Grand L 4060 HSTC initial review

troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
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Yesterday afternoon I delivered my 2018 MX4800 HST and 2019 L2501 HST tractors to the dealer in trade for a new L4060HSTC. I was sad to see both my "old" tractors go, as they were excellent machines, but excited for the new tractor.

Here are my initial impressions:

Appearance and quality is excellent. Everything on the exterior, besides the grille, is metal. I noticed on my MX4800, the hood and fenders were steel, but the cowl behind the fuel tank and up to the instrument panel was actually made of plastic.



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Cab:
Quieter inside, but not a Rolls-Royce. It is quiet enough to not need hearing protection and to listen to the radio. I'm not sure if the cab is completely sealed, either. I already noticed the 4x4 level goes through the floor with just a thin bristle-style grommet with the ground visible below. The doors need to be shut pretty forcefully to fully close. This could be a testament of how tight the cab is, however. Visibility, in my opinion, is excellent. You can't lean over and see things quite as well as an open station, but I can actually see the inside of the front wheels and front axle better than with my open station due to position of loader hoses / valve. The rear quarter windows open and close very easily with latches, and open meaningfully well enough to provide good ventilation or talk to someone outside. The rear window also opens and closes similarly, and has a hydraulic strut assist. Both front doors lock and have a key access to the lock on either side. Both front doors can be easily shut when seated, even if they are fully open. They have hydraulic strut assist.

HVAC:
Very good. There are a total of 8 round vents in the roof which you can angle and rotate or close completely. Very similar to Ford pickup vents of a few years ago. There are four vents positioned a little lower than the other four, and are more forward. Two can easily be directed to the front windshield for defrost, and the other two can be angled towards the front doors. Or all can be directed at the windshield, or even back at the driver if desired. The other four are just a little ahead of the operator and off to the sides. The blower fan is pretty strong. It was only 60F here yesterday, but the A/C seemed very cold. Last night I was driving it around late and the temp had dropped to 40F...the heat is very hot once the engine warms up, which can be quite a while if you are only idling.

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Radio:
This is going to vary based upon what your dealer (or you) install, but my dealer installed a fairly typical Jensen Heavy Duty JHD36A radio. It's actually a pretty nice unit that retails for $250 on Crutchfield, has AM/FM, single CD, front-panel USB port, streaming Bluetooth, and NOAA Weatherband with alert. Audio quality is fair through the tractors two roof mounted Clarion speakers. I suspect upgraded speakers with some Dynomat behind them would improve sound quality, but it still isn't bad the way it is. You can definitely hear the radio when it's turned up a bit even at wide open throttle. I got it to connect to my iPhone pretty easily.

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Wipers:
These tractors come standard with a front wiper/washer, but I got the optional rear wiper/washer as well. I was pleasantly surprised to learn the rear wiper also has a washer. The switches are located in the roof next to the HVAC. The front wiper is large and covers most of the glass area. The rear wiper is a bit smaller. They work fine, but you only have a choice of continuous wiping or OFF. When you do activate the washer, the wiper is automatically triggered, but you have to manually shut the wiper off. Oddly, you can also activate *just* the washer without wiping, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to do this.

Seat:
The Grand L series comes standard with a high-back vinyl seat, with fold-down armrests . The armrests do not adjust for height...they are either up or down. The seat can be adjusted fore and aft, and can swivel a little bit left and right. The backrest recline angle can also be adjusted. The seat is mounted on a nice spring with a weight adjustment for a stiffer or lighter ride based upon your weight. However, this is the biggest disappointment for me. I'm 6'6" and 270lbs. Even adjusted to max weight / stiffness, the seat bottoms out. My 230lb co-worker tried it as well, and it also bottomed out. I had a 170 lb employee try it, and it worked great...he thought it was the perfect spring rate...and this was still adjusted to max weight. I guess the Japanese are lightweight. There is an optional air-ride cloth seat that supports more weight, but it is expensive. I might try to see if there is any solution for the standard seat for heavier operators. Otherwise, the seat looks very nice and is reasonably comfortable.

