BX23S/BT603 Bracket failure

[DHARVE3]

My tractor has just over 100 hours in it. The majority of those hours has been spent planting trees but I have dug up some small pine and cedar stumps.
i’m seeing a bracket slowly failing and it now appears to be about 1/4 inch out a place and the cylinder pin is in a bind. people want to accuse me of lateral movement of the backhoe against a solid object like the wall of a hole, which causes the bracket to bend. I do sometimes swing the back hole so that the bucket moves the loose dirt over away from the hole but that’s about the extent of it.
Is anyone else seeing this failure?

 

[Henro]

It seems like side thrust on the bucket should show up at the pivot pin between the boom and stick. NOT at the pin for the cylinder.

Does the pivot pin for the boom/stick seem normal, or is there an issue there as well?

Somehow the pictures you posted do not add up in my mind as being the result of pushing some loose dirt sideways with the bucket, although that is not recommended, at least not on my backhoe (but yes, I do it once in a while too).

If the pivot pin area is normal and the cylinder pin section is bent out my guess would be something other than side thrust on the bucket is the cause.

edit: Of course if the pivot pin area shows distortion, geometry says any spreading there would show up much more at the cylinder pin area.

 

[DHARVE3]

The main pivot pin is not as accessible as the cylinder pin and is more difficult to check. It looks fine but that doesn't mean its not damaged. I have received a photo from another Kubota owner who seems to have the same issue. (See Photo)
I guess its easy to say now, but compared to the rest of the construction, this bracket just looks flimsy. A round pin has been welded between the brackets as if added to strengthen the brackets. Maybe as an after thought.

It seems like side thrust on the bucket should show up at the pivot pin between the boom and stick. NOT at the pin for the cylinder.

Does the pivot pin for the boom/stick seem normal, or is there an issue there as well?

Somehow the pictures you posted do not add up in my mind as being the result of pushing some loose dirt sideways with the bucket, although that is not recommended, at least not on my backhoe (but yes, I do it once in a while too).

If the pivot pin area is normal and the cylinder pin section is bent out my guess would be something other than side thrust on the bucket is the cause.

edit: Of course if the pivot pin area shows distortion, geometry says any spreading there would show up much more at the cylinder pin area.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

MIne's got 325hrs in 2 years, haven't 'babied' it but I can't figure out HOW they got bent. In the 6th picture, there's some marks below the pivot pin area. Maybe hitting it there has caused the 'plate' to spring outward ?? I know I'll be looking at mine tomorrow. Curiously i wonder why the pin isn't fixed on both sides. Oh well..please keep us updated !!
Jay

 

[Henro]

Have you tried to remove the pin at the cylinder rod end?

it certainly looks like it is bent and will not come out. But photos can be deceiving.

Can an you hold a small straight edge against both of those ears (or whatever you call them) and see if one is straight and the other curved? Might give a little more insight.

Agree that that pin welded in looks like an attempt to keep those two ears (or whatever you call them) pulled together.

 

[DHARVE3]

MIne's got 325hrs in 2 years, haven't 'babied' it but I can't figure out HOW they got bent. In the 6th picture, there's some marks below the pivot pin area. Maybe hitting it there has caused the 'plate' to spring outward ?? I know I'll be looking at mine tomorrow. Curiously i wonder why the pin isn't fixed on both sides. Oh well..please keep us updated !!
Jay

I contacted my dealer who said he’s never heard of a problem like this before. I sent him all the photos that I have posted in this thread and also photos of the serial number plate and the hourmeter as requested. He says he sent all of this information to Kubota’s dealer support unit who will instruct him on how to proceed. He told me it may be 2 to 3 days and that was yesterday. Maybe I’ll hear something by the first of the week.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I looked at the single, big picture and 'mechanically' the only way I can see the plate getting bent is if the arm was all the way out and swung like a basebal bat,swing left to right, at full speed, the full 'arc' and hit a big tree trunk. 'hitting' the sidewalls of a trench can't do that damage, you need a LOT of energy,interia,speed, mass... whatever 'sciencey' terms describe the event.
When the bucket hits the tree,it'd want the left(now bent section) to keep going right, can't and the left side of the ram pivot end to 'whack' the inner side of the frame to push it out.
I just don't think that's possible let alone probable as the BX23S ain't a huge,powerful machine. Even if you were 'ground sweeping' ( arcing dirt back into a trench and dead stopping) , I can't see this bending happening.
curious and curiouser.....

had a look at mine. it has that welded pin at the top. I assume that's a factory revision to keep it parallel. My side frames measure 3.5" outside to outside,even after 2 years of use( and some abuse...). Have to I have to admit 1/4" plate for the frames does seem a tad 'thin'.
Jay

 

[DHARVE3]

I will let you know what happens. I still think it is a issue of hydraulic power exceeding the design strength.

I looked at the single, big picture and 'mechanically' the only way I can see the plate getting bent is if the arm was all the way out and swung like a basebal bat,swing left to right, at full speed, the full 'arc' and hit a big tree trunk. 'hitting' the sidewalls of a trench can't do that damage, you need a LOT of energy,interia,speed, mass... whatever 'sciencey' terms describe the event.
When the bucket hits the tree,it'd want the left(now bent section) to keep going right, can't and the left side of the ram pivot end to 'whack' the inner side of the frame to push it out.
I just don't think that's possible let alone probable as the BX23S ain't a huge,powerful machine. Even if you were 'ground sweeping' ( arcing dirt back into a trench and dead stopping) , I can't see this bending happening.
curious and curiouser.....

