in the cone area to free the starter.
Maybe the oily residue is from that?

 

[RCW]

The guts of it, rotor and brush assembly.
Birddogger and Lil Foot pointed out I need to be careful cleaning the commutator at left side rotor shaft.
The brushes look good to me, but honestly not sure what I’m looking at.

Commutator:

 

[RCW]

This Bendix bolt was loose. Might have been the problem?

Otherwise, the starter worked well on 12 volts. The flywheel is a little boogered up, but not sure if it’s associated with this episode.

 

[RCW]

New Bendix just came in the from Steiner Tractor Parts. $44+$10 shipping was good in my book.

 

[RCW]

Tomorrow I will get some Contact Cleaner and clean inside of stator and rotor including commutator.

I'm concerned about the length of the drive gear on the new Bendix. The damage to the flywheel is on the starter side (of course). Thinking the shorter drive might be a disadvantage. Flywheel is ~ 1/2" thick, and damage is ~1/8-3/16" of that.

If anyone has any suggestions/recommendations/guidance, I'm all ears!!

 

[bx tractorjoe]

We had a 52? Moline crop row on my dads tobacco farm that his dad bought used in 1950 or so.. i remember dragging a late 40s international kb5 with a green diamond flat head 2 ton steak bed truck out of the weeds/ woods with it when i was 13 or so.. truck had been shot up and the bullets bounced off the cast iron straight 6 and I got it running just by rebuilding the fuel pump in 94 or so.. drove it around the farm with just the transmission ebrake..

 

[Russell King]

The commutator surface needs to be cleaned if possible. It appears that it is covered with carbon dust from the brush contact, but it may be more of arc flash burns.

Your manual should have a good explanation of how to clean it up. I recall using emory cloth (not sandpaper) to remove the surface contamination but other posts say to machine it so I won’t comment on how you “should” clean it.

 

[RCW]

The commutator surface needs to be cleaned if possible. It appears that it is covered with carbon dust from the brush contact, but it may be more of arc flash burns.

Your manual should have a good explanation of how to clean it up. I recall using emory cloth (not sandpaper) to remove the surface contamination but other posts say to machine it so I won’t comment on how you “should” clean it.

Russell - thanks. The manual does talk about No. 00 sandpaper. I’ve seen use only aluminum oxide paper, not emery cloth, etc., but turning is the best.
I’ll wash it down with contact cleaner tomorrow and see where we go.
Thanks much..

 

[bird dogger]

The guts of it, rotor and brush assembly.
Birddogger and Lil Foot pointed out I need to be careful cleaning the commutator at left side rotor shaft.
The brushes look good to me, but honestly not sure what I’m looking at.
View attachment 47243

Commutator:

View attachment 47244

RCW, the commutator looks almost unused.....as you can barely see the edges where the brushes contact the copper segments. A good cleaning may be all you need on this end. Even some toothpaste on an old toothbrush would do wonders on this lightly used commutator. Spray it clean with your contact cleaner afterwards.

Since your commutator looked brand new (but dirty) I surmised your brushes were not worn much either.
The pic of a rebuild kit including new brushes confirms that:

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A good cleaning of the brush holder and its parts to make sure everything is free to move and swivel should be all you need to do. I'm guessing there might be some kind of insulators to keep those brushes from case ground but its hard to tell from your pics. If there are, make sure they're ok after you disasssemble and clean before you put it back together again. You'll need to find a way to keep the brushes retracted against the spring pressure when you put that end bell housing back on the starter. then remove the holding devices once together. I might have tied the brushes back with some string through the housing openings.....then just cut the string and remove once it's together again. But it's been a while since I've done one of these.

As an example of a badly neglected motor here's what an unrepairable commutator looks like. There was not enough copper left on the segments to "true" them up again and the whole business fell apart when trying. But it was fun to try....

My guess is the operator never checked and replaced his brushes. Once they wore down to the wire connection within the carbon brushes itself, that led to the destruction of the commutator. This armature is then worthless unless you could find some NOS commutator parts from the manufacturer.
Pretty slim chance of that.

