Kurtee you are not getting what I am saying- Its a trust factor-if the tech who is doing the work doesnt care about his job and how he does it- then the job comes out wrong and poorly done ( as for your comment about some people arent worth dealing with) I would like to see you buy any tractor or truck and have warranty or recall work done and have it come back scratched more miles on it and done half assed I would think you would be upset-or maybe I am wrong and you just dont care about your equipment. I fix alot of other mechanics jobs that were not done right- and it still amazes me that they still have a job.
Kubota hst recall update
- Thread starter Fat Tony
- Start date
I don't know about PA, but in TN there are specific Lemon Law criteria. I had a vehicle with electrical issues. The dealer would fix it, but the problem would come back. After the third go round, I told them it was a lemon and I wanted a new truck. Of course they laughed, but after their lawyer, my lawyer and an arbitrator talked for 30 minutes, they ordered the new truck and took mine back. Sometimes you have to force the issue, but only if it meets the criteria. You may want to check into PA lemon laws, it's usually pretty straight forward on what gets deemed a lemon and what doesn't. Good luck either way.
+100 on that.If someone actually gets their dealer to buy their tractor back at the price they paid, please post it on here. I would like to stop renting things and start buying from them instead!
I think most states are very similar with their lemon laws. 3 strikes kind of thing. You have to give them a chance. And then they will prorate the value of the vehicle by age and mileage. A coworker of mine went through this with their Dodge Durango. It had 6k miles on it and developed some kind of gremlinesqe electrical problem where the windows would roll themselves down whenever they felt like it. After 3 tries, Chrysler bought it back at a prorated amount considering the mileage.
I have a MX4800 with 46 hours on it. I live 3 hours from my dealer and would need to leave it for 2 weeks so I would need to take two trips or 12 hours of driving pulling a tractor at a significant expense to me. Yes, I can find a closer dealer that would do the work.
What upsets me most is the way Kubota has handled this. They won't talk directly to the customer and everything needs to go through the dealer. The dealer that I purchased from has some incentive/loyalty to me but the other dealer has his own customers to service first.
They can't even give a firm date when the repair parts will be available!!! What repair parts? they claimed the problem is a mis-torqued bolt in HST.
Very disappointing lack of customer service and acceptance of responsibility for a problem caused by the manufacturer not the dealer or end user.
Maybe I should look at Mahindra?
What upsets me most is the way Kubota has handled this. They won't talk directly to the customer and everything needs to go through the dealer. The dealer that I purchased from has some incentive/loyalty to me but the other dealer has his own customers to service first.
They can't even give a firm date when the repair parts will be available!!! What repair parts? they claimed the problem is a mis-torqued bolt in HST.
Very disappointing lack of customer service and acceptance of responsibility for a problem caused by the manufacturer not the dealer or end user.
Maybe I should look at Mahindra?
Kubota, like nearly all other manufacturers, shields its service (and sales) representatives from customers.
Like you, I do not like this.
It will be interesting to hear what Mahinda does.
SDT
tmstractor
New member
Equipment
MX5200HST ,6FT Til,,6ft Rake, 6ft BB, 6ft Flail Mow,PH Dig, Brush HOG,PForks
My MX5200 just came back from the dealer yesterday on the recall. They said the parts are some gaskets and "o" rings needed when splitting the tractor apart to check bolt torque.
I wouldn’t be thrilled about my new 5460 being torn down and put back together with 140 hours on it. I luckily missed it by 5 units. I highly doubt you will get a new tractor. My plan if my number came up was if it became a problem I would have traded it in. Luckily I have an awesome dealer that is customer service friendly and has been in business for years. I have been a mechanic for several years and understand The concerns. Give them a chance, they may surprise you. As far as Mihindra and kioti, I know people with both units and they are nice machines until they break. There is a shop down the street that has has a kioti there for 4 weeks waiting on parts, mihindra seems to have several electronic issues. But none of them are perfect not even Kubota. If I were to change brands I would go green just for part availability, same reason I went with Kubota. I looked at them all before I made a decision and how I made my choice is by looking at parts available for older machines. Kubota and deer seemed to be the 2 with readily available parts for machines 20 plus years old. I looked at some machines that are red I couldn’t even buy a clutch for a 2004 unit without it being a refurb clutch and pressure plate. Just my 2 cents. I’m no genius and don’t claim to be.
Oh yea I understand more than you will ever know. I also understand the dealer end and some people are not worth the time.
Same reason I have and keep mine. Just because they are early 2000's, I can still get any part I require from Kubota and usually within a week or less.
Kubota spent a lot of time and money perfecting their parts warehousing and distribution system but unlike Deere, they don't get in your pocket nearly as bad. I have some green stuff and Deere is extremely proud of replacement parts.
it's unfortunate that an assembly line forgot to check the torque on those bolts. It's also unfortunate if you choose to ignore it and they come out, it basically destroys the entire HST assembly, rendering the tractor useless, well, unless you want to use it to run a stationary generator or pto pump (where the tractor just never moves).
Lemon laws (at least here) only apply to motor vehicles. Tractors are not considered motor vehicles, thus they are exempt. Every state is different so check yours.