Exterior Lights:
The Grand L comes with high and low beam headlights, front "side lights," and front work lights. I also optioned for the rear work lights, which are a clone of the front work lights. The results are a mixed bag. The headlights themselves are the best I've had in a tractor. They are 55w low beam and 60w high beam. This is the same as an automobile, and the beam pattern is pretty good. The switch is on the column control stalk. My MX4800 for comparison had 35w low and 35w high beams. The L2501 only had 25w lows and highs. However, as many of you guys know, the loader blocks the headlights unless it is very low or fairly high. For working in a field at night, neither of those carry options are my preference. Furthermore, they only light up in front of you, which is nice but you need more for tractor work. Next up are the "front sidelights." These are only 21w bulbs, which is the same rating as the brake lights in an automobile. The switch is a push-button on the dash area, right side. They are fairly useless. They do direct out to the side a bit, but only push a small amount of light. The non-cab L60 series tractors without work lights might benefit more because that's all they have. Next are the front work lights located at the top of the cab. These are 35w bulbs in a flood-style reflector lens. They light up the area immediately to either side of the hood but are relatively dim and do not extend out very much. They do glare off the top of the hood, but not badly. They are controlled by a rocker switch on the main pillar of the cab, right side. The rear work lights are located at roof level on the back of the cab facing backwards. As clones of the front lights, with a similar switch right next to the front switch, these seems to work surprisingly better. It could be because there are no other bright lights on the back of the tractor, or because there are no obstacles to block the light such as a hood. I think these lights are perfectly adequate for backing up even while operating a mower or other rear implement. Other lights include the tail lights (standard Kubota fare 21W (same as automobile) integrated in the rear fenders. They work fine. There are amber lights also integrated into the fender next to the tail lights same as most other Kubotas, they are 21W and work great as flashers or turn signals. Mounted high on the rear cab roof are two flasher / signal repeaters, also 21W amber lights. On the front, mounted mid-level at the outside of the cab corners are amber 21W flasher / signal repeaters, but these also have a "parking light" function just like a car. They are lit when your headlights are on - cool feature.

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Interior lighting:
There is one courtesy lamp in the roof, biased to the right side. Although it has an on-auto-off switch position, there are no door switches in the 60 series so you choice is on or off. It is a 5W bulb, and I actually find it adequate to light the interior. Others find it weak, but I am content.

Instrument / Switch Backlighting
The instrument cluster is fully backlit, including the analog gauges and the message center. The backlighting is LED and is on "full bright" all the time, and dims slightly when you turn on the headlamps. The following switches and controls are illuminated: Hazard switch push button (red), Climate Control panel (blue/green/red temp dial, A/C on (backlit and indicator on), recirculating active (backlit and indicator on), blower fan speed (green backlight). The radio is fully backlit but only when turned on. It does have a clock which stays active when the radio is off. The front and rear wiper controls are backlit in green. The front-sidelights green pushbutton is illuminated but only when your turn on the switch. Finally, the front and rear work lights switches are backlit in green, and have an amber "on" indicator when active. The cruise control switch is NOT illuminated, nor are the DPF regeneration buttons, although they light up in orange when you push them. I'm pretty happy with the interior lighting overall.

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Steering wheel / column:
The tilt function works great and has a nice range of adjustment. The steering wheel has a good feel too it, not to thin or thick. There is a horn...and it is fairly loud, and operated normally by pressing the center of the steering wheel. The turn signals are activated just like in a car, by a control stalk. This stalk also has a rotating switch on the end of it which activates headlamps and high beams. Very car like. The H-DS control is super convenient on the left side of the column and works intuitively.

Storage:
Not that great. The cup holder is a decent size, finally, and even has a mug handle cutout. However, otherwise there is only a shallow tray towards the rear, and a deeper but thin bin towards the front. There is a 12V outlet, not terribly convenient, but out of the way. Finally, there is a "glove box" which locks in the back of the front seat, but you'd have to flip the seat to access it.

Interior Fit and Finish:
Pretty good by my book, and I think this is where Kubota really beats the others except maybe Deere. The left side fender "plastic" trim looks solid but is fully and deeply padded. The headliner is cloth, nice, and automotive quality. The plastic pillar trim and side trim are all good fitting, a nice color, and consistent. The floor mat is rubber and much cushier than other rubber floor mats in various tractors I've had.

