Steering Box Rebuild Problem

[Stumpy]

Hello I'm in the process of rebuilding the steering box on my L175. I've hit a snag though.

From what I can tell from both the online manual on Messicks and my shop manual the upper and lower bearings are identical. Messicks only lists one bearing on their parts page so I ordered two of the same bearing. However when I tried sliding the upper bearing onto the steering shaft it wouldn't fit. The cage is .025 of an inch too small to fit over the shaft. The lower seems to work just fine. Both races appear identical to the new bearings but there isn't enough of the cages left to make any sort of identification. Do I have the wrong bearings? Are there actually an upper and lower? I was going to go talk to the local dealer about this but they're a good hour drive from me and if I can solve this here that'd be nice. Anyone know?

 

[Kytim]

I don't know if it helps any but, I have seen and read the same info you quote. Plus when I did rebuild the box on my B7100 they were the same top and bottom. I dont recall such an interference on the upper bearing tho. my biggest probs with the rebuild was removing the rusted in place races. slide hammer style bushing remover from HF tools took care of it. If my poor memory is correct the new bearing cages were plastic instead of metal. Has been a whole year tho.

Good luck, tim

PS: isnt the rebuild outlined in the article section of this site on a 175? aforementioned memory issue tho.

 

[ipz2222]

When you get this back together, fill the houseing up with stp and grease.

 

[Stumpy]

Yes it is and it describes it dropping on onto the shaft as well. Both cages are the same size as well. I'm starting to think they changed the specs on the shaft at some point in production. Or perhaps I was given generic bearings that someone didn't measure properly. I'll see if the dealer and/or Messicks knows when they open tomorrow.

 

[Kytim]

Well it wouldnt hurt to double check with a dealer you respect for giving you correct answers. As far as lube I to would suggest a quality lubricant but, I would use the recommend gear oil. It lasted thirty years the first time and the box might not have failed with regular maintenance. even with water seepage. Don't forget to insure the weep hole is perfectly clear.

 

[Profnohair]

Not to hijack this post but, I do not see a way to drain the steering box. I see the fill but not a drain plug. Is this correct? and if so, how do you remove the old oil? I am on a L1500 but it should be identical to the L175. I did clear the weep hole a few weeks ago and it drained for almost a full day. The steering is fine but I want to change the oil.

Thanks,
Profnohair

 

[Stumpy]

Yes there is no drain plug. Problem is the lowest point of the box is actually down inside the bell housing right above the clutch. There's really no way you could drain it while it was on the tractor. What you might try is sticking a small pvc tube connected to a hand vacuum pump down the fill port and pull out everything in the box from the bottom (where the water will settle). You could also remove the plate from the right side of the box (right while sitting on the tractor) which would probably make that easier.

That'll get most of it out. You can drain and refill a few times for peace of mind or you might try filling it up with fresh oil and then heating the oil above 100C to remove any remaining water.

 

[Orange Tractors]

When I rebuilt mine a couple of years ago, the upper and lower bearings were the same. I did have to scrape the rust off the shaft with an old file and a wire brush in a drill; nothing else would get it off so the bearing and inner race could slide down the shaft.

I hope yopu found enough balls for the worm gear and ball nut, if not you will have too much slop in the wheel, don't ask how I know. Mine had 59 balls, packing them in grease in the sheet metal tubes helps when reinstaling them.

Robert

 

[Stumpy]

Haha! I did find the balls. I'm fortunate enough to live very close to one of McMaster Carr's main warehouses so shipping from there is usually less than the gas it would cost to drive down and back. A set of 50 5.5mm balls was $10.20 to my door I'm still glad I found the ball nut kit with the tubes though, the ice had wrecked the tubes on mine. Thanks for the tip about the grease, I was wondering how to get those thing in there without dropping the balls everywhere.

I took it down to bare metal. I actually took the whole shaft and stuck it in the mini lathe and turned it while I ran some scotch brite along it. It was too long to fit in my derusting vat. It measures .750(19mm) along most of it's length and then goes down to about .685(17.40mm) just before the top of the ball screw where the upper balls roll. The ID of the cage seems to run about .725(18.41mm). I'm starting to think I've got the wrong bearings. We'll see when I call up Messicks tomorrow or Tuesday. I may end up driving down to the local dealer with my calipers to measure their parts

Thanks everyone

 

[Stumpy]

Now that's helpful, thanks Vic! I'll shovel my way up to the barn and check my bearings. Here's the page from Messicks. I see that part number on there as replaced by the bearings I ordered. Looks like someone didn't do their homework when deciding what bearing replaced what. I'll know for sure when I checks my bearings.

Thanks again!

 

[Orange Tractors]

Haha! I did find the balls. I'm fortunate enough to live very close to one of McMaster Carr's main warehouses so shipping from there is usually less than the gas it would cost to drive down and back. A set of 50 5.5mm balls was $10.20 to my door I'm still glad I found the ball nut kit with the tubes though, the ice had wrecked the tubes on mine. Thanks for the tip about the grease, I was wondering how to get those thing in there without dropping the balls everywhere.