Years back there was a recall on the smaller standard L series had to do with the pto over-run "clutch" assembly. Weren't a lot of them, but kubota sent factory techs (ours were japanese) to do them on-site, at our dealer. They did 4 one day, 4 the next and 3 on the last day they were there. Of course we're talking about a much less involved job and they had 5 guys working on one tractor, so they had them split, fixed, and reassembled in no time. The way the Grand L & MX HST recall works is that they pay a certain amount of labor and then parts (plus any incentives that might be applicable) to do it. Normally that's one tech that does the job, sometimes he's gotta get help from a second. I'm out of town and looked at another kubota shop (here) and they really aren't set up to do them, yet. THey've got to order some jacks, splitting stand equipment, hoist, and a few other things, and all that stuff is on hold due to Corona (like everything else) so they're stuck. They're probably going to miss out on a substantial incentive because of the amount of time that it takes to get all the stuff they need.
Sadly, this is a part of dealer work. No matter how well equipped your shop is, it seems like you never have the tool you need, and the boss ain't gonna buy it because it's a one or two time a year use, and sits the rest of the time, that and it costs money. Some of these tools are really expensive (tens of thousands). The place I worked for had $762,000 worth of special tools alone, not counting each tech's regular tools, in my case $23,700 worth (and that's a lot of harbor freight stuff, mix and match-not a lot of name brand). So as you can see there's a lot of challenges facing the techs, dealers, and KTC right now, and it's not getting any better. A big challenge for the local (to me) dealer is that they have had record months from March until present, and they're not really set up for the amount of business they've been seeing. I mean that's great and all, but it also means that there are backlogs, delays, and backorders. If you combine it all together, it can sometimes turn into a big mess.
It is exactly the same way in automotive dealers. Been there, done that. THe difference is that with cars, they are more or less essential meaning that there is a distribution center on every corner and a part is available almost immediately. Secondly car dealers pay their techs a LOT better (WAY better!!) in most cases--and the better paid techs are the ones who take the most pride in their work. Tractor shop? $12.00/hr and that's the kind of work that a $12.00/hr tech turns out, cheap, fast but not good (usually). There are exceptions. And car dealers have a much higher margin, so what they are getting for a new car is a whole lot more than what they paid, where in the tractor business, 10-12% is average, and frankly isn't enough to pay all the bills that their customer base expects them to have. They're expecting a 100,000 sq-ft facility with 25 of each of a full line in stock at all times, and to be able to get service RFN, and parts immediately. It just ain't happening like the car/truck industry is. It should be, though, and dealers can easily put themselves above the rest with an investment--and therein lies the problem.
I have worked at a place (not a kubota dealer) where "good enough" was fine with the boss. He didn't want to put anything into the business, but had no problem investing a ton of the business income into his own personal payroll. That's his choice and I respected that 100%, much the same as I did the similar when I had my own place. But there comes a time, and Kubota is really pushing ALL dealers, that they've got to poop or get off the pot--which is happening now. That's why you're seeing some of the smaller mom-and-pop dealers go away. They got off the pot. Exactly the same as car dealers do every so often, you either invest in your program, or you go away.
I will say, Deere isn't much better, and Deere started all the same things Kubota's doing now, about 20 years ago (remember when they started selling mowers at Home Depot??--I remember it well), BUT, I do know that Deere's parts ordering system and vehicle ordering system is a little more organized than Kubota's is, but I also remember when Deere's was piss-poor, they had growing pains too just like Kubota is now.
Lemon laws (at least here) only apply to motor vehicles. Tractors are not considered motor vehicles, thus they are exempt. Every state is different so check yours.
Years back there was a recall on the smaller standard L series had to do with the pto over-run "clutch" assembly. Weren't a lot of them, but kubota sent factory techs (ours were japanese) to do them on-site, at our dealer. They did 4 one day, 4 the next and 3 on the last day they were there. Of course we're talking about a much less involved job and they had 5 guys working on one tractor, so they had them split, fixed, and reassembled in no time. The way the Grand L & MX HST recall works is that they pay a certain amount of labor and then parts (plus any incentives that might be applicable) to do it. Normally that's one tech that does the job, sometimes he's gotta get help from a second. I'm out of town and looked at another kubota shop (here) and they really aren't set up to do them, yet. THey've got to order some jacks, splitting stand equipment, hoist, and a few other things, and all that stuff is on hold due to Corona (like everything else) so they're stuck. They're probably going to miss out on a substantial incentive because of the amount of time that it takes to get all the stuff they need.
Sadly, this is a part of dealer work. No matter how well equipped your shop is, it seems like you never have the tool you need, and the boss ain't gonna buy it because it's a one or two time a year use, and sits the rest of the time, that and it costs money. Some of these tools are really expensive (tens of thousands). The place I worked for had $762,000 worth of special tools alone, not counting each tech's regular tools, in my case $23,700 worth (and that's a lot of harbor freight stuff, mix and match-not a lot of name brand). So as you can see there's a lot of challenges facing the techs, dealers, and KTC right now, and it's not getting any better. A big challenge for the local (to me) dealer is that they have had record months from March until present, and they're not really set up for the amount of business they've been seeing. I mean that's great and all, but it also means that there are backlogs, delays, and backorders. If you combine it all together, it can sometimes turn into a big mess.