Instrument Cluster:
Basically excellent. My biggest complaint is that there is no indicator letting the operator know if the 4x4 system is engaged. Otherwise, the analog gauges are very clean and nicely lit. The fuel gauge always reads, even with the key off. If you leave the key on while refueling, there is a buzzer that will sound when the tank is full, so you don't overfill and spill fuel. There are warning indicators for high beams, turn signals, flashers, parking brake, cruise control active, PTO active, stall guard active, auto H-DS active, which H-DS mode you are in, auto-throttle advance active, DPF regen active, RPM up warning, Check Engine, Engine Warning, Master Caution, low oil pressure, and battery not charging. The message center (Intelli-Panel) has a clock, a digital speedometer, a selected range indicator, and various displays for fuel consumption (average by hour and total gallons used), total hours and trip hours, DPF percentage full, PTO speed, cruise control speed, all the HST transmission settings, and a complete and automatically-tripping maintenance schedule log. Other warnings on screen include a fasten seatbelt warning, glow plug active, low fuel warning, engine overheat, and more.

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HST-Plus Transmission:
This is perhaps the most impressive part of the Grand L 60 series. Basically, you get a three-range HST that is fully electronically controlled. The electronic overlay is impressive. Stall guard is of dubious value, but if you get bogged down and not notice it in your climate-controlled cab with the radio blaring, I guess it will help you not stall the tractor. My favorite feature is the auto throttle. The HST pedal works just like a car...press the HST pedal like a gas pedal, and the tractor accelerates accordingly. You can adjust the HST pedal sensitivity and I find this makes a big difference. I'm +2 on the scale. The next best feature for me is the H-DS (hydro dual speed) function. It gives you a range within a range, so you really have 6 ranges. You can flick the lever on the column up or down to give you more torque and less speed, or less torque and more speed. It works extremely well, is nearly imperceptible, and works great in conjunction with auto throttle. There is also "auto H-DS" which will shift up and down for you based upon load, but I found this to be jerky and not needed given how easily you can shift yourself. Finally, the range-change lever down on the left side is a nicer quality than what you get in most HST tractors, and the indicator on the dash of which range you are in is a nice touch. There is no HST whine either.

4x4:
The lever is in the usual spot, but the engaged / disengaged positions are opposite what most Kubota models are. The lever actually feels a little sloppy and did not engage or disengage easily. There is a longer travel range. My biggest complaint is the lack of an indicator on the dash.

Turning circle:
Very impressive. Seems to turn tighter than my other tractors I've had. Power steering feel is good.

Engine:
Very responsive. More responsive than my MX4800, which is odd, because I think they are the same engine with a different rating. Combined with the HST+ trans, the tractor is very smooth and responsive. The engine is quiet and smooth, and powerful sounding when revved. One annoyance is that you must remove a side panel, held by bolts, to access the oil fill cap. The air filter is moved rearward over the top of the engine, just ahead of the DPF. This is a little less convenient to access compared to the typical "over the battery" location. I'm also concerned that the new location is a lot hotter right next to the DPF and above the engine. Warmer air means less performance. This tractor has four heat exchangers out front - the engine radiator at the rear, then the A/C condenser ahead of that, and two smaller coolers - the HST / hydraulic cooler, and the fuel cooler. There are two screens you can remove and clean - one ahead of the A/C condenser and one ahead of the radiator. To remove and clean the one ahead of the radiator, the loader arms must be raised. That's no big deal because I usually do that anyway during a stop and clean in the field. I'm very pleased there are two screens. The battery is still a 582CCA unit, same as an open station tractor in this class; however the alternator is a little more robust at 60A (compared to 45A for the open station MX). Of course, the cab has more electrical draw between the HVAC, front and rear work lights, brighter headlights, side lights, radio, 12V outlet, etc. If you want the rear and side defrosters, and alternator upgrade to the "high output" 95W alternator is required. I did not opt for this. The A/C compressor is pretty small and mounted up high on the engine.