Jay

 

[cal1]

Just took delivery of my 23s about a month ago. After a couple backhoe jobs I noticed scraping noises when articulating the arm (same joint in your pic). The zerk fitting was plugged with paint. The dealership didn't notice it. It's been really hard to get the grease to go all the way to the other side but after a couple or tries I did get it greased. Wondered if you notice any strange sounds before things went south?

 

[Mark_BX25D]

I will let you know what happens. I still think it is a issue of hydraulic power exceeding the design strength.

If it were that, there would be hundreds many thousands of complaints. It would be A Known Issue. Big News.

It's not. It's weird. A one-off. That's not consistent with a design flaw.

I could see it being due to a particular part that passed QC but should not have, but it's not a design flaw. Not a chance.


Any chance somebody besides you played with it?

 

[DHARVE3]

The hydraulic pressure is adjustable. So if my tractor is not correctly adjusted then that does not make it a widespread problem. Also, there are others out there with the same problem as is evident on the Facebook Kubota BX 80 series page. I have photos uploaded by other Facebook users showing the exact same problem. No, I don’t think it’s widespread but I do think it’s out there on tractors other than mine.

If it were that, there would be hundreds many thousands of complaints. It would be A Known Issue. Big News.

It's not. It's weird. A one-off. That's not consistent with a design flaw.

I could see it being due to a particular part that passed QC but should not have, but it's not a design flaw. Not a chance.


Any chance somebody besides you played with it?

 

[DHARVE3]

no noises. I greased the whole machine before I started using it. Dealers don’t be a very good job getting a tractor ready for service.

Just took delivery of my 23s about a month ago. After a couple backhoe jobs I noticed scraping noises when articulating the arm (same joint in your pic). The zerk fitting was plugged with paint. The dealership didn't notice it. It's been really hard to get the grease to go all the way to the other side but after a couple or tries I did get it greased. Wondered if you notice any strange sounds before things went south?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm... if possible, check the serial numbers of the backhoes ( not the tractors...). There may have been a series of them with the problem.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

The hydraulic pressure is adjustable. So if my tractor is not correctly adjusted then that does not make it a widespread problem.

It also does not make it a design flaw.

Dealer prep problem?

 

[lugbolt]

it is indeed adjustable

and therein lies the issues I see with a lot of bx's

people go get a cheap "hydraulic pressure improver kit" and up the pressure beyond what the tractor is supposed to be then wonder why their stuff is broke. Kubota does not approve of the modification. What it is, is simply a way for people to ask more of their bx which is nothing more than a lawn mower with tractor-like features. Need more power? Get a bigger tractor.

but no, I have not seen that failure, yet. Interested in what kubota says.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

people go get a cheap "hydraulic pressure improver kit" and up the pressure beyond what the tractor is supposed to be then wonder why their stuff is broke.

I'm curious about this. I've never heard of a "hydraulic pressure improver kit", so I searched on that and got nothing. Then I took the quotes off and got hits for line pressure booster kits, but those are for automotive transmissions. Tried a few other searches, came up empty.

Have you seen such kits advertised?

I can certainly see an adjustment being abused. People do the same on diesel engines. Turn that pump up just a bit. Free horsepower!

Only sometimes, it turns out to be very expensive horsepower.

 

[Henro]

(snip) What it is, is simply a way for people to ask more of their bx which is nothing more than a lawn mower with tractor-like features...

Lugbolt, you have a lot of respect here.

But if you think a BX is just another lawn tractor, you must have had too much to drink when you posted that, or it has been a VERY LONG TIME since you owned a lawn mower!

LMAO

 

[Fordtech86]

I'm curious about this. I've never heard of a "hydraulic pressure improver kit", so I searched on that and got nothing. Then I took the quotes off and got hits for line pressure booster kits, but those are for automotive transmissions. Tried a few other searches, came up empty.

Have you seen such kits advertised?

I can certainly see an adjustment being abused. People do the same on diesel engines. Turn that pump up just a bit. Free horsepower!

Only sometimes, it turns out to be very expensive horsepower.

Search bx shim kit here and online. Been at least a few threads on here about boosting the hydraulic pressure on the bx.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I keep coming back here, thinking about the 'bend'..... It would be great if you could shine a LASER onto the side plates and try to see exactly where the bending has occoured. Do both sides and see if the other is straight or also , slightly, bent. Laser is easier to use but a very tight string will do it also.

As for the 'increase the pressure' comments, doing that is like 'overclocking a PC'. yes, you can 'tweak', BUT eventually you'll go past the overall design limit of the 'system'. The shim kits are meant to adjust the pressure to the 'nominal' value set by the factory. I don't know the 'spec' but say the nominal value is 1600-1700 psi. You measure yours at 1610. You can shim to get 1700. That's OK but shimming to 1750 is NOT. Any increase in psi will give better 'performance' but go about the design max and bad things will eventually happen.

 

[DHARVE3]

The tractor has no modifications white so ever. I change the engine oil and filter and the hydraulic filter at 50 hours and have greased it three times. It has plenty of power for me.

it is indeed adjustable

and therein lies the issues I see with a lot of bx's

people go get a cheap "hydraulic pressure improver kit" and up the pressure beyond what the tractor is supposed to be then wonder why their stuff is broke. Kubota does not approve of the modification. What it is, is simply a way for people to ask more of their bx which is nothing more than a lawn mower with tractor-like features. Need more power? Get a bigger tractor.

but no, I have not seen that failure, yet. Interested in what kubota says.