Your pic of your MM sure brought back memories of plowing with dad's MM. Ours had a wide front. I couldn't find any pics of it anywhere though. Sad.

David

 

[RCW]

David- thanks so much for the guidance!
I will try cleaning everything and post pictures of the progress.
The Bendix has me a little perplexed....does it just slide off the shaft after loosening the bolts?
I did get a new one, and there’s a big sticker on the box about spinning the Bendix before installing will void the warranty....
Can’t blame them certainly, and I don’t want to screw it up accidentally.

 

[RCW]

Seems pretty good....

 

[RCW]

Better picture of the brushes and end cap. Haven’t been sprayed with cleaner yet.
They appear perfect, and all linkages/springs great also.

 

[RCW]

I’m thinking forward to reassembly.....
1. Got to figure out Bendix replacement, if necessary. The label on the new Bendix has me a little spooked, since I honestly don’t know what I’m doing. I’ve cajones enough to admit that.

2. Got to replace the “lock screw” to remount the starter. It was rounded off already, and when I put my Grandfather’s 60 year old 5/8” S-K socket on it I made it worse. Socket was shot, and I threw it away. Irony is that those sockets were on that tractor for decades....It’s just a 5/8”-11 bolt with the end ground to a point.

3. Paint. Some Prairie Gold can run $25/rattle can. I would really like to put it back in painted....but that’s a little steep.

4. Solenoid. The starter appears in good shape. Should I replace solenoid now?

 

[bird dogger]

David- thanks so much for the guidance!
I will try cleaning everything and post pictures of the progress.
The Bendix has me a little perplexed....does it just slide off the shaft after loosening the bolts?
I did get a new one, and there’s a big sticker on the box about spinning the Bendix before installing will void the warranty....
Can’t blame them certainly, and I don’t want to screw it up accidentally.

RCW, I think that end cap is held on by a clip hidden underneath it.
Here's a pretty good video on "starters" and at about the 12 1/2 minute mark you'll see how to remove that end cap off your shaft. I'm betting yours is the same. Then after loosening the bolts the rest should/might slide off.

Not sure about the warning on spinning but would guess that it has to do with no resistance to banging that end cap when not mounted on the motor. But by hand....? Not a clue. Even in the video above the expert energizes the starter out of the motor.....but it may be just for demonstration.

david

 

[bird dogger]

Seems pretty good....

View attachment 47283

What a change from the first pics! that looks nice and clean. It's hard to tell from pics just how smooth things are. If the commutator bars look and feel pretty smooth "in real life" you should be good to go. Are the brush contact areas smooth and grit free also? (after cleaning) If they are.....good to go.

Some points to consider: As old as that starter is and with as little wear showing, putting it back in service after a thorough cleaning, etc. it will last more than our lifetimes! Especially when it only turns for a few seconds or more per tractor running time. After all, its not a continuous running motor.
I'd recommend checking it again in another 20 - 50 years of parade use and then re evaluate its condition!

david

 

[bird dogger]

Tomorrow I will get some Contact Cleaner and clean inside of stator and rotor including commutator.

I'm concerned about the length of the drive gear on the new Bendix. The damage to the flywheel is on the starter side (of course). Thinking the shorter drive might be a disadvantage. Flywheel is ~ 1/2" thick, and damage is ~1/8-3/16" of that.

If anyone has any suggestions/recommendations/guidance, I'm all ears!!

Regarding the length of the new drive gear: I would get some red or blue "Dykem" (steel layout fluid) and
mark/paint the drive gear teeth with it before installation on the tractor. After a couple of starts of the tractor, remove the starter and check for proper tooth alignment, mesh, etc. You should be able to tell by
the marks left on the Dykem. You could even use some water based paint instead of the dykem.

If you google "shimming a starter" or on Youtube there's bound to be videos on that process.
Bob's your Uncle!! Here's one:

david

Edit: With some fine measuring with a 6 inch ruler on both the stickout of the bendix gear from the starter mounting ears and the depth of the starter ring gear behind the mounting flange you should be able to get a close estimate of gear mesh. Might be wise to try this first to make sure there's at least some gear mesh between the two parts.