Loader:
The loader is considerably more responsive than the MX loader, but not jerky. It lifts to a good height and has reasonable weight lift ability. I never had a problem with the open-station loader-stanchion mount, but this stick is probably even nicer. The throttle up button is a very nice touch. Ground speed does not change when you throttle up, which is great. You can set how many RPMs you want the button to increase engine speed to; I set mine down to around 1900RPM. The rest of the loader itself is like all other Kubota loaders...well made, easily removable, and with good quality SSQA couplers.

Overall, I love this tractor. I'll use it for plowing this winter and mowing in the summer. I'll continue to give reports as I put more hours on it, same as I did with my L2501. It's amazing how much effort and "luxury" there is here. Then again, the price tag with KTAC came to $45,000. It should be nice.
 
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jk96

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L6060
Oct 17, 2019
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St. Joseph
The doors need to be shut pretty forcefully to fully close. This could be a testament of how tight the cab is, however.
Might need to check the doors or latches to see if they can be adjusted. Just took delivery of a 2019 L6060 a few weeks back. Doors on mine can be shut with one finger. So easy in fact that I pulled on them a few times at first because I couldn't believe they latched so easily. My last Case tractor required you to almost slam them shut to latch.
 

troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
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Might need to check the doors or latches to see if they can be adjusted. Just took delivery of a 2019 L6060 a few weeks back. Doors on mine can be shut with one finger. So easy in fact that I pulled on them a few times at first because I couldn't believe they latched so easily. My last Case tractor required you to almost slam them shut to latch.
Could be, thanks. They do shut easily to the point of latching, but they aren't fully shut on mine without a slam. I'll check it out.
 

beex

Member
May 21, 2019
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Well done review!

questions

How does the stall guard work? Backs off on the HST? Drops H-DS speed to low, bumps throttle up?

How much speed change do you get with H-DS? Would you use it with the loader in mid range? Low speed to drive into load, flip to high speed to transport?

Auto throttled is probably the feature I would like the most. Does it seem to increase rpm and hst roughly the same amount, so at full peddle your full HST speed plus full throttle? When using this, do you set the manual throttle to idle?

How stable is the tractor on hills? That might be hard to answer, all tractors are tippy on hills, say how is it compared to the L2501?




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troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
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Well done review!

questions

How does the stall guard work? Backs off on the HST? Drops H-DS speed to low, bumps throttle up?

How much speed change do you get with H-DS? Would you use it with the loader in mid range? Low speed to drive into load, flip to high speed to transport?

Auto throttled is probably the feature I would like the most. Does it seem to increase rpm and hst roughly the same amount, so at full peddle your full HST speed plus full throttle? When using this, do you set the manual throttle to idle?

How stable is the tractor on hills? That might be hard to answer, all tractors are tippy on hills, say how is it compared to the L2501?




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Thanks beex. First off, one thing to remember with HST+ is that it is 100% electronically controlled. The foot hydro pedal doesn't connect to anything mechanically like an L2501 or even via hydraulic servo like an MX series machine.

So stall guard has a sensor that compares the commanded engine RPM level (via the hand throttle or through auto throttle advance) to the transmission speed or actual engine RPMs. If they don't match, it determines there is a load bogging the tractor down. It can attempt to increase RPM, but you may be already wide open. The other thing it can do is slow you down, despite having the HST pedal to the floor. And yes, it does work with H-DS to drop you into the low gear of the range, even if Auto H-DS is turned off.

In H-DS High, you get 40% more speed compared to H-DS Low. In H-DS low, you get 60% more torque compared to H-DS High. The shift is very quick and smooth. Last night I used my 3-point gooseneck attachment to move my Big Tex 30-foot gooseneck around. In this case, Auto H-DS works great. Very smooth transmission. The tractor was able to move the empty trailer (6,000 lbs) around in even High-High range without much effort. H-DS works by varying the flow of oil from the pump to drive motor - low flow / high pressure vs high flow / low pressure. One gives you torque, one gives you speed. I believe the 3 ranges are still just a mechanical gear reduction post hydro motor. The H-DS is activated by an ECU command and solenoid operation. I'm very impressed. The speed difference is noticeable. However, keep in mind the top speed of the tractor is somewhere around 16mph, so it isn't much different than pure mechanical HST machines. It's just that you can stay within a range and have more speed or more torque very quickly and easily, and on the move. And yes, I would use the loader in medium range, flipping between low and high.