It is exactly the same way in automotive dealers. Been there, done that. THe difference is that with cars, they are more or less essential meaning that there is a distribution center on every corner and a part is available almost immediately. Secondly car dealers pay their techs a LOT better (WAY better!!) in most cases--and the better paid techs are the ones who take the most pride in their work. Tractor shop? $12.00/hr and that's the kind of work that a $12.00/hr tech turns out, cheap, fast but not good (usually). There are exceptions. And car dealers have a much higher margin, so what they are getting for a new car is a whole lot more than what they paid, where in the tractor business, 10-12% is average, and frankly isn't enough to pay all the bills that their customer base expects them to have. They're expecting a 100,000 sq-ft facility with 25 of each of a full line in stock at all times, and to be able to get service RFN, and parts immediately. It just ain't happening like the car/truck industry is. It should be, though, and dealers can easily put themselves above the rest with an investment--and therein lies the problem.
I have worked at a place (not a kubota dealer) where "good enough" was fine with the boss. He didn't want to put anything into the business, but had no problem investing a ton of the business income into his own personal payroll. That's his choice and I respected that 100%, much the same as I did the similar when I had my own place. But there comes a time, and Kubota is really pushing ALL dealers, that they've got to poop or get off the pot--which is happening now. That's why you're seeing some of the smaller mom-and-pop dealers go away. They got off the pot. Exactly the same as car dealers do every so often, you either invest in your program, or you go away.
I will say, Deere isn't much better, and Deere started all the same things Kubota's doing now, about 20 years ago (remember when they started selling mowers at Home Depot??--I remember it well), BUT, I do know that Deere's parts ordering system and vehicle ordering system is a little more organized than Kubota's is, but I also remember when Deere's was piss-poor, they had growing pains too just like Kubota is now.
Like most things, once sold, no exchange. I have a Generac Generator that after almost a year, the motor died. Their rep. in my area came out and ended up re-building the motor. Lasted only about 4 months. The sent a new motor and replaced the original one. That one died in 8 months. Two more replacements later the rep. wanted to replace the unit. I offered to pay for an up-grade to a more powerful unit and was denied. Finally a new replacement motor and it has been running fine for 3 years now. They must have found out what was wrong with their motors.I just heard from Kubota they told me that the parts are coming in 2 weeks- I told them that I wanted them to take this tractor back and give me a new one with all of the same options- cause we all know that the tractor will never be the same once they remove the cab and split the unit in half. I have been in the automotive business for more than 38 years and if they are anything like car dealers then beware.
I agree with everything that you say, Lugbolt, except the margin comments. The margins at auto dealerships are very close these days, usually considerably lower than that at Kubota dealerships.
SDT
Assembly lines are comprised of humans and robots and the robots are controlled by humans.
Not that the offending bolt wasn't torqued, just not torqued to spec.
Should have been caught early on but wasn't. I bet the incorrect torque value was dialed into the assembly tool and somehow overlooked when the tools were checked, which they do (or should) after so many hours.
I have to lay the blame on Kubota QC.
Not that the offending bolt wasn't torqued, just not torqued to spec.
Should have been caught early on but wasn't. I bet the incorrect torque value was dialed into the assembly tool and somehow overlooked when the tools were checked, which they do (or should) after so many hours.
I have to lay the blame on Kubota QC.
I’m always a bit astonished at the attitude some consumers take in expressing “worry” or “concern” about how “little” a dealer/seller makes on margin. Why? Because the consumer paid large money for a product that the seller/dealer promoted as the best product and the best value.... The consumer has every right to demand that the product measure up to the wonderful claims made by the manufacturer and the mfr’s representatives ... from the CEO to the dealer to the assy-line-worker to the service-dept-technician. Thats what I PAID for.
No sympathy from me when their bragging turns out to be Less than promised.
if I had one (I don't), I would trust my local dealer 100% on the teardown and re-assembly, no qualms on my end. I've been in their shop many times and seen Kubota's and New Holland's completely torn apart and all over the benches. They too, lift the cabs straight up with an overhead crane and let them hang there while they dissect and repair an issue.
Kind of similar to the newer Ford Diesel pickup trucks... Cab off to repair the engine and transmission.
Was there yesterday, so far they have done 3 of them.
Kind of similar to the newer Ford Diesel pickup trucks... Cab off to repair the engine and transmission.
Was there yesterday, so far they have done 3 of them.
It WILL be the same if your dealer has good technicians.I just heard from Kubota they told me that the parts are coming in 2 weeks- I told them that I wanted them to take this tractor back and give me a new one with all of the same options- cause we all know that the tractor will never be the same once they remove the cab and split the unit in half. I have been in the automotive business for more than 38 years and if they are anything like car dealers then beware.
A am in Pittsburgh and looking to purchasing a Kubota . Maybe your dealer could become my dealer if not to far away. The one near me with the most inventory does not have a very good reputation. Any advice?