I took it down to bare metal. I actually took the whole shaft and stuck it in the mini lathe and turned it while I ran some scotch brite along it. It was too long to fit in my derusting vat. It measures .750(19mm) along most of it's length and then goes down to about .685(17.40mm) just before the top of the ball screw where the upper balls roll. The ID of the cage seems to run about .725(18.41mm). I'm starting to think I've got the wrong bearings. We'll see when I call up Messicks tomorrow or Tuesday. I may end up driving down to the local dealer with my calipers to measure their parts

Thanks everyone

I remember reforming the sheet metal tubes when I rebuilt my steering box, very delicate operation with a hammer, a swage block and a few different punches.

I don't remember now if my parts man said the tubes weren't available or if they only came with the ballnut now.

If you haven't gotten one yet, I recommend getting a new rubber bushing for the top of the steering shaft, it helps keep water out of the tube. Of course, since I did the steering box, I park my tractor in the barn...

Robert

 

[Stumpy]

Well bad news. Those are definitely the bearings I have therefore either I'm doing something wrong or the shaft was cut too large somehow. Both races are marked VBT17Z-2. I really have no idea what's going on here. I did get a new rubber bushing at the top, the original was pretty loose. I'll measure the new bushing tomorrow and compare it to the column. I think I'll drive down to the local dealer tomorrow with the bearing and column and see what they think. I managed to lose the woodruff key for both the throwout arm and the steering column so I may have to trek over to McMaster while I'm in the area.

In better news I'm about ready to reconnect the halves. The flywheel and clutch are back on and as soon as I get the woodruff keys I'll be good to go. However I left the camera in the barn so it'll be another day for a writeup.

I'm not sure where they get them, I threw away the packaging already, but compacttractorparts.com carries ball nut rebuild kits that come with the tubes and balls. I recall looking for the same thing from Messicks and only coming up with the whole ball nut assembly for something like $150. I like $40 much better.

 

[Stumpy]

Exactly how I'm trying to do it. I took it down to the dealer and he couldn't figure it out either. Though to be fair he said when they rebuild steering boxes they usually order complete shafts with ballnut and bearings. He suggested I try and press it on. I'm going to give it a shot. Worst case I destroy the bearing cage. We'll see.

 

[Stumpy]

Here's the end of the ball nut and shaft.

I ended up forcing the bearing onto the shaft. I drilled out a pipe cap to make a driver. It actually popped the balls out of cage. I tapped them back in with a rubber mallet and it seems to turn ok but I have doubts it'll hold for more then a few dozen hours of work.

Those numbers tell you anything? The guy at the dealer didn't check those numbers.

 

[Profnohair]

Yes there is no drain plug. Problem is the lowest point of the box is actually down inside the bell housing right above the clutch. There's really no way you could drain it while it was on the tractor. What you might try is sticking a small pvc tube connected to a hand vacuum pump down the fill port and pull out everything in the box from the bottom (where the water will settle). You could also remove the plate from the right side of the box (right while sitting on the tractor) which would probably make that easier.

That'll get most of it out. You can drain and refill a few times for peace of mind or you might try filling it up with fresh oil and then heating the oil above 100C to remove any remaining water.

I totally forgot that I asked about the drain plug. I appreciate the reply and will drain it with the tube trick.

Thanks again,

Profnohair

 

[Stumpy]

Heh, no problem.

If you decide to heat the box to boil out the water be careful not to cook the seals or gasket. Heat it from the bottom if you can.

 

[Stumpy]

Wow thank you Vic. I can't imagine what you might need but if you ever need anything please ask!

I cleaned the scale off the shaft, down to bare metal but there is still pitting on it. I wonder if the ID of the cage has changed slightly over different production runs. Who knows. At the very least I now know this problem isn't completely unique to my shaft. I'm not sure I trust my mini lathe to be perfectly straight over that long of a distance but I'll get a new bearing and give it a whirl.

Once again thank you Vic, and thank you everyone else!

 

[Orange Tractors]

I know I said in an earlier post that I used a file and a wire brush in a drill to clean my steering shaft, but I think I finally used a flap sanding disk in an angle grinder to clean everything off so the bearing would go all the way down.

Not as good as using a lathe, but it did work.

Robert

 

[rick sheltra]

First what a great forum!!Sure do appreciate all the videos on fixing my kubota b7100. I am now stuck on the steering box and need some advice.
Here is a list of the parts i bought new and am trying to install.
2 66811-41140 bearing thrust ball (uper and lower) same part#
1 66811-41200 comp nut ball bought the shaft with it too.
4 09500-16287 oil seals
Now as I am trying to assemble it I am finding it wont fit. The bearings are the same numbers mentioned in this thread previously.
So... there is a cavity in the bottom of the steering assemble case. I can put the new bearings in there and the fit perfectly in th hole however now I have the race part. It dosent fit in the hole and it dosent look as if it is correct to just set the race on top of it. The race dosent fit in the hole. I can assemble the whole thing leaving out the bottom race not bearings and it fits. I dont think I got the wrong part but am baffled as to why it wont fit.

I am going out to drain oil again and start over with the oil out of it. I will take some pics to show what the problem is. Thanks for any advice you could give.
Rick Sheltra

 

[Stumpy]

Both of the races are pressed in place. You can do it with an arbor press, hydraulic press or if you don't have one the hammer and drift method works well. Get something bigger than the race and a long chunk of metal ( I believe I used the back of a socket and a chunk of round stock) and while keeping it as square as you can whack in on in there. If it binds up beat on the high side til it squares ups and drive it home.

Then the cage is dropped into the race and the shaft inserted. The top bearing is done similarly. Part two of Vic Steering Box Article