Auto throttle is just like a car. That's the easiest way to explain it. Push the HST pedal like a gas pedal and the response would be taking off just like in a car, albeit only to the top speed of the range selected. There is no delay. The RPM / HST pedal amount requested are perfectly synchronized. Pedal to the floor will indeed be wide open throttle. You do leave the hand throttle at idle, but it doesn't matter if you leave it at partial throttle. The system still works.

I cannot tell you about stability yet. I have not had it on any side hills. I do plan to put 3" Bro-Tek spacers on it, probably in the spring.
 

beex

Member
May 21, 2019
312
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on my bx
Thanks beex. First off, one thing to remember with HST+ is that it is 100% electronically controlled. The foot hydro pedal doesn't connect to anything mechanically like an L2501 or even via hydraulic servo like an MX series machine.



So stall guard has a sensor that compares the commanded engine RPM level (via the hand throttle or through auto throttle advance) to the transmission speed or actual engine RPMs. If they don't match, it determines there is a load bogging the tractor down. It can attempt to increase RPM, but you may be already wide open. The other thing it can do is slow you down, despite having the HST pedal to the floor. And yes, it does work with H-DS to drop you into the low gear of the range, even if Auto H-DS is turned off.



In H-DS High, you get 40% more speed compared to H-DS Low. In H-DS low, you get 60% more torque compared to H-DS High. The shift is very quick and smooth. Last night I used my 3-point gooseneck attachment to move my Big Tex 30-foot gooseneck around. In this case, Auto H-DS works great. Very smooth transmission. The tractor was able to move the empty trailer (6,000 lbs) around in even High-High range without much effort. H-DS works by varying the flow of oil from the pump to drive motor - low flow / high pressure vs high flow / low pressure. One gives you torque, one gives you speed. I believe the 3 ranges are still just a mechanical gear reduction post hydro motor. The H-DS is activated by an ECU command and solenoid operation. I'm very impressed. The speed difference is noticeable. However, keep in mind the top speed of the tractor is somewhere around 16mph, so it isn't much different than pure mechanical HST machines. It's just that you can stay within a range and have more speed or more torque very quickly and easily, and on the move. And yes, I would use the loader in medium range, flipping between low and high.



Auto throttle is just like a car. That's the easiest way to explain it. Push the HST pedal like a gas pedal and the response would be taking off just like in a car, albeit only to the top speed of the range selected. There is no delay. The RPM / HST pedal amount requested are perfectly synchronized. Pedal to the floor will indeed be wide open throttle. You do leave the hand throttle at idle, but it doesn't matter if you leave it at partial throttle. The system still works.



I cannot tell you about stability yet. I have not had it on any side hills. I do plan to put 3" Bro-Tek spacers on it, probably in the spring.


Thanks for the details. I think this unit is my favorite machine in the kubota line up. I have no use for anything that big now but, when the wife and I decide to quit our careers and move out of the rat race, we’re thinking of getting place on a big lot, so I’m thinking ahead. On 3 acres now, so the BX does great.

hope you don’t mind I have a couple other questions.

How strong is the HST? For example, some 3 range tractors I’ve been on are pretty weak in high, doesn’t take much of a hill before the relief valve opens and it starts to slow down.

The BX is 2 range, the ranges low and high are really low and mid. So in it’s high (mid) it can still, go up pretty steep.

Next question takes some explanation, you might not have been able to tell yet. But was wondering if about the HST design it self, does it vary the or both pump volume and motor volume or just pump volume.

In all smaller HST tractors, the HST lever is connected to the variable swash plate on the pump only, the motor swash plate is fixed. This reduces complexity and cost. This works on smaller tractors. The affect of this is that the motor has a fixed peak torque determined by the max hydraulic pressure allowed by the relief valve.

But on bigger tractors both the motor and the pump swash plates are variable. The affect of this is when the motor swash plate is set to higher volume required per rpm, you get more motor torque at the peak hydraulic pressure, conversely more speed at lower volume settings. This type of HST design makes a single gear range of the HST operate in a much wider range of applications. For mid range at slow speed you get a lot of torque to push dirt, but at high speed you get enough speed you don’t have to shift ranges. So was wondering if the Grand L does this?

Actually on second thought this might be exactly how the H-DS works. You said that is very smooth, which means it’s probably not a gear change, it’s likely changing the motor swash plate position which would be smooth and have the desired affect of providing a high torque low speed vs low torque high speed ranges for the pump swash plate to work with. If that’s what’s going on, I’m impressed.


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troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
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Ask all you want - I'm happy to answer as much as I can.

I'm trying to learn more about this transmission myself. As for HST strength, I'd say pretty strong. I've yet to try hills, but like I said...I towed my 30-foot gooseneck trailer about a half mile with it. Even using High Range, High H-DS mode was fine. Keep in mind when I hook this same empty trailer to my 2018 RAM 3500 dually with the Cummins engine and manual transmission, I *must* start in 1st gear or the truck will stall. Now obviously you aren't going to be able to run full speed up a hill...if you could, there'd really be no reason for lower ranges. Also consider the tractors in the Grand L 60 range with more horsepower than mine would probably do better. My 2018 MX4800, with more horsepower than this 4060 and a little less weight, couldn't go up a medium-grade hill at wide open throttle in high range with the HST pedal all the way down. Maybe half down, or it would stall. So in other words, this transmission doesn't beat the laws of physics regarding the amount of horsepower to move x amount of weight up a hill at a given speed.


Regarding how H-DS works, I copied this snippet from the shop manual someone posted on another thread:
"With loads applied on the motor shaft, the pressure between A and C is increased, and the pump receives more resistance, thereby decreasing the engine speed. Since the engine stall prevention function starts to operate first, the ECU controls the proportional control valve according to signals from the engine speed sensor and accelerator opening sensor so that engine torque and loads on the HST should keep well-balanced relation. Loads applied on the engine side are controlled by returning the swashplate on the pump side toward the neutral side. When the loads on the engine side cannot be controlled by returning the swashplate on the pump side, and the engine speed is decreased more, the Hi-Lo solenoid valve is closed by signals from the ECU to the Lo position. Then the oil between A and C (Forward and high pressure side) passes through the two speed change spool and is guided by the piston on the Lo side, and the position of the swashplate on the motor is changed to the Lo side (the inclination angle becomes larger)."

So based upon this explanation it does appear both the pump and motor can be varied.
 
Last edited:

beex

Member
May 21, 2019
312
5
18
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Agree, I’d would expect it to slow down in high range going up hill too. You kind get a sense of transmission strength based on how it slows down, if it’s bogging the engine RPMs down, then the tranny is plenty strong. I’m sure the relief valve setting also protects the transmission from over torquing anything. Something a gear tranny does’t do.

Nice! It does say it’s changing the motor swash plate. So you have tranny that moves the pump swash plate and the motor swash plate. That’s awesome, you’ll probably find with that you don’t need to make gear range changes much when working, just use the H-DS. Which means it probably doesn’t have on the fly range changes, doesn’t need it. The 40% speed change you said you get is quit a bit.

I’m going to have to find a reason to get one of these.


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beex

Member
May 21, 2019
312
5
18
on my bx
Plus you said it has a trotted up button on the loader valve stick? hmm, that’s interesting.

Seems like the way you would do loader work is to put it in auto throttle mode, use the H-DS in low to scoop your stuff, use the throttle up button to get extra power to push into pile or move the loader faster. At that point your not pushing much on the hst peddle the auto throttle would be low at that point, so you boost the RPMs if you need it. Let the throttle up button go, flip to high speed, drive to where you need to dump using auto throttle. Wash and repeat. That’s a lot of engine and transmission management at your fingertips without stopping. Should be quite productive.


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troverman

Well-known member

Equipment
MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
275
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NH
It's very nice in practice. Keep in mind that the throttle-up button the loader stick raises engine RPM for a faster loader cycle but your ground speed automatically does not change so long as your foot remains pressing it at the same level.

I think with H-DS active, you could use Medium range most of the time. It's a tad slow even in Medium-High, but plenty of power to push into a pile.
 

beex

Member
May 21, 2019
312
5
18
on my bx
Side topic, I noticed you said you have a manual on your dually ram. That’s almost or is unheard of anymore. I’m curious as to why you chose manual and are there any down sides to that? I would be leaning towards a manual also I think. When towing heavy a manual doesn’t heat up.


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troverman

Well-known member

Equipment
MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
275
83
NH
I am a Ford guy and prefer the Super Duty in almost every way. I've had 6 Super Duty trucks including a 2017 F-350 dually. However, I enjoy driving a manual trans. I traded the Ford last November for the RAM with a manual because I wanted to try it. Unfortunately, RAM was the only manufacturer offering a stick in a full size pickup truck. 2018 was the last year...the 2019+ models, which is a new body style, no longer offer a manual.

The downsides to the manual are a few:

-RAM specifically neuters the Cummins when mated to this trans to save it and more likely, the clutch. In this case the manual is the Mercedes-Benz G56 used on other heavy Mercedes trucks in Europe. You still pay the $9300 option for the diesel, but receive 350HP and 660lb-ft. That's a far cry from the 440/925 I had with the 2017 Ford. The RAM feels slower, but still gets the job done.

-Towing can be hard on the clutch. I've only got about 16k miles on the truck so far, and the clutch does feel different than when it was new.

-Max towing capacity is somewhere around 17,000lbs. I've had 18k behind the truck before, and had to back uphill into a driveway. The clutch did slip a bit. An automatic RAM, everything else the same except transmission, can tow 30k+ lbs.

-RAM uses a lot of throttle and torque management to protect the trans and clutch. With a normal stick shift car, you can easily blip the throttle to rev-match to a gear you're downshifting to. Not so in the RAM, depending upon which gear you're in. Some gears / speeds will let you blip as expected. At other times, the throttle is basically dead. In these cases, you have to hold the pedal down longer to get the revs up, which is unnatural.

-The turbo loses boost at each upshift, unlike an automatic, which means you need to wind the engine up when towing a heavy load, particularly uphill. Fuel cutoff is at 3,000RPM.

But there are positives, too. Despite being a truck transmission, the shift action is fairly positive. Not sloppy. The throws are longer than a car, for sure, but not school bus long. Being a standard, you hear the turbo spool and exhale with each up-shift, which sounds cool. And the exhaust brake absolutely outperforms the automatic trucks, despite being the same. You feel connected with the truck, and you get to the point where you can smoothly shift through all the gears. 1st gear is very short and I pretty much only use it while towing, or coming up out of a steep place. I do like the truck.
 

troverman

Well-known member

Equipment
MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
275
83
NH
Wanted to give an update - the tractor is finally being used fully for what I bought it for...flail mowing. It has a little over 60 hours now, and will rapidly accumulate in the next few weeks to well over 100.

Had to have the HST recall done - the dealer had my tractor for over a month. Ironically they loaned me "back" my MX4800 I traded in last fall. I also had them change the HST and hydraulic system filters when they refilled the case after draining it for the recall.

How does it mow? Well, "stock" it is too tippy for my slopes. I came extremely close to rolling the tractor. I stopped and was able to get out, but it was so light if I pushed on the roof area I'm certain I could have sent it down the hill. Fortunately I still had the loaner MX and was able to attach a chain and get the front end headed up hill. Since then, I moved the L4060's multi-position rims out to their max position and also installed 2" Bro-Tek aluminum spacers. I'm yet to get it back to the slopes (raining here finally) but I'm confident it will make a lot of difference. See the stock width and new width with rims moved and spacers on I attached.

I'm mowing with a Woodmax FM-78 flail mower, triple slicer knives instead of hammers, and a trash door than can be opened up in the back. I have the door opened to position 1, which is a larger opening than closed, but still deflects debris downwards. Being honest, the 4060 could use a bit more power. I operate on full throttle, Low range, turtle mode on H-DS. On flat / thinner grass sections I can bump up to rabbit mode. However, the mower goes through thick 4' tall grass perfectly well so long as you don't mind going slow. Stall Guard, which initially seemed useless, actually is awesome. It's a little abrupt, but it won't let you really ever bog the tractor down. The factory cruise control is amazing...just like a car, even with bump up/down. Combined with Stall Guard, you can just set a speed and do nothing other than steer.

The cab is really nice - the A/C works very well even in 90-degree weather and tough humidity. You see huge amounts of dust and chaff blowing around, but you aren't inhaling it. You see the bugs and bees landing on the windshield instead of you. You aren't sweaty and covered with dirt at the end of the day. The stereo works pretty well and its nice not having to wear ear protection for hours. Your drink in the cupholder does not become super-heated like it does on an open station machine.

Downsides? Yes, a couple. The swirling dust and dirt and chaff sticks to all the glass. Yes, you have a front and rear wiper / washer but you end up using a lot of windshield washer fluid and can only see clearly out of those small wiped areas. You can't see well out the side doors. Also, the seat is not comfortable...primarily because the springs aren't strong enough to support 225lbs or more and you settle to the bottom. I still haven't found a way to fix this problem yet.

I like this machine a lot. An L6060 with the air seat would probably be perfection. Just did the 50 hour engine oil and filter change....straighforward as on all Kubotas except this one has a very cluttered oil fill cap area.
 

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jajiu

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3560 HSTC, Grader, Backhoe, Snow Plow, Pallet Forks
Jun 5, 2016
456
112
43
74
Rowley, Massachusetts
Troverman, I have had my L3560HSTC for 6 years now and agree with most all of your report, nice job. Like you, I found the tipping of the tractor very discomforting as it is so top heavy. I installed 3" BORA wheel spacers on it and it helps a lot, but still very uncomfortably tippy. Then again, I have some VERY steep hills on my property. Enjoy your tractor.
 
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troverman

Well-known member

Equipment
MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
275
83
NH
Troverman, I have had my L3560HSTC for 6 years now and agree with most all of your report, nice job. Like you, I found the tipping of the tractor very discomforting as it is so top heavy. I installed 3" BORA wheel spacers on it and it helps a lot, but still very uncomfortably tippy. Then again, I have some VERY steep hills on my property. Enjoy your tractor.
Did you move the rims out to their widest setting? That gained me probably close to 3 inches. That and the fact that because of the slopes I work on, I've probably developed a high tolerance to side angles.

Edit - looks like you have turfs which probably don't have adjustable rims.
 

jajiu

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3560 HSTC, Grader, Backhoe, Snow Plow, Pallet Forks
Jun 5, 2016
456
112
43
74
Rowley, Massachusetts
Did you move the rims out to their widest setting? That gained me probably close to 3 inches. That and the fact that because of the slopes I work on, I've probably developed a high tolerance to side angles.

Edit - looks like you have turfs which probably don't have adjustable rims.
Right, no adjustment on rims. The big thing was when I put the spacers on, the tractor wouldn't fit on my trailer any more. Sold the old trailer and had to purchase a new deckover trailer. Always something.
 

troverman

Well-known member

Equipment
MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
275
83
NH
Right, no adjustment on rims. The big thing was when I put the spacers on, the tractor wouldn't fit on my trailer any more. Sold the old trailer and had to purchase a new deckover trailer. Always something.
Deckovers are nice. I used to run an 18 foot equipment hauler which was a nice trailer rated at 16k GVWR, but I only had about 85" of deck width since the deck sat between the fenders. Very hard to move an offset flail mower. Now I have a 30' gooseneck with the full 102" of deck width and all is well again after spending more money of course.
 

jajiu

Active member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3560 HSTC, Grader, Backhoe, Snow Plow, Pallet Forks
Jun 5, 2016
456
112
43
74
Rowley, Massachusetts
Of course, it's always about the money. No matter what you do, it ends up costing more money on unexpected circumstances. Trailer plate went from $100 to $200. Can't wait to see my excise tax that use to be $5.